posted
Since it seems to be the day for getting price checks, I might as well jump in with one also.
This is a new delivery van that I finished lettering yesterday. The only vinyl is the address and phone number on each side and the back. Everything else is paint.
Paint was used because no vinyl matched the colors they required.
The layout is the same as one previously done for the same customer about eight years ago, only slightly larger. All of the artwork was on file so all I had to do was make patterns and letter, plus cut the small copy in black vinyl.
Specs: sides are 15.5' wide, back and front are 7' wide. The front only has Casey's Furniture, Inc. in dark green (no "C" logo)
This is how I did the job: A mask was cut for the front and back, with the exception of the "C" which was hand lettered. The word "Furniture, Inc." on each side was done using a mask and One Shot Lettering Enamel which was rolled on (same as front and back).
The mask was removed almost immediately and areas around the rivets were cleaned up.
A paper pattern was drawn on the plotter for "Casey's" and the logo "C", perforated and then pounced on the sides. A paper pattern was also made for the rear "C".
I hand lettered the Casey's on both sides, as well as the C logo on both side and the rear. All of this was double coated. A mask could have been used for everything but I figured it would use up too much mask since I only have a 24" plotter and everything would have had to be pieced together.
The truck was new and all we had to do was wash the area for the lettering
This is a regular customer that we have done a lot of work for over the years. Payment is made when we deliver the signs...or vehicles.
So...how much would you charge for this job? No day dreams or utopian guesses - just straight money that you would have to have to run this through your shop. I'll check back in in a few days and let you know how long it took and what we received for the job. Have a great weekend.
[ October 28, 2005, 09:13 PM: Message edited by: Raymond Chapman ]
-------------------- Chapman Sign Studio Temple, Texas chapmanstudio@sbcglobal.net Posts: 6306 | From: Temple, Texas, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Well, Raymond... I would have used our MultiCam and done it in 3D.
-grampa dan
-------------------- Dan Sawatzky Imagination Corporation Yarrow, British Columbia dan@imaginationcorporation.com http://www.imaginationcorporation.com
Being a grampa is one of the the most wonderful things in the world!!! Posts: 8738 | From: Yarrow, B.C. Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
from years of experience and gut instinct???
$1,300.00 give or take a few Ray. Materials were negligible. Execution shouldnt have taken more than a day to do. I can be happy making a grand a day net profit.
Now please be sure and quote my price check job!
[ October 29, 2005, 12:25 AM: Message edited by: Bob Stephens ]
-------------------- Bob Stephens Skywatch Signs Zephyrhills, FL
posted
I would think around $2000 if you had to double-coat the lettering. Just curious, why did you have to double-coat the dark color on a white background?
-------------------- Jean Shimp Shimp Sign & Design Co. Jacksonville Beach, Fl Posts: 1266 | From: Jacksonville Beach, Fl. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I would have done it for $1200, maybe a little more for color-matching/double-coating depending. One day making patterns/masks, vinyl letters, etc. Another day in execution,...about right?
Calculated using special"Letterhead Pricing Software"
I am sure the Market says much more, but it does,nt seem to that much work.
-------------------- Rich Stebbing RichSigns Rohnert Park CA 707-795-5588 Posts: 755 | From: Rohnert Park, CA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
If I was quoting a price ... allow 12 hours maximum from "Go". Actual time probably 10. Plus vinyl lettering and a pint each of the "matched" paint colors .... Maximum $1000 for a regular customer.
To save time I would paint the "C" first rather than try and cut it in around the rest of the lettering. I would also try and use mask for "Furniture Inc." Lot quicker.
I would say anywhere in the 1700-2000 range would be fair. Aside from lettering time, I imagine an hour to lay it out, meet with clients, etc, etc. So assuming shop rate is roughly $125/hr if that's the way you want to figure it.
Did you design the logo too?
They're using an inch mark for the apostrophe instead of an actual apostrophe. I'm assuming that that is their error, and not yours Ray - as surely you would know an inch mark from an apostrophe. Unless those PC's don't give apostrophes - (haha).
Nice job friend--
One thing to consider is that the actual time invested has only a slight bearing of the actual value of the job. And Ray, you're probably twice as fast as the rest of us executing jobs like this. So why penalilze yourself for your efficiencies learned over the years? We really only charge certain things by an hourly rate here (like web changes).
Another thing that was a helpful exercise for me recently was to determine the cost of running the office, including salaried employees, all expenses, pension payments, car payments. etc... It was interesting to note that that number came to appox. $90-$95/hour to just be open and running. Of course, with 4 employees generally billing out at least $125/hr, $90 doesn't really seem high at all.
Of course, I'm in NJ though where our good government has made us the most expensive state in the nation to get anything accomplished. I guess somehow maybe that's good for me!
"Some are born to move the world, to live their fantasies. But most of us just dream about the things we'd like to be." - Rush Posts: 1192 | From: Washington, NJ | Registered: Feb 1999
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Nice Job Ray. After reading your description, a shoot from the hip price would have been around $1,200. After reading the other replies and thinking about the process, I would have to charge more because I no longer have easy access to the tools I would need to do it efficiently. So, if the truck came in today, I would be in the $1,800-$2,200 range because I would have to cut masks, etc. But at that price and this market, I honestly wouldn't expect to get the job.
Havin' fun,
Checkers
-------------------- a.k.a. Brian Born www.CheckersCustom.com Harrisburg, Pa Work Smart, Play Hard Posts: 3775 | From: Harrisburg, Pa. U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 1998
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Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6714 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
My very first 'can-do-it-in-a-day' mindset spouts $650 . . . but therein lies my problem for years, of thinkin' "HEY $650 a day!".
I still fall into this trap occasionally, but much, much less than I used to 4 or 5 years ago. It freaks me out how I still catch myself 'goin' there' tho. (I do this in part when I like the job, and I know it'll be easy and fun gravy.)
See, that's the whole thing.
I don't look at this as 'work'. This looks like fun. I've GOT to start seein' this as WORK. . . lol
Over the last few years, I now make the effort to add to whatever price my head spouts at me, considering the actual materials and time, which I've decided INCLUDES waiting for paint to dry. The more thinkin' I do, the more I add. THEN I add a little more for unforseens . . . I DO try to take into account what the 'market will bear' . . .(if there is such a thing)....
but at the same time, if they would'a said, 'go lower', or 'no', or said they could 'get it cheaper somewhere else', I'd just happily say, 'No', 'GO for it'. and 'adios'.
I NEVER come DOWN on prices, and also explain that I'm goin' up next time.
Here, they would'a choked on $895 , but that would'a been the bottom dollar . . . still, not bad for one day of work, a 1/2 pint of paint, and about 9 or 10 ft of vinyl.
I don't like to keep commerical vehicles overnight. I can lock them up in the shop . . . but I just don't like to. Commercial vehicles always take priority, partly 'cause the customer needs them and partly 'cause they take up a whole bay of my 30x40. I mostly like to do this stuff outside. For the sake of this exercise, and also becuase we been in a sunny drought, I'm figgerin' this on a very typical sunny day, (which has lately been in the 70's). I also have very, very few walk-ups since most stuff is appointment-arranged. The answerin' machine always gets the phone when I'm in the shop.
Assuming I started somewhere around 6 in the morning:
I would'a projected the C's and made paper-patterns. Now I have to stop, get my kid up, motivate her for nearly an hour and run her to school, hopefully on time.
Back to the shop before 8am. All C's pounced & hand-lettered by 11am. (The only way it would take 2 or 3 days is if it was damp, and/or cold, just waitin' for paint to dry) Otherwise, the sunshine & heat will dry the C's before noon.
While the C's are dryin', I can layout, plot, weed, mask, and apply, the vinyl. I can also make patterns for 'Casey's'.
Now, it's off to the diner for lunch - really - just to hang out and shoot-the-bull & visit with all my 'rowdy' frenz . . .
Back to the shop no later than 1:30. Check the C's. The one to the sun is good-n-dry, Now, I'll turn the truck around so... A: I can pounce-n'letter 'Casey's' in the shade and B: So the other side can 'bake' a while.
Call the customer and tell 'em they can pick up the the truck in the mornin' for it'll be good and dry.
Pounce, & letter Casey's all the way around . . . It's likely pushin' 5 or 5:30 now, and I have to go pick Emily up. Stop and call Granma's to tell her I'll be there when I get cleaned up.
Move 10,000 little things while I mutter to myself I should'a charged more to cover THIS part and pull the truck inside for overnight. Write up an invoice (I hand-write mine) and dob the paint colours from the truck on my copy for future reference.
Lock up and go pick up the kid by 6pm.
It's been a good day.
Thanx for the simulated-job Mr. Raymond!
-------------------- Signs Sweet Home Alabama
oneshot on chat
"Look like a girl, act like a lady, think like a man, work like a dog" Posts: 5758 | From: "Sweet Home" Alabama | Registered: Mar 2003
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-------------------- Maker of fine signs and other creative stuff. Located at 109 N. Cumberland ave. Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-837-0242 Posts: 4172 | From: Ages-Brookside, Ky. Up the Holler... | Registered: Jul 1999
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Since the colors needed double coating and I abhore double coating, I would have used the "cut and roll" method. I would have made patterns for the rear, would have perforated the front at the same time as the rear. Made patterns for the sides, applied transfer paper ( 24" ) to all surfaces to be lettered. Pounced patterns, hand cut all the lettering using an X-acto, weed the dark green letters, roll the dark green on ( a cutter could also be used ) weed the large C, rolled the gray, use a large flat and a quill to edge up to the dark green, pull the mask and do the touchups. I know this sounds like a whole lot of trouble, but the "cut and roll" method was widely used in commercial shops in Memphis in the seventies and eighties up til the computers hit and the method is actually a good bit faster than hand lettering. When you factor in double coating it's much faster.
Timewise, 8-10 hours max. Although it could all be done in one day, I'd want to make the patterns one day and execute the lettering on another, just in case Murphy decided to pay a visit.
Vinyl on the small copy.
[ October 29, 2005, 11:24 AM: Message edited by: George Perkins ]
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
-------------------- aka:Cisco the "Traveling Millennium Sign Artist" http://www.franciscovargas.com Fresno, CA 93703 559 252-0935 "to live life, is to love life, a sign of no life, is a sign of no love"...Cisco 12'98 Posts: 3576 | From: Fresno, Ca, the great USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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$1200-$1300 1/2 day for patterns and 1 full day to have fun. This time of year I would tell the customer 2 days (8 to 10 hours total) due to double coating. I would ask for the truck at the end of the day so I would wash it with TSP and project at dark.
I would project the large part and hand letter. Its much faster than you would think. Double coating is a snap the next day. The dark green would best be cut and rolled because that color is a triple coater!
-------------------- John Arnott El Cajon CA 619 596-9989 signgraphics1@aol.com http://www.signgraphics1.com Posts: 1443 | From: El Cajon CA usa | Registered: Dec 1998
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I'd have to include myself in the over $2000 gang...
Geet, still awaiting for my used apache, did you ship UPS?
-------------------- Frank Magoo, Magoo's-Las Vegas; fmagoo@netzero.com "the only easy day was yesterday" Posts: 2365 | From: Las Vegas, Nv. | Registered: Jun 2003
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I'd say in the 2 grand range, but then I wouldn't get the job. That's why I do very few jobs of this type. Vehicle lettering is cut-throat around here.
-------------------- Tim Whitcher Adrian, MI Posts: 1546 | From: Adrian, MI | Registered: Mar 1999
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If you were to re-read thread, you'd find it mentioned twice...
plus, you work to cheap, stick around and see how it's done...
-------------------- Frank Magoo, Magoo's-Las Vegas; fmagoo@netzero.com "the only easy day was yesterday" Posts: 2365 | From: Las Vegas, Nv. | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
Thanks all for taking the time to add to this thread.
In answer to some of the comments:
Sawatzky - you can't get credit from Multicam on my thread.
Harding - why are you commenting, you can't hand letter?
Jean - "why double coat?" This dark green color would fade quickly if not double coated...also the warm gray "C". Most of the copy was done with a mask and rolled, so it was good with one heavy coat.
Frisby - I'm still practicing, but just charging for it. Just like lawyers.
Antonelli - $125 an hour?! And he works in his pajamas! And the "inch-apostrophe" thing...it's called creativity. You can't find it on a Mac. (I'm ducking already because I know that will come back at me rather quickly)
Shelia - the prices you mentioned are the going prices around here for this type job also.
Most of you were very near what we actually got for the job, so I feel good that we are somewhere in the ballpark for what the vehicle is worth.
$1,350.00. We don't do many of these because the going price here is just about half that. Our client has done work with us for years, taking over the business from his father, for whom we also did work. Probably, I could have charged more and had no complaints - he never blinked at my price.
There was a total of 14 man hours involved in this job. Mike cleaned the truck, prepared the patterns, weeded and taped the masks, put on the masks and rolled those areas, and installed the vinyl - total of about 5 hours.
I did the artwork and ran all the patterns and vinyl and then helped Mike with the masks and cleaned up areas around the rivits when the mask was removed.
It was then my job to do all hand lettering of the word "Casey" on both sides and the logo "C" on the sides and back. All of this was double coated. My time, including meeting with the customer and making a presentation photo was about 9 hours. Contrary to what Antonelli thinks, I'm not all that fast.
Materials were about $45.
This was one of those jobs that you just enjoyed immensely. The weather was perfect - you could letter and not melt into a puddle, there was a slight breeze (it had to be done outside - too tall for the overhead door), and you couldn't hear the phone ring. It was done over two days, so there was no rush to get it in and out in one day.
Thanks for participating...now, I've got to go coat out some MDO.
-------------------- Chapman Sign Studio Temple, Texas chapmanstudio@sbcglobal.net Posts: 6306 | From: Temple, Texas, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I think it was worth more Ray. You're way too talented to be working for less than $100/hr.
Ever since I started wearing jeans to work, I had to raise prices! Plus, its not good for all the employees to see the boss in pajamas. (I have 4 now). Granted, two are thousands of miles of away, but videoconferencing still counts, right?)
I bet if you had a kick-butt web site, you could have got at least 2 grand. It's all in the marketing! (haha)
And don't give me the artistic license thing about the apostrophe..... that's the kind of thing that I'm shocked doesn't bother the heck out of you! It's like all-capped scripts!
"Some are born to move the world, to live their fantasies. But most of us just dream about the things we'd like to be." - Rush Posts: 1192 | From: Washington, NJ | Registered: Feb 1999
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I did a box van about 4 years ago, using a projector as their logo had that 18th century Williamsburg type look and could not come out of a computer. No apostrophes. I made them rent the projector. All copy was done in paint, two sides, a small front piece, and the garage door, in 2 colors of 1-S, not double coated, no patterns. I think I got $1,000. It took all of a Saturday and their garage guy helped me! He used to help his late brother, who was a sign painter in Pittsburgh. It was well worth the $$ at the time, I made a new friend (same last name as me!) and bought myself a projector with the profits. I did another one for them using a bit of vynull for phone numbers and such two years later and charged $1200. Love.....Jill
Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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Dan...you've got four? Pajamas or employees?
A web site...now, why didn't I think of that? Know anybody that does those things? $125 an hour ?...what can I get for about 45 minutes?
Hey, don't give up on me yet, Dan. I may just be sending you some photos in the next month. Does that web site come with a guarantee than I can get $100 an hour?
-------------------- Chapman Sign Studio Temple, Texas chapmanstudio@sbcglobal.net Posts: 6306 | From: Temple, Texas, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Rolling On The Floor]](graemlins/rolf.gif)
It does look nice tho.
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
The more thinkin' I do, the more I add. THEN I add a little more for unforseens . . . ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[For Your Information]](graemlins/fyi.gif)
plus, you work to cheap, stick around and see how it's done... ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
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