posted
I have been spoiled by a local ad agency that does national work. When they send a logo they designed for a customer, it is clean vector artwork saved in whatever version I need. (to keep customer's cost lower, I don't buy every new version of every software). They make sure their customer has, not only a great logo, but the logo saved in various ways so they can use it for all their advertising needs.
Any other artwork I seem to get from a customer who hired a "professional graphic designer" or ad agency seems to send .jpegs or the latest CS11 or something that is full of layers and lines.
My favorite ad agency always prepares their logos with their customer's mulitple needs in mind. Not just print media, but sign making, silk screening etc. They have all colors separated and there is no clean up needed by me.
Am I just spoiled by the one designer, or do professional designers provided useable artwork for their customer's many needs.
I have a project now from a local city government. They paid big money to have a new logo and tag line designed for the city. The artwork was sent to me for vinyl application (wish I could just paint it and be done with it). When I shut the color off, the logo has layers of lines overlapping each other.
Do I clean this up for the customer for free? They spent a lot of money on it and will work for print, but not for me or a silk screen company, or anyone who needs the colors separated.
I seem to get this quite often. I'm I expecting more than I should?
posted
Rule of thumb is if you have to do it, you have to charge for it.
If you explain to the customer that the artwork is unusable, they will most of the time call their designer and they will get better artwork.
-------------------- Mark Kottwitz Kottwitz Graphics Ridgely, MD www.SeeMySignWork.com -------------------------- Imagination is more important than knowledge. -- Albert Einstein Posts: 746 | From: Ridgely, MD | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
Simply tell them their designer didn't finish the job. they can either pay you to finish the artwork or get the designer they've already paid to do it.
-------------------- Pat Whatley Montgomery, AL (334) 262-7446 office (334) 324-8465 cell Posts: 1306 | From: Wetumpka, AL USA | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
any "real" designer will provide vectorized artwork in either pdf, eps, or ai format...along with bitmaps such as jpg,tif,gif etc. designers will usually have a simplier version of the logo for monogramming or silkscreening purposes if its that complicated....but i would let the customer know exactly what you need to perform your job....ie(saved as a lower version of a certain software)
i do believe that you need to somewhat stay on top of technology if you are going to be competing in this forever changing lovely business. and what i mean by this is.... if 2 sign companies are competing for a big account. company 1 keeps up to date with their software and eqpmt. company 2 uses an old antiquated system and can not open alot of files that todays designers are providing. sign co. 1 can open the clients file no problem...the rate is $65/hr for their sign services.
sign co. 2 can not open the clients file because they don't have latest technology so they need to scan and clean up a black and white high res tif...and they would like to charge extra for doing so...they charge $45/hr for their sign services.
at this point a potential client must look at who can perform the best service at the best cost...with quality and reputation factored in of course. ....BUT if i was a potential client...i would not want to be charged extra for clean up when a useable file was provided by someone i paid alot of money to.
i'm not saying this is your situation pam...so please don't take it that way. but i have seen other sign companies not able to work on files that i have been able to open no problem....reasons being they had old eqpmt and software.
[ October 18, 2005, 10:59 AM: Message edited by: KARYN BUSH ]
-------------------- Karyn Bush Simply Not Ordinary, LLC Bartlett, NH 603-383-9955 www.snosigns.com info@snosigns.com Posts: 3516 | From: Bartlett, NH USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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posted
When I design a logo for a customer I always save it in several different formats. I don't do the color seps but I do write up graphic standards sometimes. I always spec the colors also. Getting artwork from an ad agency is sweet. The ones I do work for are great; they don't whine at all about price, always give me great artwork and always expect me to bust my chops to get it done, LOL. Gotta give a little too.
-------------------- Ricky Jackson Signs Now 614 Russell Parkway Warner Robins, GA (478) 923-7722 signpimp50@hotmail.com
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Sir Issac Newton Posts: 3528 | From: Warner Robins, GA | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
Having worked on both ends, many designers are not sign production knowledgible when giving out logos. A design can send a .tif or .eps and 95% of the work you need done can be done with a logo with layers and overlapping vectors, including screen printers who take bitmaps and do thir seps in Photoshop. This puts you in a bad position, if you kick it back to the designer, you may not get what you need and you go back and forth till they do it right adding misery and frustration....and usually the sign person loses the the confidence of the client from the bad mouthing designer. You can do it and then all the sudden you become resposible if something goes wrong.
I myself would offer the service of making it "sign" ready for a certain price and then send it back to them for approval making them resposible if you accidently move a vector or thicken a path by accident.
-------------------- Rick Chavez Hemet, CA Posts: 1539 | From: Hemet,CA U.S.A. | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
Ricky, The colors are all overlapping and running through other colors. I will have to cut and weld to make closed paths where one color object runs across another.
Karyn, you are right about staying updated, but I just moved up from FlexiSign to FlexiPro 7.6 and it will open Adobe 10, but not CS11. It's a lot of money to stay on the cutting edge. I did aske them to save it in a lower version, but it still came with lines of overlapped colors running through each other.
Rick, you are right about being bad mouthed.
Thank you to all who have taken the time to post replies. I want to go back to the old paint brush many times, but I know technology is heading fast forward.
posted
If the artwork isn't production-ready for YOUR purposes, ei: overlapping paths and junk, YOU GET PAID for making it so, REGARDLESS of how much the customer has already invested in it.
It's not your problem! Any other service bureau would charge a fee for making artwork production ready.
Of course, there's a difference between a quickie 5 minute path clean-up and one that takes an hour because it's pretty complicated. I've run into several of them on occassion and usually after about 15 minutes of messing with it and trying to keep all the colors/layers in the right production order, I can hear myself mutter "I need a VersaCamm"...
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
I tell them I need useable vector art or I'll have to bill them the time necessary to create it. I also tell them versions that are acceptable. Any software can save down if the twit behind the keyboard isn't totally braindead.
If they ask what vector art is, you can be fairly certain you're not going to get it.
Most jobs with customer supplied artwork, I figure I'm still going to spend a little bit of time on checking to make sure the logo is usable, assigning colors, and basic tweaking for sign usage so that's already built into the price.
As for the artwork you got, I'd explain that it is not in usable vector form and will take XX time to make it as such. Their cost would be $X unless they can get it in a usable format from their designer.
Now, wanna laugh? I did a sign using a customer's "logo". Still can't believe he paid a "graphic designer" to create the abortion they're calling a logo. He tried handing me a floppy disk. Haven't owned a floppy drive in over 3 years, so I told him to email me the files. If there was an ai or eps, send that, if not just send them all. Well, he had his computer genius pull up the directory of the disk & rename the file as an ai! Didn't open & save it as an ai, just renamed it as an ai. Gee, I wonder why he couldn't open it either!
-------------------- Chris Welker Wildfire Signs Indiana, Pa Posts: 4254 | From: Indiana, PA | Registered: Mar 2001
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Back in the Win 3.1 daze, an agency brought over a floppy with a logo they created on a Mac. It wouldn't import into Corel 3 and the guy from the agency decided to add the .eps extension onto the files on the floppy from my keyboard (Yes, I did learn my lesson--no customer has touched my keyboard since). He accidently renamed the entire Windoze system directory with .eps. When the computer performed its regularly scheduled crash a couple hours later, it wouldn't reboot.
Fortunately for me, I had been to a Windogs seminar and had a booklet that told me the name and size of every file in the operating system. The file sizes were important because there were a number of files with the same name except for the extension. After renaming all the files correctly from the DOS prompt, the computer worked again (at least as well as a Win 3.1 computer was capable of doing).
-------------------- David Harding A Sign of Excellence Carrollton, TX Posts: 5092 | From: Carrollton, TX, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
My guess is that the "designer" has no idea how to do the vectors or knockout the colors for separation. My suggestion would be asking the customer if who they would like to finish the work, and informing them that if they used this designer, that they will have this problem over and over. If you do the designer work for them, you will be expected to do it for them everytime. Illustrator will do this job with its available tools or you can hand draw the vectors, the question is, will you do it for free.
-------------------- Bob Nugent Hotrodsonline.com Gainesville, GA 30506 hotrod@hotrodsonline.com Posts: 46 | From: Gainesville, Georgia | Registered: Mar 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Kissymatina: If they ask what vector art is, you can be fairly certain you're not going to get it.
That is priceless.
I've worked on both sides of the fence too. While an ad agency may charge big bucks for an identity, it amazes me how much pressure is put on the creative person to hurry. The job going out the door has often been built in stages, by committee. After it's been final-approved there's no more profit in it for the agency to go back and really make it clean - if it'll print, it's outta there.
But I can not work that way after being the recipient of too many of those kinds of files. Heck, even before my concept presentation has been final-approved I already know I'm looking at potentially MANY hours of vectorizing. Of course, part of my drive is I am often one of the first people who will be using the new artwork ON A PLOTTER. The job isn't finished till it could be put on ANYBODY's plotter.
Anyway Pam, I do not think you are asking too much. I think too many artists ask too little (of themselves) or know too little about what makes a good file.
SONGPAINTER Original Sign Music by Sign People NOW AVAILABLE on CD and the proceeds go to Letterville's favorite charity! Click Here for Sound Clips! Posts: 1974 | From: Orleans, MA, Cape Cod, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I agree with Karen, Most designers know what to send.
I think welding & deleting a few lines still saves you time over vectorizing & cleaning.
I always tell them (customer) there is a one time charge to get it into my computer format. Usually equal to 1/2 hour on basic stuff. Charge accordingly for more difficult designs.
Even good designers give you vector that most of the time has some cleanup. It comes through the email & you can get on with your life. No need for the fuzzy bus. card or folded letterhead you have to pick up or wait 2 days to get!
FYI... Make sure they send all text to paths & save it in a version or earlier compatible with your software.
-------------------- Michael R. Bendel Bendel Sign Co,. Inc. Sauk Rapids, MN Posts: 913 | From: Sauk Rapids, MN | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
Thank you for all the replies and advice. I have asked local shops and they say they spend the time to fix the file at no charge. One complains she will never be able to afford retirement. I felt there should be a charge to fine tune or maybe expect the designer to follow through, but wasn't sure. Maybe I am just using the wrong software. I just don't like working 55 to 65 hours a week for 40 hour week pay. Tired of being tired.
It's hard to expect the money when competition will do it for free, but we have been over that many times. I like the idea of a minimum charge to get it set up in my computer. Yes, there is always some tweaking that needs to be done and as we start adding up a half hour here and there, that's time that can be spent with family, friends, mowing the lawn and so on.
Thank you again for your time and thoughts on this subject.
Pam
-------------------- Pam Eddy Niles, MI ple@qtm.net Posts: 460 | From: Michigan | Registered: Dec 2000
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$250 online logo service - you get a jpeg. $550 designer in the next city - you get a pdf with bitmaps & vectors mixed and not press nor vinyl ready. $2500 Local skilled design & marketing firm you've worked with - skillfully executed artwork to your needs be it vinyl, digital or screen printing.
If the customer is unwilling to pay for your clean up, I'd suggest your good designer firm for their next project. An example on the wall of a poor job complete with unpaid cut lines through the graphic (on shrinking vinyl of course!) next to a clean professional job should do the trick.
-------------------- Ron Helliar Marysville Sign 11807 51st Ave. NE Marysville, WA 98271 (360) 659-4856 Posts: 263 | From: Marysville, WA USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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