posted
I have this customer, Or whatever you call him, Who purchased a few acrylic sign faces from me and also some hand painted mural work for a Boxing Gym. From the start, this guy was a swindler, There was a pole sign that was split ,Top to bottom for 2 businesses. Well, I did both signs for the Gym and for a Luxury Car Lot that was in the same complex. So the Guy with the Gym tells me. "charge the guy next door extra and take it off my bill for getting you the job" So , Me, I'm like whatever, SOunded shady, but , I quoted the guy next door what I wanted and still charged the Gym guy what I was going to charge. Well the guy next door pays right on time and this Boxing gym guy still owes me $500 from around $2000 that he owed me. I stopped in on him NUMEROUS times to collect and he offered me a lifetime membership to his Gym, So I told him , Fine ,But you still owe me $500 bucks and I will take the membership for all my aggravation. So this guy , disappears, Business closes , I call him and he tells me he "got some things going on" and that he is partners with so and so across town who happens to need a new sign so go do his sign and charge him $500 bucks more and call it even, ok? So , I basically tell him, He's lucky were on the phone because I might have had a reaction and clocked him him (on accident)ahem! if we were face to face. So anyway, A few weeks ago somebody told me he opened up in another building so I found it a few days ago and I've been stopping by everyday to see him but he's never there. (And, by the way , he took the acrylic faces out of the lighted box and screwed them into the wall!!!)So two days ago, I went in and they told me he would be there in a few minutes so I figured I'd get a pump on with my "free lifetime membership" while I waited right? I start on my biceps and I don't get into the 3rd set when a lady approaches me...Excuse me sir, Do you have a membership? So , me , I'm like of course , (Smilimg) in a matter of fact attitude. "I have a lifetime membership from the last location.... " So she says, Oh, sorry, but those memberships don't apply here and she goes on about fees and insurance etc etc. Now , I'm ****ed , as If I wasn't ****ed before. But I understand my beef is not with her, so I just smile and walk out. So today, I finally catch him there...He gives me this song and dance about grants and investors and $40,000 and spending every penny in the new building and,and,and,and.....So , I'm just looking at him , knowing If I said anything , It would be a fistfight right there. Its been over 6 months since I did the work and I really want to wreck something of his, just to get him back...any creative ideas?
posted
the one time in 13.5 yrs in business someone was really late paying me($150)not a big deal... but...he was a painting contractor and so when he put out a jobsite sign i stopped on the side of the road...took out the drill and bye bye with me it went...i use it when soldering stain glass..aluminum panels catch the drippings perfect. i'd rather destroy something they didn't pay for than for them to have it for free.
-------------------- Karyn Bush Simply Not Ordinary, LLC Bartlett, NH 603-383-9955 www.snosigns.com info@snosigns.com Posts: 3516 | From: Bartlett, NH USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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-------------------- Maker of fine signs and other creative stuff. Located at 109 N. Cumberland ave. Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-837-0242 Posts: 4172 | From: Ages-Brookside, Ky. Up the Holler... | Registered: Jul 1999
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He suggested you run up the bill on the other customer and cut him a break. He offered you an exchange for payment with his free membership. You accepted. He goes belly up. He again suggests running up the bill on someone else to cover his debt. Then, in a stroke of professionalism, you tell him you'd do him harm were he in front of you at that time. After he opens elsewhere, you waste your time daily going in there looking for him. He has now taken the sign faces and re-used them. The free lifetime membership ain't worth bumpkis, smile and walk out. You finally catch up with this crook and stand there letting him continue his crap.
Here's two creative suggestions...
Snap out of it and get a lawyer.
or
Stand in front of a mirror and yell at the guy who let this happen. If you feel compelled to hit HIM, it'll only be a mirror, not a lawsuit or asault charge that you'll face after.
Sorry, Dawud, but you'll get no pity or condolences from me on this one. There were so many red flags on this guy it must have looked like an invasion by Russia. Rapid
-------------------- Ray Rheaume Rapidfire Design 543 Brushwood Road North Haverhill, NH 03774 rapidfiredesign@hotmail.com 603-787-6803
I like my paint shaken, not stirred. Posts: 5648 | From: North Haverhill, New Hampshire | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
Nothing like this has ever happened to you has it Ray. I dont think he was asking for compassion, just stating facts of a job that went haywire. He made some mistakes, as have we all, but aint no reason to push his face in the dirt.
-------------------- Maker of fine signs and other creative stuff. Located at 109 N. Cumberland ave. Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-837-0242 Posts: 4172 | From: Ages-Brookside, Ky. Up the Holler... | Registered: Jul 1999
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posted
No, John, not to this degree. I've never allowed it to and neither should Dawud have.
I have had my share of difficulties in the past with customers trying to give me the run around on paying their bills and being difficult to work with. I doubt anyone here hasn't had it happen to them.
My real concern is that Dawud is getting very emotional about this. The title of the post says as much.
There is no customer worth resorting to violence. NONE!
I've spent time barking about how bad a customer has treated me in the past...and myself for letting them. In every case, letting them was the real problem.
I really do stand in front of that mirror myself. Makes you look at the person most responsible...and he knows it deep down. Rapid
-------------------- Ray Rheaume Rapidfire Design 543 Brushwood Road North Haverhill, NH 03774 rapidfiredesign@hotmail.com 603-787-6803
I like my paint shaken, not stirred. Posts: 5648 | From: North Haverhill, New Hampshire | Registered: Apr 2003
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My mind wanders. And that's not a good thing, 'cause it's too small to be out there alone. Posts: 3129 | From: Tooele, UT | Registered: Mar 2005
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Boy, reading that case makes me mad. I'm sorry to hear about it.
It seems to me there are two issue's here. The First is the blatant lie's and usery. I've also been taken to the cleaners a time or two, and the feeling is hard to describe. Added to the finacial burden is the emotional divit. It's hard to get over.
The second is your legal rights. Don is correct on this. File in small claims court. At least you can get his attention. I'd pay to have a personal server deliver the notice. That way it's done promptly. Be sure you file it against him though, just as the invoice indicates.
Also post large notices at your business, " We don't do business with company" showing and enlarged unpaid invoice. I'd even post a picture of him. He only cares about loss of business.
Joe
Good luck
-------------------- Joe Crumley Norman Sign Company 2200 Research Park Blvd. Norman, OK 73069 Posts: 1428 | From: 2200 Research Park Blvd. | Registered: Sep 2001
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posted
One thing that we did that worked great here in Canada is you can paut a construction lean on the business for the amount oweing. Nothing will happen until he tries to borrow money and then S**t will hit the fan because he has to come straight with you before he can get any funding. trust me it worked for me many years ago, it also makes the business world more fun!
posted
"There is no customer worth resorting to violence. NONE!" oh yea....when its no longer is a money problem then it becomes personal. and sometime nothin is better then feelin you fist upside some lowlife THIEFS head.....and then standing over them..and them knowing you can now do as you please..WITH THEM!!!! such satifaction...then the money dont matter anymore....heheheheheheheheheehhe
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I think I am past the going by there at 12:30 am and tossing a few bricks through his window phase. The sign is pretty high up , and I'm not sure what he used to install it. But I think i'm going to give it a shot at getting my sign back. Only problem is that originally it was a double sided sign (2 panels) and I'm afraid he might have another on hand if I take the one he has on the bulding because only one on them is currently hung up. No offense taken ,Ray I don't feel like you pushed my face in the dirt. I saw the red flags. It was definately my mistake for dealing with him in the first place. I don't think I would hit him over money. (unless he talked to me sideways) Then I would probably clock him. I'm really not that emotional over it Ray, I mean , My rent is paid and the kids eat everyday.I'm not broke over it. Its mainly principle. As for taking him to small claims court, It costs money to do that, and the time , and the only thing they will do here is place a judgement on him, (as If he doesnt already have one) I think I'll just go get my sign , and who knows , something might accidentally hit his window too!
posted
You can not legally remove his sign. It is his, whether he finished paying for it or not, and no longer yours. You will committing a crime if you use the Midnight Sign Removal crew.
It sucks getting screwed. I can think of a few times when I got screwed. It still makes me angry. Fotunately, it get easier to deal with and all I can do now is not let it happen to me again.
-------------------- Bruce Bowers
DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter Posts: 6451 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
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posted
At least you'll never do business with him again, or any other's who give that 'shady' appearance . . . It's actually a good experience for guaging these types. Next 'suspected' shady customer to come down the road, either run them off, or they pay 100% up-front, right?!
And them people who can't be describe as 'shady', but who just give you that 'feeling'?? Let them pay 3/4 of the job down, and pay the balance after veiwing the finished sign in-shop, BEFORE it leaves the shop.
Retribution or vigilanty actions are unwise, and could end up being on the front page of the news more than likely casting you as the bad sign guy who messes up signs to get more work. Not a good business rep to have.
A contract/paperwork system of signatures and cleared-check down-payments is always the way to go.
If you still can't 'read' a shady type, know this: The only customers who EVER balk at, or try to avoid standard contractual business formalities are shady types.
They're the one's who 'pretend' to be 'big' business people who don't ever, and have no intention of starting to pay their bills or honoring agreements.
To 'force the hand' of a shady-type of 'normal' appearances and reveal any verbal manipulation, present details of the work to be done, and ask for signatures and explain how the down-payment check has to clear the bank before the work will begin, etc. . . .a shady-type will immediately start back-pedalin', although some will hang onto their poker-face and scribble out a check.
Then, ask him for references of other businesses he's been associated with successfully. . . .then look at your watch and time how fast he 'changes his mind', gets in his vehicle and splits . . .how abrupt!....How rude! Goodness!
(If you actually get a check and signatures, try to cash the check and if it actually goes through, you may have been simply makin' a perfectly innocent customer really nervous with all these intimidatin' business requirements! LOL. . .
posted
duuude....get yerself a paint gun and shoot the crap outta of it...at nite of course...that way you at least ruin them which will make you feel better that he can't use them.
paint gun....or a real good pellet gun...giver er a few pumps and shatter the mf.
but in the giant scheme of things...i truly believe in my heart...what goes around...comes around....ya make a vudoo doll of him and take some pins and....nah shyt i'm only kidding.
seriously though...the best thing to do is let the universe deal with this cockbite....ya know after you shatter the panels.
-------------------- Karyn Bush Simply Not Ordinary, LLC Bartlett, NH 603-383-9955 www.snosigns.com info@snosigns.com Posts: 3516 | From: Bartlett, NH USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3484 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
I remember the guy that had his new car painted yellow and had lemon lettered on it big and hired a crane to hoist this dnagling wonder in front of the dealership that sold it. The issue was rapidly resolved.
A crook banner on a truck parked outside is as illegal for him to remove as it is for you to damage his property.
If you can't just move on and forget the loss and not become consumed by bitterness, there are legal recourses.
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6713 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Small claims court. Labor Lien....Labor Lien ... Labor Lien ..... In your claim, state that he had paid you for all the materials and part of the labor. The balance owed is ALL LABOR. File it under his name, Doing Business As ...whatever name. You will easily get a judgement. Then apply for a "Labor Lien". Much stronger than just a judgement of debt. He will not get: New credit cards, business loans, home equity loan, vehicle financing etc, etc.
[ August 24, 2005, 08:53 AM: Message edited by: William Holohan ]
-------------------- William "Irish" Holohan Resting...Read "Between Jobs." Marlboro, MA 01752 email: firemap1@aol.com Posts: 1110 | From: Marlboro, MA | Registered: Dec 2001
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Here it costs $10 dollars to file in small claims cour with a limit of $2,500 and is very easy and fast. You don't need a lawyer.
You can only file a Labor Lien on the property where the work was done.
Dawud, it's not very hard to file a legal complaint for losses in small claims.
-------------------- Joe Crumley Norman Sign Company 2200 Research Park Blvd. Norman, OK 73069 Posts: 1428 | From: 2200 Research Park Blvd. | Registered: Sep 2001
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posted
i know there are differences in the way the UK and the US work, and even the way things are interpreted in the law from people in the same countries !
but i always make a point of stating on the bottom of the invoive, quote, etc, that the sign or any gods remain the oproperty of my until paid for in full, if they sign your terms then they canot wriggle out of it later on,
there was a big discussion on uksignboards about this, i think the main issue was of trespass rather than theft, if you can reach it without going onto his land then i don't see a prob,
personally, i like the negative advert for him idea more than small claims, scum like this know how to work the system and it's how they start up one new business after another !
quote:No offense taken ,Ray I don't feel like you pushed my face in the dirt. I saw the red flags.
I apologize Ray. I was mistaken.
-------------------- Maker of fine signs and other creative stuff. Located at 109 N. Cumberland ave. Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-837-0242 Posts: 4172 | From: Ages-Brookside, Ky. Up the Holler... | Registered: Jul 1999
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posted
As much as I'd like to jump on the bandwagon and "make him pay", the best course of action would be, as Bruce said, take him to small claims court. Don't remove the sign; you have no need of it and if you do the judge may rule in his favor because you took it back. But hey, next time you're going to be a few hundred miles away from home and it's well documented with plenty of witnesses and maybe you've got a friend that likes to even things out, hehehe. Naaaaaaaaahhhhh, just kidding (wink wink).
-------------------- Ricky Jackson Signs Now 614 Russell Parkway Warner Robins, GA (478) 923-7722 signpimp50@hotmail.com
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Sir Issac Newton Posts: 3528 | From: Warner Robins, GA | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
Laws are made to protect the a****s that do this type of thing and they know it.The court thing is bs unless there is enough mony in it.Take the sign down and hide it,possesion is 9/10 of the law in my book.Put the burden on him to prove you have the sign.I could tell you some stories about collecting mony,in 32 years of business I been screwed out of $15.00 part lucky part crazy but I always get the do-ray-me!
posted
I would tell them that if the signs can be moved to a new location, then your "Lifetime Membership" should transfer also. How many people from the old location paid for a lifetime membership that isn't any good either. This guy is a snake just from what he has asked you to do to other people. Sorry to hear about this. I've experienced similar and you just have to learn from it.
posted
I wouldn't touch that "lifetime membership" with a 10 foot pole! You'd be thinking of it every time you used his Jim, and he'd think he's really evened things out if you started using his gym.
I'm thinking you should go over in broad daylight with your ladder and drill and start removing the sign. Hopefully, he'd cough up the money while you are on the ladder.
I believe in karma too, sit back and watch him get his. It WILL happen.
Suelynn
-------------------- "It is never too late to be what you might have been." -George Eliot
Suelynn Sedor Sedor Signs Carnduff, SK Canada Posts: 2863 | From: Carnduff, SK Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Just thought of something else...what if you let him know that his two buddies he was trying to rip off were going to be enlightened. If he is low enough to try to get you to tack extra onto THEIR bills, how many other people has he done that to? That is just wrong!!!
-------------------- "It is never too late to be what you might have been." -George Eliot
Suelynn Sedor Sedor Signs Carnduff, SK Canada Posts: 2863 | From: Carnduff, SK Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I had a customer who did that sort of thing to me, then found he did it to my WHOLE TOWN, including the constable!!!!!!
We were at Wally World one day, & lo & behold, there were his magnets that he never paid for on his truck. My husband pealed them right off while i was saying, "No!no!no! you will get us caught & in trouble!"
When we got home, Jon nailed them to the floor of our shed where they are now doormats! He never got caught.
-------------------- The Word in Signs Bobbie Rochow Jamestown, PA 16134
724-927-6471
thewordinsigns@alltel.net Posts: 3485 | From: Jamestown, PA 16134 | Registered: Oct 2002
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posted
Make up a coroplast placard on a pole and march up and down outside for a while. I've used this method with success - paid within 5 minutes of showing up.
-------------------- Graham Parsons Signs 'n Such Ltd Swift Current Saskatchewan Canada. www.signsnsuch.com
"Saskatchewan - hard to pronounce, easy to draw" Posts: 710 | From: Saskatchewan, Canada | Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
I made and installed some signs for a building contractor that never paid me (the old "hey buddy, my good ole buddy" line). I printed up a bunch of "Mike Carter Doesn't Pay His Bills" lables on the Edge and posted them on gas pumps, drive thru windows, ATM's, and everywhere I went. Wasn't long that he filed bankruptcy and I've never heard from him again. I lost about $300 on the job, he paid the deposit and we installed them and didn't get paid ("Oh man, I forgot my checkbook! I'll get a check right out to you."). Putting out the lables did make me feel better and allowed me to "direct" his karma just a tad.
-------------------- Ricky Jackson Signs Now 614 Russell Parkway Warner Robins, GA (478) 923-7722 signpimp50@hotmail.com
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Sir Issac Newton Posts: 3528 | From: Warner Robins, GA | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
I hear there is this chemical..it is clear, and smells like rotten eggs......poured on the carpet, that outta clear the room for a couple of weeks....
posted
most of those acylic faces are polycarbonite, UNBREAKABLE....EXCEPT FOR A 12 GA.....BLAST!!!!
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
here's a funny twist on Karma... I had a guy I posted about once recently who stopped paying his bills $300 short of finishing paying me. He was on a major drunken binge. Anyway I kept thinking about removing the nice decals off one of the 2 brand new trucks I had applied them to. I also kept thinking of similar threads here where that was identified as illegal. Well, one day the opportunity presented itself in the Lowes parking lot & I just couldn't resist. I only got about 1/4 of the logo off of one side before I was too nervous to spend any longer (I parked real close to that door... but it was broad daylight (no name on my truck yet at that point )
..so, next morning I had mixed feelings & decided to reprint the decal so it would be ready if the guy came around to pay up. Well, I did see him a week or 2 later, & he was sober & apologized in great detail for his transgressions in front of several other customers at the lumber yard. He also said he would pay the collection agency & asked what that service cost me (1/3) & agreed to pay that as well (both of which he did pay)Then he mentioned one decal being ruined somehow. I just said no problem, swing by & I'll take care of it. Well, he came by & it turns out I had done 2 different sizes on the 2 trucks... the extra I "just happened to have" was the wrong size. No worries I say... I'll print the larger sized one & get it done next week. Next week rolls around & he says "something came up & he won't be needing it"... I said "ever?" he says yep!
I'm not sure if his wheels got repo'd, or he ran his business in the ground, but I did hear about others getting screwed during his binge... & they were folks getting houses built... so getting screwed with much bigger numbers.
posted
Hwy where Tonia is from (Oak Grove, LA) They put up these big changeable signs saying "SO & so gave us a bad check, on such day, yadda yadda." Man, did I get a kick out of that!!
-------------------- Felix Marcano PuertoRicoSigns.Com Luquillo, PR
Work hard, party like a tourist! Posts: 2274 | From: Luquillo, Puerto Rico, USA | Registered: Nov 2000
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posted
Doug, that was a great story, It never hurts to wait someone out if you're not gonna choose a legal paperwork route.
I assume 99% of these 'prank-vigilante`' ideas are just jokes . . .and all that is funny and all . . . . ..
but if you're not kidding, you should know that the work and energy one would put into such 'pay-back' is more work, and of course, does not holds up in court, than a proper signed contract at the beginning of the job and a cleared-check down-payment. Without these things, no job is started in the first place. But should the job go bad, the proper paper trail is in place for small claims, which as has been note in very easy to do, and any case which is won by you requires THEM to pay court costs, and cases defaulted on by a no-show to court, automatically proves their guilt, and in some cases could cause a warrant for their arrest by the judge.
-------------------- Signs Sweet Home Alabama
oneshot on chat
"Look like a girl, act like a lady, think like a man, work like a dog" Posts: 5758 | From: "Sweet Home" Alabama | Registered: Mar 2003
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