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I just read Don's response and I am feeling real good. This is the way things are supposed to work here in Letterville. We applaud Don and Gemini for the wisdom and courage they show resonding to their customers' needs and questions. Well done Don.
We also want to thank all who posted in this topic. Some say posting in Letterville is just asking for trouble. They fear we will rip them to shreds if they publically respond to questions and/or comments posted here on the BullBoard.
I'm not going to say that it hasn't happened, but I'm certain customers at live trade show must ask some tough questions too. Merchants such as Ron and Kristi, Howard, Jim, Roger, Kelli, John, Butler...the list goes on, have put a face on their companies and became part of our Community.
We urge all Merchants to pay attention to this Forum and respond whenever possible. If we see a post that requires attention from one of our Merchants, we e-mail you you immediately. Please let us know if you are not getting these emails.
Once again, thanks to those Merchants that participate here in Letterville and a big thanks to all of you Letterville regulars that treat others with the courtesy and respect we all enjoy ourselves.
-------------------- Steve Shortreed 144 Hill St., E. Fergus, Ontario Canada N1M 1G9 519-787-2673
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OK folks, one more, we have been with Gemini since they started and have had good results for years. Now the trouble starts. We had patterns that didn't work, had to do them over by hand, and right now we have a bunch of letters that have the stud mountings clogged so it is nearly impossible to insert the studs. Had to cut the tops because they used the plastic that melts when the heat of the drill softens them. As if that weren't bad enough, most of the stud mounts are so crooked that it is going to be a nightmare trying to install them straight. It seems as though the country is cutting corners everywhere to save a buck, and down goes the quality. It is sad, lets hope all this can be fixed soon.
-------------------- Bill Riedel Riedel Sign Co., Inc. 15 Warren Street Little Ferry, N.J. 07643 billsr@riedelsignco.com Posts: 2953 | From: Little Ferry, New Jersey, USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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The set of letters we just got were the same as Mr. Riedel's. This was a huge order(my cost $978) of formed plastic letters. When my installer got back he said that the pads were crooked and he had a hard time getting them in the pre-drilled holes that came off of Gemini's pattern. We have always had good success with their stuff, but this post has me worried.
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I'll be completely honest with you. We probably get more complaints about patterns than anything else. It's not such a problem on cast, flat cut or injection molded letters because the stud locations and patterns can be computer generated. The problem is most prevelant on formed plastic letters. The placement of the studs and the patterns are complete manual labor. Gemini has spent many hours training in training for pattern making and also trying to come up with a better way of producing them but the solution has proved to be quiet elusive. We are once again going through a re-training process but please remember to ALWAYS check patterns before drilling holes.
Wish I had a better answer but I just don't right now. If any of you have suggestions on how we can improve this process, they will be welcome.
-------------------- Don Nelson Gemini dnelson@axcesswave.com Posts: 43 | From: Oberlin, OH | Registered: Aug 2004
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Just installed another Gemini job....Flawless! Everything from the order proceedure to the final install was seamless as usual. If I have ever had an issue, it was the template alignment. But, even that is a rarity.
""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3514 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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Don, I think that in your training a person knowledgeable in sign installation should be the teacher to show just how important the patterns are and how critical the stud mounting blocks are. We are relying on you to save us valuable time, and when an order goes bad, time goes out the window.
-------------------- Bill Riedel Riedel Sign Co., Inc. 15 Warren Street Little Ferry, N.J. 07643 billsr@riedelsignco.com Posts: 2953 | From: Little Ferry, New Jersey, USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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We have about $2,000 of Gemini letters in the studio now and have had no problems.
We make our own templates because I may want to kern/space the letters differently than the guy (or lady) at Gemini. It takes a little bit of time but it may also save a lot of time on the job.
We put a number on each letter and then mark the pattern with the corresponding number so we are certain that each letter is correctly installed.
Monday, I am meeting with a church that will probably order a batch of Gemini letters, so you guys keep your eyes peeled for some more purchase orders coming your way.
-------------------- Chapman Sign Studio Temple, Texas chapmanstudio@sbcglobal.net Posts: 6306 | From: Temple, Texas, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Just to follow up a bit further, I did some more research on this to see what else might have caused recent problems with the patterns. Here is the response that I received from our factory.
There was an issue with some plastic stud blocks. The drill/tap machine was not working properly and holes were crooked. We identified the problem and are rebuilding the machine in IA. Will not run any more of these blocks until it is fixed. Not sure how many of the bad blocks are out there, but they do create crooked studs. Not good. FYI- This is the same plastic we have used since day one - CAB. No changes there.
-------------------- Don Nelson Gemini dnelson@axcesswave.com Posts: 43 | From: Oberlin, OH | Registered: Aug 2004
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Gemini has been superb throughout the years I've used them. I wonder why I don't sell more of it. And, they have the lifetime warranty. Glad you got this issue resolved. Glad you posted your problem here too, since you are getting a positive response, which is heartening, but also that you know it's here that we care and you have support for your crucial issues. Hope things calm down and brighten up for you.
-------------------- Deb Fowler
"It's kind of fun to do the impossible - Walt Disney (1901-1966) Posts: 5373 | From: Loves Park, Illinois | Registered: Aug 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Paul Luszcz: This seems like a good time to ask a question that comes up a lot.
When the dimple in the pattern disagrees with the printed "X", which is pretty often, which one takes priority?
The dimple in the pattern would take priority. The dimple is made by inserting a very short stud into the pad. The letter is them placed on the paper and pushed down gently so that the pointed stud marks the paper. The "X" is then marked to make it easier to find the dimple.
-------------------- Don Nelson Gemini dnelson@axcesswave.com Posts: 43 | From: Oberlin, OH | Registered: Aug 2004
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