posted
Hey Fellow Letterheads, Is it just me, or are any of you good folks looking forward with eager anticipation to the sudden and hopefully final decline in popularity of this farce commonly known as "rap style music"? Disco died, so would it be too much to ask for "rap" to suffer a similar fate?
It's a music style that I've never appreciated, enjoyed, or saw the point of. There are enough rapes, cop killings, pimps, whores, and muggings in everyday real-life situations, and while these may be a reality for some, I have never fully identified with that culture enough so that I see it as an expression of my lifestyle. I've often wondered how does a middle-class caucasian who's twenty-something, feel the need to buy this material, and play it on their in-car boom boxes loudly enough to impair their hearing. Perhaps it's their way of "identifying" with those individuals who crank out this material as THEIR form of self-expression.
The irony of it all, is that once "success" finds a few of these rappers, they then have the financial wherewithall to escape from that venue that gave their "musical expression" authenticity. Either that, or they become victims of drive-by shootings, when they make their triumphant return to "the hood".
Here's hoping that 2006 will become the year that "rap" goes the way of disco, and this soon-to-become geezer will find it's replacement somewhat more tolerable than the current "crap".
-------------------- Ken Henry Henry & Henry Signs London, Ontario Canada (519) 439-1881 e-mail: kjmlhenry@rogers.com
Why do I get all those on-line offers to sell me Viagara, when the only thing hardening is my arteries ? Posts: 2684 | From: London,Ontario, Canada | Registered: Feb 1999
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It's all marketing Ken. Whoever's the "baddest", most extreme, whatever because nowadays it doesn't take talent nor a real message.
I've listened to rap in the past. Public Enemy and Run DMC who put out music with substance and interesting composition, not just whining. Beastie Boys followed up and just put the fun back into it. Other than that, it's all crap. Shoot, from time to time I still play those old groups - that stuff is 20+ years old, it's still good, the message still applies today too. "Classic Rap"? Nothing today holds a candle to it.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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...Back in the'50s, the "squares" didn't like ROCK and ROLL, or The Beatles in the '60s either.
...I remember that back in 1963, the fact that my parents thought that the Beatles were too hairy and "disgusting" only made them that much more appealing to me.
...A big part of RAPs appeal is that it bugs old and/or white people.
posted
oh now celine can really sing i just cant stand to watch her sing. Mariah can also sing she just aint cute no more.
rap will be here for a while, after all we are moving towards a black society. dont think so? mcdonalds commercials, 7up, coke, video games....its all about hip hop and being bad, it sucks!
and thanks to our wonderful welfare syytem here in alabama, where you aint gots to work no more forever, its here to stay down here
boy i did not mean to get off on that
-------------------- You ever notice how easily accessible people are when they are requiring your services but once they get invoice you can't reach them anymore
posted
Gee, I wish Ted Nugent would participate on this forumn, I'm sure he would have a thing or two to say! In fact, a few years ago someone posted a series of quotes by him, it sure would fit here fine. Happy New Years!
posted
HIP HOP is goona be dead soon too. Movign to the black society? yes it was,, but as soon as the main stream start to use it,, it goes dead..
Disco turned into RAP. what will RAP turn into??
-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5274 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
Gee Bob, next you'll have us all believing that white people can also dance.
-------------------- Ken Henry Henry & Henry Signs London, Ontario Canada (519) 439-1881 e-mail: kjmlhenry@rogers.com
Why do I get all those on-line offers to sell me Viagara, when the only thing hardening is my arteries ? Posts: 2684 | From: London,Ontario, Canada | Registered: Feb 1999
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posted
Ken, I'm thinking this discussion came about because you saw the ball drop last night, and then were victim to some of the "music" performances of the evening ... as we briefly were.
Geeez .... that was bad. There were five of us watching that last night, and the consensus was that it really sucked!
We came to the conclusion that they must be wannabees waiting to be "discovered", because maybe anyone whose made it, and were really good wouldn't want to be working on New Year's Eve? I dunno.
Likewise, I can't see the draw that Mariah seems to have either. I agree, she's got a good voice, but I can't seem to get into her music. Since it appears that I'm in the minority on that because of her popularity, I keep trying to appreciate her music ... but it's just not doing anything for me.
Nettie
-------------------- "When Love and Skill Work Together ... Expect a Masterpiece"
posted
If you've heard one Rap, you've heard them both. I'm not sure that Rap & HipHop are disinterments of Dumb Disco, altho the thump-thump-thump essence and absence of musical content makes them seem bastard twins. Rap & HH are actually a kind of folk music, I hear. People invented the noise in their own home recording studios and peddled it by hand and word of mouth. After it caught on, the mass'market hustlers swooped in, and so of course they will beat it to death. I wish they'd swoop in and beat it faster.
-------------------- Bruce Williams Lexington KY Posts: 945 | From: Lexington, KY, USA | Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
I haven't attended the School of Rock, so my dates could be off, but rap and hiphop have been around in one form or another for over 2 decades. Disco was a flash in the pan in comparison. Personally I don't see a relationship between the two. As much as I'd love to see it go, hiphop is going to be around a while.
America has a fascination with gangsters, and continues to adopt their fashions and mannerisms. I never thought I'd see the day when upper middle class white girls would be walking around malls dressed like OGs from Compton.
Saggin' and baggin' fashion influences are even sneaking their way into the closets of the soccer moms. Low slung pants on a woman are not flattering, but they are seen everywhere. The plumbers crack quickly appears as a mom reaches to tie her kid's shoe. Ugh! Somehow it became popular to look like a slacker with pants falling down and a 5-inch band of underwear sticking out of the top - or a thong. Times do change, but not always for the better.
It's fine for the youth of America to look rediculous in their quest for identity and self expression, but do their parents have to join them.
My mind wanders. And that's not a good thing, 'cause it's too small to be out there alone. Posts: 3129 | From: Tooele, UT | Registered: Mar 2005
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Long live disco! Actually rap / hip-hop are not going anywhere, they actually even invented their own musical instrument, the turntable. Sorry to say it is here to stay. You can only hope that something else comes along and becomes more popular, maybe R&B....
-------------------- Ken McTague, Concept Signs 57 Bridge St. (route 107) Salem MA 01970 1-978-745-5800 conceptsign@yahoo.com http://www.pinheadlounge.com/CaptainKen
---------------------------------
"A wise man once said that, or was it a wise guy?" Posts: 2425 | From: Salem, MA | Registered: Apr 1999
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posted
Yea, I gotta agree with Kissy, the term rap music is an oxymoron at best.
I like a lot of different types of music, rap isn't one of them. I think the messages a lot of the songs put out are just wrong. I think rap music is, in part , responsible for the cheapening of human life in society today. If you are gonna play it so loud that folks three blocks away can hear it, PUH-LEASE invest in a decent system and do take the time to listen to what you are blasting outside your car. To my ears it sounds like crap on it's own..... the quarter panel rattling it's a$$ off doesn't help. All that said, I believe anybody has the right to listen to whatever flips thier switch. Me, I tend to be grumpy enough on my own, I don't need anybody yelling hate lyrics at me, whining at me, growling at me, crying about cheating or in any way going on about how miserable life is treating them. Gimmie some happy music.......I wanna dance!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If it doesn't make me move or want to smile, I'm hittin' the button.
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
quote:Originally posted by Curtis hammond: Disco turned into RAP. what will RAP turn into??
Rap will "turn into" country, meaning Country music will replace it as the next fad. It's already happening as it gains popularity at an amazing rate. Country music has been easing in on the Rock genre for a long time since the wanna-be rocker Garth B couldn't rock enough to make it so he went into country, then later going as far as creating a whole other identity trying to make it in Rock again.
If you pay attention and really listen to some of the newest country country music, you will be hard-pressed to hear much difference between it and some of the softer rock and R&B. You take that "twang" out of the Country music and it sounds *exactly* like R&B, Pop and Rock, especially with the female artists. Well, considering it all stems from the same exact spot, Blues and Bluegrass, it should all sound pretty similar.
What I can not stand more than anything else is the Marriachi music the idiots around here like to blast in their vehicles. Every time I hear it I just wanna break out the rollerskates and Duck Dance!!
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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I'm sick and tired of seeing these scurrilous cockroaches of society crawl out of their slimey crack dens and get rich by degrading women, promoting drug use, and sending messages to equally cerebrally challenged nitwits that law enforcement officers are the enemy and deserve to be shot.
I don't mind a little youthful rebellion, that goes with the territory.
But c'mon! I gotta believe that most black women must be repelled watching these rap videos in which scurilous "ho's" are thrusting their "T and A" all over the place while the "homey's" talk about how they plan to abuse them for strictly sexual gratification.
That's the message - that women are to be gang-banged and kicked out the door till the next urge and extra 2 minutes of spare time requires their presence again.
And I'm sad to say that there are enough idiots in suburban America (and the world for that matter) that have jumped on this wagon of dung - abandoning their upbringing, unintelligible slang and speech patterns, and culture and opting instead for gold teeth, baggy-crotched pants, and all the body-manipulating parifanalia that will ensure they are never employed, except by the local crack-pimps.
Here's how sorry it has gotten:
My kids told me just yesterday that a rap-loving girl at their school has bragged about all the 12 piercings she has along with the multiple tatoos - some, which must have been applied illegally on this 16 year old girl.
She seems proud to have flashed a few of the guys her pierced *nips* and told them that her goal for employment is to become a stripper.
Wow.....all this in an otherwise attractive girl who is graduating from a small suburban high school class of no more than 70 students.
I'm really starting to believe that there should be a very strict test a couple must pass before they are allowed to bear children.....because obviously, there are a lot of parents who are MIA.
"I'm sick and tired of seeing these cockroaches of society crawl out of their slimey crack-in-the-walls and get rich by degrading women, and promoting drug use, and sending messages to equally cerebrally challenged nitwits that law enforcement officers are the enemy and deserve to be shot.
I don't mind a little youthful rebellion, that goes with the territory.
But c'mon! I gotta believe that most black women must be repelled watching these rap videos in which scurilous "ho's" are thrusting their "T and A" all over the place while the "homey's" talk about how they plan to abuse them for strictly sexual gratification.
And I'm sad to say that there are enough idiots in suburban America (and the world for that matter) that have jumped on this wagon of dung - abandoning their upbringing, speech patterns, and culture and opting instead for gold teeth, baggy-crotched pants, and all the body-manipulating parifanalia that will ensure they are never employed, except by the local crack-pimps."
Well said, Todd! The words come so close to what the kids will hear from me when the subject of rap comes up for discussion.. it's been burning me up to see innocent kids being used for profit as business moguls make out in a profitable business; not all of the youth listens to this, but it's hard to avoid it as it's blasted all over the place these days. There are no ordinances for noise, or they are not enforced most of the time. I wouldn't mind if an R&B was just that: rythym and blues. That's what the kids like, just don't stick crappy lyrics in it.
The kids today may equate the rebellion to what they absorb through the media and experiences in their lives to normal rebellion of kids, but it is far from it. There is always going to be a struggle of youth versus authority, but now, I don't hear any messages of social issue reform for the "better" in this rap, as much as the older days of what we listened to. These hellraiser rappers know the kids are looking for acceptance and answers to their questions and taking the opportunity to lead them to a toxic way of thinking.
And, it's not just a phase, in most cases, as our youth can't get away from the heavy advertising and food commercials as years ago never had this infiltrated in it. It's possible to avoid at home, but when they are around their peers there's so much pressure and exposure to be cool.
I have to say that when the kids hear from the media about the corruption of people they're supposed to trust, such as : priest abuse, the pharmaceutical companies and doctors going crooked, the high rate of domestic abuse and politicians lying and breaking the law, they are more apt to not trust their authority also. There are parents and administrators that are out there trying to stand up for the family values and emphasize that these are still here, and not too judge the mistakes of others before them, but to accept the love and concern of those who are trying to keep the family together. My youngest son wanted to know if it were true that President Clinton actually smoked pot. His teacher and I told him to write to him and ask him. Instead of getting a straight answer he got a letter back stating what the President's cabinet's efforts to eliminate drug use in our country today. He never got his question answered. I tried to explain to my son how politics worked but that was a disappointment when the entire school was waiting for an honest answer with explanation of maybe a mistake or justification. See, the kids just wanted an answer. I have to say it didn't help, so I explained that sometimes it can be admitted on the media but not in writing and that it is better to do what is good for himself at his age and obey the law. He was 10 years old.
There is much our society and family can do to work with these kids coming up, to teach them to forgive and let go so that they are not feeling so hopeless; to teach them as much as they are able; to emphasize the positive possibilities.
I expose my youngest to other types of music, as we play old tunes here, instrumentals and a variety of music, as do my two older children. My oldest son (30)has always liked Mariah Carey, and, we are all really loves comedy (which can be a bit off color), but evenso he tries to set a passive, cheerful example for his younger brother. My oldest daughter has been into Garth Brooks and Kenny Chesney, etc. and keeps it country lately. I tell my son, about me liking the music and instrumentals of the music instead of the lyrics as he always challenges me about the Beatles, etc. That's basically what I liked about them anyway.
You've probably noticed that the popular talk shows when interviewing some of these rappers, the rappers admit that they know it is harmful to these kids and invokes violent behavior. Some admit they don't really believe violence is cool, and the putdown of women is what they practice etc, but are in it for the money, at any cost to our youth.
That's so obvious, but a lot of our youth are numb to the truth since it is all around us. I do not accept it, and have voiced that if they did the music and beat, just they should leave out the words and they may have something. It just horrifies me to see rappers screaming murder and hate, and creativeness sucked out of them at alarming rates it's been allowed to do so. Down with the crap, I say.
As far as the justification of "free speech" to perform this form of rap, to me, is about as far away from free speech; the way I strongly feel about this, rap, in fact, has a reverse discrimination effect on what we would like to have as the freedom to preserve our safety and freedom to be safe, mentally and physically.
I am all for the kids to have freedom of deciding what their choices and preferences in life will be and don't consider myself an ultra conservative by any means, but, I think our youth are being robbed of their freedom to have many choices with this overriding so much of our culture, the freedoms that our families have fought for throughout the years.
[ January 01, 2006, 07:53 PM: Message edited by: Deb Fowler ]
-------------------- Deb Fowler
"It's kind of fun to do the impossible - Walt Disney (1901-1966) Posts: 5373 | From: Loves Park, Illinois | Registered: Aug 1999
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posted
BOB Dylan & BOB Marley, are the only Rappers that I Remember. CrazyJack
-------------------- Jack Wills Studio Design Works 1465 E.Hidalgo Circle Nye Beach / Newport, OR Posts: 2914 | From: Rocklin, CA. USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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posted
...looks like I'm going to be in the minority here, but I will concede one point: Rap is not music!
...it's poetry!
...& it is more an extension of reggae & african dub style then any influences I've seen mentioned on this thread so far.
If you judge American society by our front page news, you would probably think it's almost all bad, because the media hype tends to focus on that. IMO the same is true for rap. People who exercise a legitimate right to want nothing to do with it, will end up only being aware of it from the media hype & would therefore judge it without a balanced & informed reference point.
If anyone wants to be more informed, you could read about Kool Herc to get a better understanding it's roots. Also if anyone wants a more comprehensive look at it's history you might find this site informative.
posted
I'm with you Doug, Hip Hop is poetry. Rap is something you do. It's more of a verb than a noun. Hip hop is the actual artform though. That stuff you seethat is popular nowadays is not Hip hop, it is club music, Party mausic, drug dealers, hustlers, pimpe , etc. it's not really what Hip hop was about in the early days of (like doug mentioned) Kool Herc , Grandmaster Flash (who was a pioneer of turning a turntable and mixer into an instrument)and then came BDP and EPMD Public enemy , MC Lyte , De La Soul, these groups were not gangsters and drug pushing , pimp & hoes type glorifiers. There is Hip Hop (for those that don't know) With extremely high levels of musical and creative talent. it's just the "crap" that you see, because generally, nowadays, peoples minds are in the gutter and the garbage is what sells, so that is what they promote. I grew up on Hip Hop, since I was 11 years old. I don't even listen to this new garbage though, It makes me sick. but , just to add to the beginning of this topic, Hip Hop is not going anywhere. To some people Hip hop is like a religion and the lyrics of the rappers of the past are like scriptures. and oh , yeah, White, Black,Aisian, Latino, Arab, Pakistani, Eskimo, etc. etc. All of them are into Hip Hop. It's not a black thing, for millions of people (or more) It's a global thing.
posted
I was going to say something similar to Doug but thought it would be drowned out by what people think is stereotypical. I'm pretty tripped out Doug mentioned Kool Herc and Reggae dub style, I think most rap is firnly grounded in it's roots and the few tunes that promote lifstyle is only a small part of it, albeit the more popular right now. How many of us tried to tick our parents off with what we wear or listen too...I drove my parents crazy, my kids are driving me crazy. Rap or Hip Hop will have a difficult time going away anytime soon since it dominates mainstream culture and the Billboard hot 100, just as much as alternative does with other young people. There is good hip-hop and bad rap music. There is the thug aspect and there is the conscientious hip hop, turntablism (if you thing scratching is a no talent instrument you should rent the movie "Scratch" or listen to an Incredible Skratch Picklz, Rob Swift, Qbert or Mix Master Mike record)neo soul and spoken hip hop like Ursula Rucker. I think most mainstream rap is catering to a lifestyle I find repulsive, but there is another part that deals with real life inner city issues, politics and having a good time and a great groove without resorting to cutting down women and using drugs. I personally think music should be an upbuilding thing, I don't get Country music, mexican tejano, or 70's Rock. A lot of it lyrically has just as much drug, drinking and sexual references to rival modern rap, but there are some good country and rock songs too. I can't imagine most of you dancing to old funk like "Atomic Dog" by George Clinton, "Pumpin it Up" by the P. Funk All Stars or modern hip hop like "Thats Golden" by Jurassic 5 but I can't do the 2 step boogie either, nor do I want to, but I dig people having a good time and if that floats your boat then more power to you. We are grandparents and me and my wife like Hip Hop and funk, would I let my kids listen to the bad stuff? No way....that is a parental choice that should be a no brainer, but my kids also don't listen to Marilyn Manson, Slipknot, Green Day, Kid Rock or any of a number of rock bands either. To me the problem is not the music, it's the parents buying the music or letting the kids bring it into the home or letting them out of the house with baggy clothes, or goth, or "emo" looking.
On the issue of disco being dead....in the mainstream it may have died in 1980, but it morphed into high energy, house music and various forms of synth music after 1980. Raves grew out of them and club culture is huge in most major cities. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_music
-------------------- Rick Chavez Hemet, CA Posts: 1538 | From: Hemet,CA U.S.A. | Registered: Jun 2001
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As disco morphed, it also took influences from the hiphop DJ's and their "samples". Where other musical forms were content to feature a drum & bass heavy break as a bridge between a verse & chorus... newer forms of "dance" music took that ingredient & built the entire song on top of it.
I've been a drummer for 35 years, & I started playing professionally 30 years ago. I'm not an exceptional musician, but I took a bit of natural talent & built on it just enough to have experienced the creative satisfaction of entertaining people sporadically over the years.
I played Friday night at a party for 50 or 60 people mostly close to my age. The music ranged from blues standards, & classic rock covers to freeform jams built off the funk, fusion & psychedelic roots of the various other players.
Most folks there were content to eat, chat, & watch the fireworks... but I noticed when several folks finally began dancing was a jam where I took the traditional bass drum beat from the 2 & 4 & doubled it up to hitting every quarter note on this one driving groove we set up.
No matter how much interesting, talented & cool stuff you layer over the top... there is something primal & captivating about a basic, uncomplicated rhythem. I swear it is almost like voodoo or hypnosis to see how consistently it grabs people.
I was discussing this long held observation with the bass player afterwords & was not surprised tonight to read the following quote (from Rick's link)identifying this trait in "dance music"
quote:House music is uptempo music for dancing and has a comparatively narrow tempo range, generally falling between 118 beats per minute and 135.
Far and away the most important element of the house drumbeat is the (usually very strong, synthesized, and heavily equalized) kick drum pounding on every quarter note of the 4/4 bar, often having a "dropping" effect on the dancefloor.
posted
And the really weird thing is that there are people who insist that Sinatra and Elvis could sing! There are people that liked the Carpenters, there are people that care about Country and Western! The musical tastes of other people is life's second biggest joke.
-------------------- Arthur Vanson Bucks Signs Chesham, Buckinghamshire, England arthur@buckssigns.co.uk -------------------- Posts: 805 | From: Chesham, Bucks, England | Registered: Mar 2002
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Each to his own, but I agree with Mike- there's NO need for degrading messages, whether in 'songs' or wherever...
-------------------- "Stewey" on chat
"...there are no limits when you aim for perfection..." Jonathan Livingston Seagull Posts: 7014 | From: Highgrove via Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia | Registered: Dec 2002
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quote:Disco turned into RAP. what will RAP turn into?? [/QB]
Reggaeton is the wave of the future...
You know, I like almost all types of music (no, not rap). I have my radios tuned to http://www.buzzrocks.com , & to tell you the truth, I've noticed some of it does promote drug use, violence, even suicide. I think we've all coined Rap as a "bad", but we gotta look all around us.
& I totally agree with Mike, its all marketing.
[ January 02, 2006, 07:04 AM: Message edited by: Felix Marcano ]
-------------------- Felix Marcano PuertoRicoSigns.Com Luquillo, PR
Work hard, party like a tourist! Posts: 2274 | From: Luquillo, Puerto Rico, USA | Registered: Nov 2000
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posted
Thanks to that beat Doug, We got rithum from sink-O-payshun....
Right On? (Bo Diddly)
CrazyJack
-------------------- Jack Wills Studio Design Works 1465 E.Hidalgo Circle Nye Beach / Newport, OR Posts: 2914 | From: Rocklin, CA. USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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Well I'm with you all on the rap Crap but there is a whole new bread of crap music that is mainly white. The new Punk. My daughters into it and talk about Garbage. 3 mins of nothing but screaming,****ing and Moaning and to tell the truth I would rater listen to Rap, that at least, I can understand the words.
What really scares me though is she can actually play this stuff on her Guitar and sounds like the rest of the stuff thats selling.. At least she moving towrds the Psychedely stuff and now wants a stand up Bass.. (Kinda reminds me of old Stray Cats stuff)
posted
hey...don't step on the Carpenters, Arthur!!! Lol!
I agree with you Mike, too. It is all about marketing, making the big buck. Too bad for our kids tho, huh?
I am not into rap or hip hop, but I have to confess that my boys got me into some "Ska" music, like the OC Supertones, Five Iron Frenzy, & the like. There is a little rap-type stuff thrown in here & there, but basically, it is happy sounding music played with a lot of trumpets. Kind of a mixture of jazz/raggae/punk stuff.
Anyone else ever listen to Ska music?
-------------------- The Word in Signs Bobbie Rochow Jamestown, PA 16134
724-927-6471
thewordinsigns@alltel.net Posts: 3485 | From: Jamestown, PA 16134 | Registered: Oct 2002
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I love ska, I've been a ska music fan since the late 70's. My favorite bands are The Specials, Selector, Body Snatchers, The Beat, Desmond Decker, Rico and Bad Manners. I like the newer stuff too. Me and my friends used to me "Modernists" (Mods for short) with the clothes, the scooters and music after punk got too commercialized.
-------------------- Rick Chavez Hemet, CA Posts: 1538 | From: Hemet,CA U.S.A. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Rick-Wow, I didn't know ska music was that old! I like some punk, like that old song "Should I stay or should I go?" Still gotta move when I hear it!
-------------------- The Word in Signs Bobbie Rochow Jamestown, PA 16134
724-927-6471
thewordinsigns@alltel.net Posts: 3485 | From: Jamestown, PA 16134 | Registered: Oct 2002
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