posted
OK. I've had it with paints that don't work and the hassle of automotive base clear. I remember several here that airbrush with vinyl screen printing inks. No need for clear coats or other vinyl prep right? (other than cleaning)
What brand do you use? I have the easiest access to Nazdar GV series. If any of you use this, what colors do you buy to mix the largest color range? (Which blue, yellow, red)
What thinner do you use and what ratio?
What do you use with these inks to clean the air brush?
Anything else I need to know.
[ October 27, 2005, 07:01 PM: Message edited by: Dave Sherby ]
-------------------- Dave Sherby "Sandman" SherWood Sign & Graphic Design Crystal Falls, MI 49920 906-875-6201 sherwoodsign@sbcglobal.net Posts: 5397 | From: Crystal Falls, MI USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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The easy way.... Before weeding, spray your vinyl with OS UV Clear aerosol and let dry. Airbrush with OS paints. The UV Clear acts as a "bridge" between the vinyl and paint. Been doing this for a while and haven't had a problem yet.
Hope this helps... Rapid
-------------------- Ray Rheaume Rapidfire Design 543 Brushwood Road North Haverhill, NH 03774 rapidfiredesign@hotmail.com 603-787-6803
I like my paint shaken, not stirred. Posts: 5648 | From: North Haverhill, New Hampshire | Registered: Apr 2003
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Dave the GV series is my favorite but it smells the worst.
I thin it and clean the airbrush with lacquer thinner. Although I have used the VF 182 Retarder (it rocks) lacquer thinner works fine and it's more convenient for me to get locally.
I thin the ink til it's more or less like milk - it varies a little but somewhere between skim and 2% depending on the job. This is roughly 3 or 4 parts of thinner to one part of ink. Yes, one quart of ink yields a gallon of sprayable material. The ink is very very thick, barely even moves when you tilt the can over, and it lasts for freaking ever.
I don't mix colors very often. Usually I'm just doing a highlight and shadow, if I have a color fade I haven't run into a situation where the color straight from the can wouldn't work OK. I'm no color mixer, I end up with mud when I try so I stick to what I can get from the can unless it's a simple matter of tinting a color. Nazdar has color formulas available, but I think it's a $$$ software program that calculates the mixtures.
Got a fresh air hood and some good fans for ventilating the shop? You'll need it.
The ink smell also lingers for a while - even after a simple highlight/shadow job, you can close up the cans and store em away, not use for a week and you'll still smell it.
It does spray nice and smooth though. If the surface of the vinyl feels rough or gritty after spraying, you might need a slower thinner, less thinner or you might need wetter passes. You shouldn't feel any transition between the ink and the vinyl when you run your fingers over it, this ink lays down SO smooth.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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I use automotive basecoats, acrylic urathane, weed then clear with OS u.v. clear.... has been working without failure for 4 years
-------------------- Ken McTague, Concept Signs 57 Bridge St. (route 107) Salem MA 01970 1-978-745-5800 conceptsign@yahoo.com http://www.pinheadlounge.com/CaptainKen
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"A wise man once said that, or was it a wise guy?" Posts: 2425 | From: Salem, MA | Registered: Apr 1999
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posted
I asked a similar question not too long ago and because I needed to do something in a hurry I used SEM automotive paints, they dried fast and I shot them with some Frog Juice- first time using the "Juice", too- which I hope doesn't yellow....hasn't been long enough to tell, yet. It seemed to work well and have asked the customer how they are holding up and he reports that they are doing well.
Anyway...I am eventually going to experiment with the Nazdar GV Series also, just haven't gotten around to it. My question is, do they dry to a nice GLOSSY finish?
Posts: 51 | From: Spout Spring, VA. | Registered: Feb 2005
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stay away from those nasty Nazdaar inks, every time you open the can takes days off your life expectency....Beth has it right, its rather easy....any brand of urathane automotive basecoats will stick like hell, dry quick and last. I have trucks I did 4 years ago that I see up close on a weekly basis, and they are perfect still.
-------------------- Ken McTague, Concept Signs 57 Bridge St. (route 107) Salem MA 01970 1-978-745-5800 conceptsign@yahoo.com http://www.pinheadlounge.com/CaptainKen
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"A wise man once said that, or was it a wise guy?" Posts: 2425 | From: Salem, MA | Registered: Apr 1999
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Michael...I don't think it matters much which "brand" of vinyl you use but I found out one thing the hard way....Auto base/clear can make translucent vinyl shrink and curl within a few hours. I mean it can look like 10 year old 3 mil calendared vinyl overnight!
I had it happen on only one job, but after re-doing the job and having the same thing happen I gave up and used the translucent vinyl without any blends.
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
posted
I've used Dr. Ph. Martin's Metal Craft airbrush paint. You can spray it directly to vinyl with no undercoat. I then cleared it. Was on my car for a couple years and I didn't notice any fading.
-------------------- Amy Brown Life Skills 101 Private Address Posts: 3502 | From: Lake Helen, FL, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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Well this is disappointing so far. I know automotive base clear works. I've used it. It's just such a hassle though. The paint shoots great, but it's just such a hassle to clean out the spray gun after clearing especially on a quick fade.
I just don't trust Frog Juice or even the One Shot clear as a base coat, unless someone can confidently say it is going to last at least 5 years.
Really re-thinking using Nazdar if it smells that bad that long.
-------------------- Dave Sherby "Sandman" SherWood Sign & Graphic Design Crystal Falls, MI 49920 906-875-6201 sherwoodsign@sbcglobal.net Posts: 5397 | From: Crystal Falls, MI USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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Dave, the vinyl inks are just as much as a pain to clean out of an airbrush as the urethanes are. Why not try a single stage urethane? It's gonna require an iso catalyst as I'm sure your clear does, but being single stage, the urethane dries glossy. I used to pinstripe with PPG Concept, a single stage, and used it to airbrush on vinyl with good results without resorting to a clear. You can buy five colors, black, white, a medium red, a dark blue and a chrome yellow and make damn near any color you want. Frog Juice is a problem just waiting to happen, I was bit by that stuff a few too many times, wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole.
[ October 28, 2005, 02:16 PM: Message edited by: George Perkins ]
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
posted
Can you have a paint shop put the automotive base clear into an aerosol can? I know some paint stores can do this with automotive paints so you can paint accessories, etc to match your vehicle's paint -- maybe they can put the clear in a spray can and you can spray down the clear without a big cleanup hassle afterward...
-------------------- Ryan Long Magic Light Neon Sign Co. Crawfordsville, IN Posts: 132 | From: Crawfordsville, IN | Registered: Jul 2005
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Dave, We screen all our vinyl with NazDar 9700 all purpose series on vinyl. It fuses in and has a great color range including a number of transparent inks which blend well and clean. I haven't opened a can of vinyl in years and don't miss it.
If you have some small shippable containers I can sure send you a sampling assortment.
Before I got my Edge I airbrushed a number of jobs with it. It also isn't nearly as rank smelling as the vinyl inks. Thin with laquer thinner. Gast thinner may give you dry overspray that can be wet in with thinned clear.
-------------------- Bill Modzel Mod-Zel screen Printing Traverse city, MI modzel@sbcglobal.net Posts: 1356 | From: Traverse City, MI | Registered: Nov 1998
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I can COFIDENTLY say, I have been spraying urathane based automotive paints, then clearing with OS clear without failure for over 4 years, and still see the jobs on a weekly basis. ok Dave? most of the paints I use are HOK shimmirin base coats, no catylst, easy to mix, easy to spray, and easy enough to clean up. I then weed it and clear with one shot UV clear, wait 10 minutes tape and apply. No Nazdarr needed, those inks will kill you, by far the worst thing you could be spraying!
-------------------- Ken McTague, Concept Signs 57 Bridge St. (route 107) Salem MA 01970 1-978-745-5800 conceptsign@yahoo.com http://www.pinheadlounge.com/CaptainKen
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"A wise man once said that, or was it a wise guy?" Posts: 2425 | From: Salem, MA | Registered: Apr 1999
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posted
Ken...How do you get away with weeding before shooting the clear?
Don't you end up with all those little clear beads on the backing paper? Which then transfer to the job and are a pain to pick off?
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
The key is to REALLY let things dry. It really doesn't take a lot of the UV Clear to make it work...just a dusting is usually enough. Heaping on the clear to get a glossy finish becomes a defeated process when the airbrushing is only going to dull it again.
As long as you give the paint plenty of time to cure before laying the application tape onto it, it works well. Rushing the process leads to the paint peeling up when the app tape is pulled.
Rapid
-------------------- Ray Rheaume Rapidfire Design 543 Brushwood Road North Haverhill, NH 03774 rapidfiredesign@hotmail.com 603-787-6803
I like my paint shaken, not stirred. Posts: 5648 | From: North Haverhill, New Hampshire | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
I've been using Summit vinyl inks for about 4-5 yrs. I use a 50-50 mix of thinner/retarder to get the ink milk thin. Use screen washout to clean the brush. Any supply house worth a diddley should be able to set you up, ask em!
Having said that; I added a range of createx Auto-Air waterbased paint. And so far it sticks great. And no smell. The color choices are amazing & you don't have to spend a fortune on colors. I think they reformulated a few years ago, and it seems to be working. And it doesn't degrade the vinyl like the inks seem to do.
-------------------- Bill Dirkes Cornhole Art LLC Bellevue, Ky. Goodnight Mrs. Calabash, wherever you are. Posts: 591 | From: Bellevue,Ky. US | Registered: Aug 1999
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Dave, along Ray's theroy you don't need tp put much clear on, just to seal things or get the gloss back. The clear does bead up a bit on the liner, and does tranfer onto the tape, but doesn't stick yo the surface, never really a problem.
-------------------- Ken McTague, Concept Signs 57 Bridge St. (route 107) Salem MA 01970 1-978-745-5800 conceptsign@yahoo.com http://www.pinheadlounge.com/CaptainKen
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"A wise man once said that, or was it a wise guy?" Posts: 2425 | From: Salem, MA | Registered: Apr 1999
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Dave, are you talking about vinyl- the sticky self-adhesive stuff like wonderful avery, or vinyl- the stuff they make banners & tents & tarpaulins out of?
Here, there are 2 common screenprinting vinyl inks designed for printing on vinyl to make stickers, but which stick to the tent fabric vinyl really well also. Thin with the proper thinners, or if you're being cheap use GP lacquer thinners or gunwash.
Then there are some waterbased vinyl banner paints that can stick to sticky vinyl well too, and some don't. I think the auusie brands are specific to here so won't be of use to you though.
-------------------- "Stewey" on chat
"...there are no limits when you aim for perfection..." Jonathan Livingston Seagull Posts: 7014 | From: Highgrove via Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia | Registered: Dec 2002
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I just applied another set of airbrushed vinyl lettering and would strongly recommend NOT putting the application tape on until the truck or whatever it's going on is sitting in your shop. Had this job lined up for installation three weeks ago and had everything ready- customer calls at the last minute to say he can't make it that weekend....so three weeks later I apply this vinyl and as I'm pulling the ap tape there is a thin layer of the airbrushed effects coming off....not enough for the average person to notice- but enough to bother me. Don't know if it was from the SEM or Frog Juice not drying fully- or from sitting so long the ap tape bonded to the airbrushing...it didn't happen before on another job with the same amount of drying time so am thinking it's just not a good idea to let it sit with ap tape.
Posts: 51 | From: Spout Spring, VA. | Registered: Feb 2005
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you are right Beth, the longer the tape sits on the vinyl the "married" they become. Same applys to paint with tape on it for extended (more then 1 day) periods.
Roger
-------------------- Roger Bailey Rapid Tac Incorporated 186 Combs Dr. Merlin Oregon 97532 Posts: 3020 | From: Merlin Oregon | Registered: Dec 1998
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The ink is very very thick, barely even moves when you tilt the can over, and it lasts for freaking ever.
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