posted
The building we are in is subdivided into two units. For the past couple years, the part next door has been occupied by a "Wholesale Factory Outlet" (read: flea market)
Three months ago...the guy goes to my wife and says: "You guys stay busy, we aren't. I think I deserve a piece of your business."
GRRRRR. We grumbled. We fussed. But then we calmed. They put up a sign that read "signs for less", and we began to observe the wquality of the little bit of work they produced. It was below amatuer. TRULY BAD. We relaxed.
Monday...the guy came by and said they were having an auction and closing shop. Gonna work "From Home".....
posted
What are they going to work at home doing? Are they taking the flea market there? the sign shop? both? Or did they get sold onto the Amway dream?
-------------------- Chris Welker Wildfire Signs Indiana, Pa Posts: 4254 | From: Indiana, PA | Registered: Mar 2001
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"We desrve some of your business..." Now that is hilarious. Sounds like an entitlement issue to me.
I am glad you stuck to it, Barry, and kept on course. You win!
-------------------- Bruce Bowers
DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter Posts: 6451 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
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barry i feel you pain....and levity!!!!!hahahahahahaha
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
C'mon... use your feeble little man brain like the rest of us...
We can justify just about anything!
-------------------- Bruce Bowers
DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter Posts: 6451 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
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posted
ARRR-ARR-ARRGH!!! (feeble typed impression of toolman tim taylor)
Seriously, more space would be cool. When the money's right I'd like to be able to add a steel fab dept....or maybe even a MULTICAM....(can I borrow yours Dan? I'll give it back in a year...or ten...pretty please?)
posted
Oh yeah...the other half is a big open bay of about 3600 sq feet. BUT...it is poorly heated, sparsely insulated, and not cooled at all. Hot in the summer cold in the winter. It was a garage for the local Ford dealer...built in 1950.
If i moved in there today....I'd put the wood and dibond stuff over there, and relocate my screenprint area to the shop where the dept is now. We could build a couple more tables, a billboard wall and really take advantage of being able to do more at one time....BUT...I don't know if that alone will make enough difference money wise to justify the rent.
Now...do you guys think having the entire facility would be beneficial appearance-wise?
posted
I know having the empty space next door to you can make it look like YOU'RE outta business. We have a lot of new strip shopping centers going up here that just cant seem to take off. Out of a strip of 8 spaces, two will be filled, and it makes the whole thing look like nobody's in there and there's hardly ever any cars in the lots.
Then again, my truck is all grey primer with magnetic tail lights stuck on it and my house is so full of clutter I'd never ask customers to come here, so I'm not one to talk about appearances.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
Thanks Barry for posting the update, I've wanted to ask about it.
I was wondering if you could sort of "help" (not sure how) the landlord find a tennant that would be a benefit to your shop.
I don't even know what/who that would be, but certainly there are better and worse. So a challenge, if for nothing but the sake of conversation: who can think of the best business to have next door?
Office supply store, because business owners would be coming by??? An accounting firm???
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
I can think of one, wish that set-up was here, I'd rent it as a pinstriping business only, let Barry do all the sign stuff, then down the road, the combo syndrone takes over and I start getting p/striping from his customers, win, win for me... The other thing I wanted to say here Barry is, don't equate extra rent as "that" much more expense, consider it as added overhead, the space will pay for it's self almost immediately, just in the extra room you alluded to needing and how you'd make it work if you did take it on.....the other benifit is the use of entire blgd. for you needs, not having to share your message w/possible opposing business...think about it, entire thing w/your message and pleasing colors, showcasing your talents from the get go, sales start outside, makes inside sales easier if bldg. looks good outside too!!! I'd grab it before someone else does, and believe me, the new neighbors could be a nitemare waiting to happen, spend the money now, and make a longterm deal w/landlord, don't wait until it's either very expensive or totally not reachable, don't ask how I know all this...get it now while you still can do your best work and build your future........
-------------------- Frank Magoo, Magoo's-Las Vegas; fmagoo@netzero.com "the only easy day was yesterday" Posts: 2365 | From: Las Vegas, Nv. | Registered: Jun 2003
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I think if you made her a serious offer on the building she just might take it. You have to remember that asking price and selling prix\ce are often worlds apart.
I would agree that 300K is a chunk of change. I have no idea what real estate goes for in your area but 7,000 square at that price doesn't sound outrageous.
Rents around here are somewhere around a buck a square foot for decent space. I would do a little research and see what rents are going for in your area. Thirty years is one heck of a committment, though. A lot factors involved.
I still think it is great that you stuck to your plan and outlasted the neighbors. Good on ya!
-------------------- Bruce Bowers
DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter Posts: 6451 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
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posted
Rent it all, with a lease option, then you control the property. In a car dealership the $300.000 is call Suggested Retail Maunfacturers Price. ( Sucker Price). If you can get a lower price and, most importantly lower and more creative financing, you would wind up with the building to do with as you wish. In my earlier life I sold my chance on an adjoining parcel next to my factory for $30,000. and my investor friend sold the property 3 years later for $205,000. It is possible the property would make you more money than the sign business. This is simplistic talk, but depending on the condition of the property, value direction in the area, etc. it is worthy of consideration. All people selling Real Estate expect an offer and raise the price to adjust for that offer. The owner can hope for 8%, but I doubt she will get it. If she seriously wants to sell, she is looking for an offer.
-------------------- Bob Nugent Hotrodsonline.com Gainesville, GA 30506 hotrod@hotrodsonline.com Posts: 46 | From: Gainesville, Georgia | Registered: Mar 2003
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Monsoon winds blow shingles and tiles off the roof? "Hello Mrs Landlord..."
A drunk driver crashes through the garage and obliterates everything? "Hey policeman, here's my lanlord's name and number, I'm going to IHOP for breakfast. Catch ya'll when I get back."
Rent is 1/3 what a mortgage would cost me, not to mention the taxes, insurance and then having to take care of all the "problems" on top of it.
Barry, $1200 for 7,000 sq ft? Smokin' deal compared to the rising costs in this desert sandtrap. I know of places in town that are $1500 for about 1200 sq ft with a bay door.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
Barry, if ya make a buy deal, you are now paying into your equity fund, not throwing away dollars monthly, never to see them again. If things don't work out over time, sell YOUR building,which is different than moving from theirs.....I'd jump on that chance. Approach the SBA for a shop owners loan, they come w/lower interest rates then public finacing...make your world work for you. I find it hard to believe your venture wouldn't benefit from such a move, I'd paint the outside real nice and drag in that new business. Make your mark early, while you still can, don't turn 60 wishing you had've................
-------------------- Frank Magoo, Magoo's-Las Vegas; fmagoo@netzero.com "the only easy day was yesterday" Posts: 2365 | From: Las Vegas, Nv. | Registered: Jun 2003
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Did I understand you correctly, 7,000 square foot for $1200 a month in rent?!!!
Here is a link for a place near me, $4.50 per square foot!! Concord Crossing It's a place that went belly up that used to make rides for amusement parks.
Around here $300,000 is the price for a nice house!!
Buy it, if nothing else, rent out the other half. At least you can control who's there.
Best of luck to you.
-------------------- Mike Berry New England Posts: 534 | From: New England | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
Ohh I remember the day when the owner of the apartment building I was renting in came to me and asked if I wanted to buy his building, a cool 90K was his price. It was a 6 unit building and 90K was a higher investment then I was willing to spend.
Wellllll 3 years later some chinese man from Boston came and bought it for 365K
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
It's only gonna be more expensive later and the rates are good right now.
A few thoughts to add... I'd make a few calls and see if someone would lease the other part of the building out for 5 years. Contact a few realtors in the area and see if anyone's looking for space. After the 5 years is up, you'll have the option to expand into the rest of the building. If not, you can always continue to lease it.
my 2 cents... Rapid
-------------------- Ray Rheaume Rapidfire Design 543 Brushwood Road North Haverhill, NH 03774 rapidfiredesign@hotmail.com 603-787-6803
I like my paint shaken, not stirred. Posts: 5648 | From: North Haverhill, New Hampshire | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
Like a moth to a flame I am drawn back to this thread. I can understand that someone can't afford to purchase a building and that is one thing. I can't grasp someone saying that they prefer to rent. How can you prefer to take the bulk of the rewards of your labor and give it to someone else every month so that they can buy the building and build equity and keep the rewards of your labor. If the building appreciates, that is money in your pocket. Most of us have the equity in our homes as the bulk of our estates and that has come from rising equity. I promise that htis will be my last post of this one....Maybe..!!
-------------------- Bob Nugent Hotrodsonline.com Gainesville, GA 30506 hotrod@hotrodsonline.com Posts: 46 | From: Gainesville, Georgia | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
I'm with Bob & Frank... either buy it & expand, buy it & lease to expand later (guess I'm with Ray too ) ...or at least rent it all & sublease to the neighbor of your choosing.
...or, at the very very least, next time you re-negotiate your own lease (hell, do that right now, no reason you gotta wait) get a clause that they will never rent to a competing busines (or allow ant tenant to become competing business)
If there is any way you can, try to buy it. Not only for the control of the property, but then at least when you want to retire, sell the business, etc. you'll have more to show for the monthly payment than a stack of rent receipts.
Doug has a great idea if you have to lease, get a clause that there can't be a competiting business next door.
-------------------- Chris Welker Wildfire Signs Indiana, Pa Posts: 4254 | From: Indiana, PA | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
Barry, I've been to the flea market that was next door to you and looked at your building and location. It AIN'T worth 300,000, unless the property goes all the way out to highway 65 and then I would seriously question that price tag. I recently purchased the lot with a three bedroom house that adjoins my shop property for considerably less than $100,000. I know north Arkansas property is higher than down here in the southern part but I doubt that much difference. If you're serious about purchasing it, I would offer alot less,a whole lot less. You can't ever tell, she might take you up on your offer. Just my two cents! By-the-way, when are you going to come visit?
-------------------- Frisby Signs, Inc. El Dorado, Arkansas Posts: 902 | From: El Dorado, Arkansas, USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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Roy...I appreciate you saying that. I have had a realtor buddy of mine look at it, and he agrees with you. The 300 K figure does include the land all the way to 65. Frankly that might be worth more than my building, except it is in the flood plain, and would require 50-75 K worth of fill work before it could be used for anything but a billboard.
Other factors at play:
The lady is a very sharp 80+ in age, and is okay to rent from, but she has a son that does NOT want her to sell the property. If she couldn't get what she's asking, or close, then we are S.O.L. She's not hurting to sell.
Rent wise I am okay. For now i think that is my best option. If I don't rent both sides, I will DEFINITELY have that clause you suggested added, Doug.
posted
how far out are you signed up for currently?
Maybe you should offer her the "lot less" even though you are pretty sure that she will say no... then that could lead in to you discussing extending your current lease. (if you would even consider buying, that tells me you want to stay)
I always renew my lease while I still have over 2 years in the bag because I moved my shop once & if I ever have to again, I'll want 2 years to plan it out, PLUS I think my landlord could double the rent for the next guy thanks to well over 15K in improvements I've done... but if he was ever thinking about doubling it while I'm still here... a 2 year cushion will reduce the chance that he will get greedy & reduce the chance I will give in if he does.
Anyway, the reason I suggested negotiating the next extension of your lease period is because you shouldn't just go in asking for a clause to be added to your lease... that is a little bargin chip in her corner that she doesn't even know she has yet, so wait until you are sliding chips across the table anyway trying to get some meaningful business done that she can take to the bank... then you will have a chance of getting that little clause that will seem like nothing to her in the grand scheme of things... but would be too much trouble to even type out a lease amendment if there's nothing in it for her. (also, offering to buy the building will make her appreciate your tenancy more if she thinks you may be shopping around for a building... which could work in your favor if you dod want to extend your lease)
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
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Suppose just for the sake of argument that you found another building in your area that was for sale at a great price and you bought it. Would you be willing to move into a new building that you owned or would you continue to rent from your present landlord who soon will turn into the the son who inherits it from momma. He may not love you as much as you think. He may kick your butt out the moment your lease comes up and turn it into a rave club.
If you had your own building you could care less about whether the landlord took your deal because you have a backup.
All hypothetical, of course.
This will be my absolute last post on this subject, unless it needs a pithy and poignant reply, at which time I will come flying to the rescue.
-------------------- Bob Nugent Hotrodsonline.com Gainesville, GA 30506 hotrod@hotrodsonline.com Posts: 46 | From: Gainesville, Georgia | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
Barry, why don't you tell them you deserve some of their business and open a flea market at your house.
-------------------- Ricky Jackson Signs Now 614 Russell Parkway Warner Robins, GA (478) 923-7722 signpimp50@hotmail.com
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Sir Issac Newton Posts: 3528 | From: Warner Robins, GA | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
Barry, I did'nt get to read all these replies . . .
but I read yours and I'm here to tell you, they DO deserve some of your business . . . They fully deserve, AND they AXED for, all those customers who happen into your place . . . those 'Cheap-We-don't-care-what-it-looks-like-just-how-much it-costs' kind'a folks . . .
Now don't lie, we ALL get them types, and I think you should be THANKFUL & GRATEFUL for the flea-market guy making himself available to you like he has. Why, you should be keepin' him wrapped up with SIGNS to do FOR LESS as per his business name . . . sheesh Barry, what is WRONG with you??? Help a brutha' out and send him some people who need dirt cheap signs for less . . .
Hey, mabey he needs more 'truth in advertising' too. . . he might ought to call his place: <LESS-THAN SIGNS FOR LESS>
Some motto ideas could be:
~'Not much IN over head' (3-way pun)
~'Our signs are not 'greater-than' you can afford . . .no, they are not great at all!'
~'Do you need less-than-greater signs! See us!'
~'Less is more with a cheap-sign wh . . . .!" WOOPS! That rhymes!
~'If less is what you expect, WE CAN DO IT!'
~'Wholesale signage for less-than cost!'
~'Less-minded people like us!'
See Barry. We can be helpful to those who do so much to help us . . .
-------------------- Signs Sweet Home Alabama
oneshot on chat
"Look like a girl, act like a lady, think like a man, work like a dog" Posts: 5758 | From: "Sweet Home" Alabama | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
jus stick your phone # big & bold on Coroplast over his door/window & service the people who call - -borrowing an expression from Elvis Presley - "Takin Care of Business - In a Flash"
-------------------- Carl Wood Olive Branch, Ms Posts: 1392 | From: Olive Branch,MS USA | Registered: Nov 1999
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An accounting firm???
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WOOPS! That rhymes!
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