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OK so hindsight is 20-20, but I might have a solution to prevent what happened today. I was up on an aluminum extension ladder. Feet about 12 feet off the ground, concrete sidewalk below. The building I was leaning against has this false-front sort of design. The building really is only one story, but there is additional framing and T111 siding to make it look taller.
I guess there was a leak in this wall thing, as the siding was rotten, and not apparent from the ground. So I leaned my ladder against it, climbed up, and when I was up there, the top right corner of the ladder goes through the siding, and is buried. This of course causes the lower left corner to lift off the ground, as the ladder spins about 45 degrees. Change the lyrics, everybody sing along: "Oh what fun it is to ride on spinning lad-der" I always had a fear of hieghts, and this sort of thing doesn't help.
So I ever-so-CARE-fully lower myself to the ground, tell the store owner, and finish the job. I'm thinking that maybe a piece of wood or metal horizontally across the top of the ladder would prevent that. The idea being to make it wider than code distance for stud placement. Provided code was followed .
I'm aware of those metal bars which are similar to what I'm describing, that hold you away from the surface, but the problem I see there is that they too have 'legs' which could go through.
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
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James, Years ago an old signpainter was up on his ladder nailing some letters into a building, his ladder slid out from under him because of ice, he falls and broke his leg. He called me from the hospital to go finish the job which he never paid me for.
Nowdays I sub most installations out to a local shop and very seldom do it myself for this very reason. I can't afford the risk of injuring myself.
I'm not afraid of heights, I actually enjoy them, but not trying to grunt a 4x8 up a ladder with a cordless drill, tape measure, screws etc.
-------------------- Curt Stenz Graphics 700 Squirrel Lane Marathon, WI 54448 Posts: 594 | From: Marathon, WI 54448 | Registered: Dec 1998
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Haven't done an install in over 5 years and don't intend to do one in the future.
If an install is required and the client can't handle it then I add on the cost of a sub contractor to do the installation. Or I give them the name of someone who can do the istallation and they can negotiate that part of the job independantly.
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
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I do all my own installations. Actually still like doing them. Gets me out of the shop, and into the air. A friend of mine helps me when I need him, but I routinely install 4x8 mdo signs on buildings by myself. Slide that sucker right up the ladder. I use to be really afraid of heights, but after a few years of this, it gets easier. Tis hairy sometimes though. Havent had any mishaps to date.
-------------------- Maker of fine signs and other creative stuff. Located at 109 N. Cumberland ave. Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-837-0242 Posts: 4172 | From: Ages-Brookside, Ky. Up the Holler... | Registered: Jul 1999
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Hey I wanna be like Dave. . . . but, I'm in Deaton's camp . . .I enjoy certain installs more than others - all ladder werk suks - falls can be fatal - -although I'm guilty of not charging enuff for installs myself. For example last week had to install (2) 1'x5' Coroplast cover up signs on an old 1950's era electric sign hanging by rusty cables & old iron pipe, flag mount, bottom of sign 15' off sidewalk, in a pretty hairy part of downtown Memphis. Since I had a gravy install a coupla blocks away (mounting Coroplast signs on chest high glass with double-stik tape) I quoted $95 - not enuff considering I had to load & unload 24' extension ladder - plus 3M tape costs (roughly $15)- plus riskin my damn neck - I couldn't even reach the far end of sign that hung out over the street - had to git a 6' piece of PVC pipe to mash the outer corners down - it went okay - maybe 20 minutes on ladder - BTW this was probly 17 miles travel each way - hey John I did learn not to be haulin up MDO on ladders - .080 Aluminum is lighter -
-------------------- Carl Wood Olive Branch, Ms Posts: 1392 | From: Olive Branch,MS USA | Registered: Nov 1999
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Look at this! I'm not scared of heights......I'm PETRIFIED of heights. I can't even look up at tall things! These two guys put my wireless Internet in. I had a pole put in and they put an extension on it to clear my trees! Cars going by were stoping to look at this nut! They got it done!
-------------------- Tony Vickio The World Famous Vickio Signs 3364 Rt.329 Watkins Glen, NY 14891 t30v@vickiosigns.com 607-535-6241 http://www.vickiosigns.com Posts: 1063 | From: Watkins Glen, New York | Registered: Sep 2001
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You're only as safe as your surroundings. The ladder support 'arms' - meant to span windows - are the only way I go up! There are times that they do get in the way, but few and far between. It makes the top much more stable - and if the soffit gives way, you have that much more to keep you from going through and spinning. Additionally, if I'm by myself, I anchor the bottom rungs. If I'm on grass, I have a piece of rebar bent at the top I loop over the rung and drive into the ground. If I'm on concrete, if I can back my truck near enough so the bumper touches the ladder, I'm good. Otherwise, a couple of cinderblocks at the bottom to keep it from kicking are my piece of mind, even though they probably wouldn't do anything!
Rick
-------------------- Rick Tam Arte Design Studio Downingtown, PA milne2@msn.com Posts: 278 | From: Downingtown, PA | Registered: Apr 2004
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I'm with Curt also. Too many things can happen off a ladder. I used to do some crazy things way back when. I was one of the lucky ones. There was a signpainter in Memphis back in the eighties who went by the name of General Lee. He was working off a ladder alongside a busy road. I think he was using jacks and a walkboard, but anyways the ladder slipped, he fell and like that wasn't bad enough, he fell onto the street and got hit by a car He survived but was messed up for life.
I got rid of my walkboard shortly after that, my ladders went a few years later. If a stepladder won't reach it, I'll rent a lift or pass. I end up passing on a lot of wall jobs.
[ December 21, 2005, 11:37 AM: Message edited by: George Perkins ]
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
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Hindsight is great, isn't it? But maybe next time you need a ladder, you might consider a Little Giant or a Werner Multi-ladder. (they are nearly the same with slight differences; 1 being the Werner don't weigh as much) They both have the wider base which helps stabilty tremendously. Being heavily constructed, there's very little (if any) sway. You'll feel a whole lot safer on one compared to a regular extension. Add a Levelok leg extender and you've got it made. The Levelok has a multi-positionable foot which can grip, at least one leg, into ice. (it's not recommended to use 2 of these simultaneously on 1 ladder - except, if maybe non-extended, to dig into ice) Plus, the added weight helps stabilize it more.
I use my MT-22 mostly as a 10' step (9.6 actually). This is a 5-rung (when compacted) /side step-ladder. In its fully extended mode, it's appx. 19' long. I haven't used it as such since that length is a bear to maneuver. I don't have the leverage & the bigger sized ladder doesn't extend as easily (too heavy) as the 4-rungers they show on the info-mercials. But by removing the top portion, I still get a 14' (easier to move around) extension. If you'd prefer the added width on top too, then I'd suggest getting a 17' model; except, it's not really 17'. Expect it to be a couple feet less. They assume your body height will make up the difference.
They make bigger models also. There's a 26' model & there are bigger ones too. I don't see how anyone could manage these. Some of those bigger models look like you'd need a couple step-ladders just to reach the spring-loaded connectors midway up the ladder; & then the position moves & you'd need a walk plank to keep up with the movement. Now that I think of it, it probably takes 4 smaller ladders & 2 people, to raise the height.
No, I think the shorter ones are better. Either a 17' or a 22 should suffice.
For regular aluminum ex's, it's recommended to tie it to something up top (if possible) to keep 'm from moving (especially if it's windy). I've seen what happens when they're not.
-------------------- Bill Cosharek Bill Cosharek Signs N.Huntingdon,Pa
bcosharek@juno.com Posts: 703 | From: N.Huntingdon, Pa, USA | Registered: Dec 1999
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When doing any install you should always do a hazzard assessment and have a plan to ensure controls are in place. I know you can not see all hazzards, like the rotting wall under siding, but we can do our best to try to make our work go safely. I like Si Allens idea the best, a man lift does take alot of the worry out of working with heights.
quote: I'm thinking that maybe a piece of wood or metal horizontally across the top of the ladder would prevent that. The idea being to make it wider than code distance for stud placement. Provided code was followed
James, James, James....Code??? Do you not remember were we live ?! You'd be lucky if the building wasn't built with duck tape ...
-------------------- Snow's Sign Works 865-908-0076 snowman@planetc.com www.snowsigns.com
I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message... Posts: 1640 | From: Sevierville, TN | Registered: Jul 2005
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There are alot of new buildings out there that are very unsafe with a ladder, because there are foam trim pieces, cornices, fake columns, etc., that will dent or collapse under the weight of a man on a ladder. You could be paying for repairs for both you and the building ! They look like stucco and concrete, but they are just foam and are easily damaged.
-------------------- Jeff Ogden 8727 NE 68 Terr. Gainesville FL, 32609 Posts: 2138 | From: 8827 NE 68 Terr Gainesville Fl 32609 | Registered: Aug 2002
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me and si..ARE THE ONLY SMART ONES...we survived those "ladder years" and now KNOW BETTER!!!! i have 3 WERNER fiberglass stepladders. 6 FT which is new cause the 1st one broke when i was standing on the 3rd step when i was building a 8x10 leanto on the back of the house when we moved here. i fell no more then 3 ft(from where i was standing)my left leg went inside the ladder,where it opens, torn my shin open to the bone, i fell on my back, went out, must hit my head on the ground, and i had a cut on my back where i fell on a small piece of 4x4!!! i was 56 then..and relized i dont "bounce" like i used to!!! was then i said no more ladders!!! i built this shop, 16 ft tall at the rear and 14 ft at the front.....i hada 20ft extention ladder, and it just scared me eveytine i got half way up it. i went and bought a 14ft werner step ladder...its nice to work off....any higher then that and its man lift time!!!!!!
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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George - I remember General Lee as I grew up in Frayser - I didn't know him personally but knew who he was - he was well known in my neighborhood as the sign painter- I wasn't into signs then - too young - he had a shop by Miller's Cave at Overton Crossing & Watkins/James road - by Grandparents used to have a grocery store there in the 50's - also used to be a Boyces Grocery next door about that time - I actually worked there as a teenager - learned how to cut up chickens & package meat. Remember the Miller Brothers? Don & Dave - I read last year where one of them was terminally ill with cancer & not expected to live very much longer. Anywho, General Lee also had a shop/home next to Paulusses Grocery at North Watkins & Dellwood - down the road from Frayser High School - right across from Alta Vista Florist- - ah, memories. . .
-------------------- Carl Wood Olive Branch, Ms Posts: 1392 | From: Olive Branch,MS USA | Registered: Nov 1999
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James, were you utilizing your handy roller tip at the time? Hey, at least you weren't hurt. Be careful out among the ladders. My worst faux pas was standing on a 3' step ladder on top of a plank supported by 8' and 6' step ladders. At least nobody saw me and I didn't kill myself. I hate being short. Love....Jill
Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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I've got one of those Werner Multi-Ladders and like it quite well. It's very sturdy and versatile. The only thing is it's quite heavy. I also prefer fiberglass extension ladders. Besides not conducting electricity, they just feel more solid than aluminum.
Bottom line, though, I much prefer the installations where at least one foot can remain on the ground.
-------------------- Dale Feicke Grafix 714 East St. Mendenhall, MS 39114
"I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me." Posts: 2963 | From: Mendenhall, MS | Registered: Apr 1999
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Jill, same job, different part of it. I was up putting a Dibond (knockoff) cutout ribbon decoration next to the main 4' x 8' oval part of the sign. Had the cordless drill and stainless screws with me. What's surprising is how I managed to hold on to everything, even the ladder.
I tend to move real s-l-o-w and easy when off the ground. In fact, one time I was way up on about 6 sections of scaffolding, and this brat kid starts yelling up at me, making chicken sounds. You know, B-B-B-Bawk B-B-B-Bawk! (BTW, how come ckickens never say "B-B-B-Bethoven"????)
OK so shoot me.
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
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Dale, I found a way to make that ladder seem a lot lighter. After struggling to move it to different locations (many times), I discovered that if you set it up as a retracted step, lay it on its side, walk in between them, find the point of balance & pick it up from there. You'll be surprised how much lighter it will seem. Much easier to carry it that way - if you've got the room. It might make ya look stupid, but it sure helps. Oh, and all yunz Little Giant faithfuls can try that too.
-------------------- Bill Cosharek Bill Cosharek Signs N.Huntingdon,Pa
bcosharek@juno.com Posts: 703 | From: N.Huntingdon, Pa, USA | Registered: Dec 1999
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It's not the hieghts that scare me...it's not the fall...so much...
It's the sudden STOP at the bottom!!!!!
I won't climb an extension ladder, but I have worked on a 16foot A-frame...I was only shakey the first time up, after climbing up and down, moving it and climbing up a few dozen times it was nothing!
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Cars going by were stoping to look at this nut! They got it done!
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He survived but was messed up for life.
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?! You'd be lucky if the building wasn't built with duck tape ![[Rolling On The Floor]](graemlins/rolf.gif)
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