posted
I'm forcing myself to learn to do layouts in Illustrator CS instead of Flexi because I've got CS at home and prefer it over Corel and Flexi.
My problem is that I can't get type to go larger than 1296 points. I have to convert it to outlines, then make it bigger manually, which really sucks when you want to change the font.
Is there some obvious way around this I'm just missing?
-------------------- Pat Whatley Montgomery, AL (334) 262-7446 office (334) 324-8465 cell Posts: 1306 | From: Wetumpka, AL USA | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
Why not work to scale and enlarge it in a new file before printing, therefore preserving the original that has your fonts before converting to outlines?
It seems that would be a lot more managable, so far as ram is concerned, and solve the problem you're asking about.
Illustrator is not Flexi. I know this is a compromise to do it this way, but it's a viable workaround. If not, hang in there, I'm sure there will be some other ideas following mine.
posted
The way I do it is by adjusting it with the "Horizontal" and "Vertical" scale in the "Character" window, though I have only had to do this once, I use CadTools and design in scale. I accidently found the size limitation and just tried that trick and it worked.....I have no idea why there is a limit, but I am curious as to the reason.....
-------------------- Rick Chavez Hemet, CA Posts: 1539 | From: Hemet,CA U.S.A. | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
Patrick: I concur with Don's approach. Work in scale.
I have been working with Illustrator since 1990, and right from the "get go"I have used a 1-10 scale. Try this out. I also set my type using "points" as my setting. {ie} 6 point type = 6" when enlarged to 1000%. Try this out and see if it helps you out. If you like it start RIGHT NOW to train yourself to work your layouts this way.
EXAMPLE:
say you are doing a 18" x 24" real estate sign. Set up your page in Illustrator on a standard 8.5 x 11 sheet. Now put a box (this represents the 18"x24") that measures 2.4" wide X 1.8" high with a black outline, NO FILL.
Fill in any text you want to use, so that it looks good optically to you. You can use any font, any size as you are building the sign layout. I assume that you know that by "highlighting" type you can go back to just a single word, or phrase and change the font within the text to be different style and size while it is still in this phase. {prior to converting it to outlines}. Anyway, when you get the sign looking close to what you want, just convert type to outlines. From there you can ungroup the letters if necessary, and scale any element to better fit the panel.
You can make a complete layout for a 4'x 8'sign {or any size you want} the same way. 4.8 x 9.6 = 48" x96". IMPORTANT IMPORTANT IMPORTANT
When you are ready to plot, or print your vinyl, just open the file and enlarge to 1000% of the original file, and plot. It will be exactly to scale.
Give it a try.
If you have ANY problems drop me an E mail, and give me your phone number. I'd be glad to walk you through this. It is NOT nearly as complicated as it my seem here..
Regards,
Bob
-------------------- Bob Cole American Sign Company 14163 Akron Canfield Rd. Berlin Center, Ohio 44401
A.K.A. Vinylman® Posts: 575 | From: Berlin Center, Ohio, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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4.8" to 48" is 10x, not 1000x, or am I missing something?
Thanks!
-------------------- "Stewey" on chat
"...there are no limits when you aim for perfection..." Jonathan Livingston Seagull Posts: 7014 | From: Highgrove via Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia | Registered: Dec 2002
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-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
posted
Patrick, I'd suggest you look into getting the cadtools plugin for Illustrator. Considering what you want it to do, this would make your life a whole lot easier.
posted
Either I'm missing something or there is a flaw in the 10-1 math used by Robert here,.....for example,...there are twelve inches to a foot.If you divide the twelve by ten you get 1.2 so you would have to multiply any inches by that factor. Thus,...an 18"x24" panel would be 1.5 x 2 , not 1.8x2.4,which would be close but not acurate enough to insure proper reproduction scales.
The cadtools plugin sounds more like the answer to your problem Pat,.....
hope this helps ya!
-------------------- fly low...timi/NC is, Tim Barrow Barrow Art Signs Winston-Salem,NC Posts: 2224 | From: Winston-Salem,NC,USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I think you'll find that proportionally 1.8 x 2.4 is exactly the same as 1.5 x 2 - albeit the scale is different. And unless I'm missing something, 1.8 x 2.4 x 10 (or 1000%) = 18" x 24" ?
-------------------- Graham Parsons Signs 'n Such Ltd Swift Current Saskatchewan Canada. www.signsnsuch.com
"Saskatchewan - hard to pronounce, easy to draw" Posts: 710 | From: Saskatchewan, Canada | Registered: Oct 1999
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I think you'll find that proportionally 1.8 x 2.4 is exactly the same as 1.5 x 2 - albeit the scale is different. And unless I'm missing something, 1.8 x 2.4 x 10 (or 1000%) = 18" x 24" ?
The metric-ing of standard measurement, hey aren;t we supposed to be metric too?.....Before CadTools, I would make things full size (if it fit within Illustrators drawing parameters) and then scale it down 8.33333% to get 1"=1'-0" then fit it to a page with what an architectural scale has. When drawing in scale, I tend to stick to what my architectural (or if I have to design in metric) what metric scale has. That way I can use my scaled print out to place my lettering correctly on the substrate.
-------------------- Rick Chavez Hemet, CA Posts: 1539 | From: Hemet,CA U.S.A. | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
In the past dealing with architects and engineers I was taught to use an engineers scale and or architectual scale,as per industry standards. Patrick is here in the United States where if he uses a scale he needs it to be in inches and feet for a majority of practical reproduction purposes.There are no decimal equivilents on our rulers when it comes to a fraction of a foot,only twelve incremants we call inches.If I am not mistaken Illustrator uses by default,...inches and feet unless you reset the rulers. Thus if your scale is 10 inches equals 1 inch the math is correct,...however most people here in the states use a 1" equals one foot scale as is standard on achitectural scale rulers. If he followed the directions as stated he would end up with the equivilant of one foot and eight tenths(9.6 inches) of a foot not the half foot(six inches) he desires.
Granted to say there is a big difference in ratios and scales but the disscussion was refering to scales,in my understanding either architectural and or engineering.Either way no one in their right mind is going to put out a drawing for reproduction in a scale where 1"=10", when industry standards call for 1"=1'
-------------------- fly low...timi/NC is, Tim Barrow Barrow Art Signs Winston-Salem,NC Posts: 2224 | From: Winston-Salem,NC,USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Heck..If everyone used CorelDraw..with virtually no size limitations (including fonts)..there wouldn't be a problem!
What's wrong with working in full size?
( BTW I understood Robert's thinking. It is a matter of percentages/scaling, not inches and feet)
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
posted
What wrong in working in full size is presentations to the customer/architect/builder-in scale and printable form, printouts for installers to measure off of. On a simple coro, banner or basic sign, then it's probably no big deal. Corel has scale built into it and I have used it with great success, CadTools is expensive, but has much better control, layer/scale controls and update tools that work better. It's all about your business priorities, if I did vinyl signs or onsey twosey architectural signs all day long, Corel is worth every penny, you can also do larger projects on it too, but multiple scales on one page are a pain, but I would still work in scale simply because I would want an installer to stick the lettering on the right spot, a scaled drawing will insure that instead of eyeballing it.
-------------------- Rick Chavez Hemet, CA Posts: 1539 | From: Hemet,CA U.S.A. | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
In Corel, I always work in scale. My default drawing space is at 3/4"=1'-0", unless the sign is particularly large or small.
When it comes time to produce the job, I select what is to be cut and scale it 1600% and save that portion as xxxFULL SIZE.cdr. I save that drawing in a 1:1 scale so I won't get a heart attack from thinking the sign will be 200' long if I click on an object and the size shows up on my property bar. From that file, I do my exporting to my cutting program.
I usually keep all objects on a page in the same scale but sometimes I will do a detail section at 200% or 400%, which would work out to 1-1/2"=1'-0" or 3"=1'-0" (quarter scale).
I have a yellow architect's scale on my desk and my engineer's scale has the grooves painted yellow. Everyone in my office is too yellow to attempt to remove them from my desk. They stay here by me.
-------------------- David Harding A Sign of Excellence Carrollton, TX Posts: 5099 | From: Carrollton, TX, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Thanks Dave- I was sleepy & have the flu too & didn't notice the "%" after 1000! (sorry )
-------------------- "Stewey" on chat
"...there are no limits when you aim for perfection..." Jonathan Livingston Seagull Posts: 7014 | From: Highgrove via Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia | Registered: Dec 2002
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posted
just take the flexi dongle home & install the program there too, then take the dongle home whenever you want to work in Flexi at home. Do the illustrator option on the days you didn't plan on working at home but decide to anyway.
Robert Cole's explanation makes perfect sense & has worked very well for me for over 10 years also.
quote:Granted to say there is a big difference in ratios and scales but the disscussion was refering to scales,in my understanding either architectural and or engineering.Either way no one in their right mind is going to put out a drawing for reproduction in a scale where 1"=10", when industry standards call for 1"=1'
I have to disagree Timi, first of all "scale" can refer to the mathmatical equation... not just the tools for measuring scale drawings... & in this case, the first reply was a suggestion to work to a smaller scale in one program & enlarge to full size in another program... never anything about scale drawings or any need to measure scale drawings. But to go even further, engineer scales DO work as 1/10th of an inch = 1" & that is an "industry standard" for engineering
[ August 25, 2005, 01:15 AM: Message edited by: Doug Allan ]
posted
The industry standard you speak of Doug is for I/10 of an inch equals 1 foot,not typically used in the manner you speak of,but when used in a ratio as you speak of it will work,...the exception here would be for machining parts not architectural amenities such as signage. All of the blueprints I've ever bid on were in a scale that measurements equaled a foot not inches.
edited to ask,...why on earth would you send a scaled drawing out to a fabricator for a sign cabinet with an equation for decimal equivilants for inches that are aproximate,when you can be accurate?
posted
this post never was... & still is not at all about scale drawings, & neither is my reply about drawings.
you may know that your sign black is 1-1/2 FEET by 2 FEET... but if you go ahead with roberts 1/10 scale idea & make it 1.8" x 2.4" ... then it is blazing fast mental math to add 1/4" borders (.025") half an inch from the edge (.05") with 2-1/2" main copy (.25) 4-3/8" away from the 6-3/8" x 3-7/8" logo (.4375" away, .6375" x .3875"
...if you've been doing it regularly for 10 years it seem so obviously worthy of mentioning to someone here with questions on that very issue... if not, then I guess it must seem stupid
posted
Didn't mean to insult anyone here,..just trying to state standard practice in use of scales,...I merely tried to add to the discussion,the practical use of scales and ratios in a manner that is acceptable in most of the mechanical prints I have encountered while bidding and submitting plans over the years to architectural and engineering firms. If you are going to try and help someone why not involve the practical application of the procedures others have suggested? The mathmatical equation may work in illustrator but how often is it used in the real world for signage and architectural amenities? I've been looking at blueprints and drawings for several decades and never have I seen a print or plan using a scale anything like .1"=1" with the exception of mecahnical drawings of machine parts. Granted the ratio will fuction as a work around for the lack of proper scaling functions in illustrator, but when you start talking about industry standard scales that equation is rarely used by the professional on a blueprint or plans for signage.
-------------------- fly low...timi/NC is, Tim Barrow Barrow Art Signs Winston-Salem,NC Posts: 2224 | From: Winston-Salem,NC,USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Saying "...no one in their right mind is going to" do such & such... or "why on earth would you" do so & so ... would only be insulting if anyone here was ever doing whatever it was you were talking about, but since nobody was... I don't see any problem.
I think Rick added clearly the option of 8.33% for working backwards from full size drawings to create 1" = 1' scale drawings. That has also come in quite handy in the 20 years of signmaking since I quit working as a draftsman... but for working forwards where full size drawings are not an option, as Patrick needed, it is much more cumbersome math.
posted
Here is how I would do it. Go to the page layout and make it the size of your background. Say 4' by 8". Type in your text as big as you can, change it to outlines, zoom out until see the entire background, choose the scale tool and drag that sucker as big as you want.
I do all my flame masking this way and my last one was 130 inches long for a Dodge Magnum.
-------------------- Bob Nugent Hotrodsonline.com Gainesville, GA 30506 hotrod@hotrodsonline.com Posts: 46 | From: Gainesville, Georgia | Registered: Mar 2003
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"That'll Be The Day"...(Buddy Holly, for the younger viewers)
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
posted
Okay, while I do have an architects scale, an engineers scale, and a breifcase full of inherited slide-rules I have absolutely no desire to EVER have to deal with those things again. Sorry for the ratio/scale confusion.
Robert Coles idea will work meanwhile. The upcoming Illustrator patch will solve the issue.
-------------------- Pat Whatley Montgomery, AL (334) 262-7446 office (334) 324-8465 cell Posts: 1306 | From: Wetumpka, AL USA | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
Tech support guy called it a patch. Supposedly gonna make bigger letters possible. He had no idea when it might be available and suggest I work smaller.
-------------------- Pat Whatley Montgomery, AL (334) 262-7446 office (334) 324-8465 cell Posts: 1306 | From: Wetumpka, AL USA | Registered: Mar 2001
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