posted
Why in the heck do you need to have a contractors license to dig two holes in the ground. It is the most stupid thing to me. It's not like I'm doing the engineering, that's what the engineers are for.
I'm losing big money jobs because I can't pull the dang permits in surrounding counties. It's really ticking me off.
Our county lets me pull them. Apparently someone there has some kind of common sense!!
Sorry, just had to rant. I work my butt off all day and most of the night just to lose jobs because of stupid governmental BS.
[ August 10, 2005, 11:51 AM: Message edited by: Amy Brown ]
-------------------- Amy Brown Life Skills 101 Private Address Posts: 3502 | From: Lake Helen, FL, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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Amy, I don't have to have a license in my county(YET). Do you know anyone who is a a building contractor? My brother in law is a building contractor in the next county and pulls my permits for me when I do jobs there. I gather all the information, do all of the drawings, site plan, fill out the forms, take the photos etc. and he signs off on it. Maybe you could do that? But if you're doing alot of it, you might want to just get your license.
[ August 10, 2005, 12:22 PM: Message edited by: Wayne Webb ]
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7404 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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One more thing...IF you do go ahead and get your license, you may want to look into other small signshops that need permits pulled. It could be a nice way to suppliment your income $50 or so at a shot.
posted
Amy, I just talked to my contractor brother in law and he said to try going to your county's building inspector and asking about becoming a "registered building contractor". He said you would need letters from former clients etc. and not be required to take the test. You might be able to use that in the next county. I don't know how that works but I will check into it. He said if you take the test, you will, of course, have to take the one for a commercial license which is more involved than the residential one. I'm just relaying what he told me.
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7404 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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Though I understand your frustration and you do know what you are doing, for every 1 person who has a clue there are probably 10 who don't. Thats one reason to require a contractors licence. It's nearly impossible to be unlicenced in California and almost every sign needs a permit of some sort.
-------------------- Rick Chavez Hemet, CA Posts: 1538 | From: Hemet,CA U.S.A. | Registered: Jun 2001
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I make the customer pull the permits and deal with the local government. So far i've been lucky and it hasn't cost me any jobs.
I use a local sign company to do many of my installations that are too big for me and just pass on the cost to the customer. A recent job required an insurance certificate and i don't have insurance so again i used the local company.
In New Jersey we have a "call before you dig" procedure and i have done that on occasion (don't want to hit a gas main while digging... )
Thanks, Steve
-------------------- Steve Racz Racz's Handcarved Signs Posts: 1078 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Jan 2004
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Yea, I've been that route. You can't pull a permit here unless you are the actual property owner. Most of them don't want to deal with the permitting and would rather pay for it. The local companies I have used for installs charge $500 minimum just for the install portion of the job, even if it's just two holes. Most people won't pay that.
In my county it's no problem, I have the insurance Workers Comp. Exemption and all.
We'll figure it out. Just another day in the life of Ambo Design!
-------------------- Amy Brown Life Skills 101 Private Address Posts: 3502 | From: Lake Helen, FL, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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And another reason to have some kind of co-op association or group formation so that one can get help with job in other places..
-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5274 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
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I understand having a contractors license. But why not offer one for people who don't do electrical signs like most of us.
Even the states Dept. of Professional Regulations cannot understand why some of the counties want you to have an ES Electrical Sign Contractors license to install a non-electrical sign to two posts!!!
Just another way to take more $$ out of our pocket.
-------------------- Amy Brown Life Skills 101 Private Address Posts: 3502 | From: Lake Helen, FL, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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Over here the es license is just for electric signs. I have a non-electrical sign contractors license. I had to submit a form with three other sign people saying that they have known me for x-number of years, then they assume you must know what you are doing, and issue you what is called a comp(competency)card. Take that along with liability insurance and a waver from the workman's comp people, and a performance bond, and you should be able to draw permits .
Not easy, but do-able....
-------------------- Jeff Ogden 8727 NE 68 Terr. Gainesville FL, 32609 Posts: 2138 | From: 8827 NE 68 Terr Gainesville Fl 32609 | Registered: Aug 2002
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I agree Jeff, but I told her non-electrical installs and she said ES License.
I then said, "even for non-electrical signs"? And she said ES. I then said, "butI don't do electrical signs." She still said ES......
When I called the DBPR office she said I wasn't alone in my complaint that many counties are doing this and little non-electrical shops like ours are losing the battle.
Oh well, I'm calling it a day. Enough fun for one day!
-------------------- Amy Brown Life Skills 101 Private Address Posts: 3502 | From: Lake Helen, FL, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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It hasn't gotten that bad everywhere here yet, although I needed an architect's seal on my plans for a simple 3 by 7 double sided post sign in a city I don't usually work in.
The client payed for it but it was a total pain to comply with that one.
Usually liability insurance is all you need. I have done many jobs where the city calls and tells me ok all they need is my sign contractors license to go ahead. Feels good to tell them there is no such thing in this state except the sign specialist's license needed for electrical.
-------------------- Wright Signs Wyandotte, Michigan Posts: 2785 | From: Wyandotte, MI USA | Registered: Jan 1999
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Or you could just move to Maine. You don't need a license to be a contractor here. You need a license to sell a house, and you need a licence to wire one, but you don't need a license to build the damn thing. So a couple holes in the ground?... No problem
Dan
-------------------- Dan Marquis Marquis Signs Lewiston, Maine dan@marquissigns.com Posts: 118 | From: Lewiston, Maine, USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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To be honest, I wish our town would require licensed installers. I can't tell you how many times I've been called out to repair someone else's crap.
For any of you new to the sign business, 12" is not deep enough to hold a 10ft. tall 8'x4' sign.
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We do not have to have a license to dig holes here, & I am so glad! Don't need anymore red tape!
Today it was 90 degrees in the sun, where our sign was to be put. The customer had called to find out where the water & gas lines were, & they had it marked for us.
I was feeling a bit under the weather today, but I helped my husband anyway. He used the spudbar to bust up the dirt, & I used the post hole digger to pull the dirt out. the first hole went ok, but the 2nd one was in a bunch of large pea gravel, that round stuff. Every time I tried to get the rocks out, the ones on the edge of the hole rolled down in there! I ended up shoveling themt o get it started, then my hubby got sick of me "piddling around" & grabbed the shovel & got'r going! By that time I was dizzy & my legs were shaking, so I was really grateful he gave me a break.
Gotta add something here I told my husband... Those women who want to be like men can have it! Men are men, & women are women, & we are made different, & THANK GOD I have a man!
Sorry, didn't mean to go a bit off topic, but i had to blow off a bit of steam!
posted
One of the reasons they want a contractors liscence is to ensure procedure is followed and everyone involved has insurance, and the knowledge, to perform the job without endangering lives or property. A simple 36"deep hole if not properly located by utility companies can end up with a electrical hazard or a simple but costly loss of cable Tv services. Also Like mentioned above some people think a 12" hole in the ground will hold a 4' x 8' sign in a hurricane.lol I have been a ICBO, type A building contractor for many years, and have seen some folks do some stupid stuff. Bobbie I would not dig a hole in the ground unless I called the locates myself. The laws may differ, but here in Colorado we were building a 350' guyed tower. the area had been properly located by UNCC in my companies name. When our caisson contractor was digging the guy anchors, he hit a TCI cable company main feed "Fiber Optic cable". It shut down most of the town of Parker Colorado from Cable tv for 1.5 to 2 days in places. Since the Drilling company didn't have a "digsheet" with their name (he just relied on our digsheet)He was fined almost $40,000.00. If he had a sheet since the locator missed the line he wouldn't have had any trouble. He appealed and lost.
-------------------- Mike Milos PrintSation Banner D-Signs & Graphics 489 S. 13th Ave Brighton, CO 80601 303-726-6513 Posts: 50 | From: Denver, CO | Registered: Jun 2004
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Mike - Had a friend in Texas hit a fiber optic line (Trunk Line) - it Bankrupted him - I forget how many thousand they charged him per day for service interruption - know he lost 3 big John Deers - backhoe - 2 tractors- ultimately, his business & home as well . . .always call local utilities for dig - in Mississippi & Tennessee it's free - 3 days & your safe - -I hit a South Central Bell Phone line one time & it cost me $1200 - that woke me up - although I should have fought it - I was only re-setting an existing sign that was leaning - a lousy $50 job - apparently when I dug out the post holes I nicked their line - who woulda thunk you'd hit something on existing holes?
-------------------- Carl Wood Olive Branch, Ms Posts: 1392 | From: Olive Branch,MS USA | Registered: Nov 1999
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All we have to do is get a permit issued for the sign.... Then contact the Hydro and Water to be assured that there is (NO Main Lines) under our digging.
Because we live on a rock (Blasting) is another issue...
-------------------- Stephen Deveau RavenGraphics Insinx Digital Displays
Letting Your Imagination Run Wild! Posts: 4327 | From: Lower Sackville, Nova Scotia, Canada | Registered: Jan 2000
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On one hand, I know people who carry licenses for all kinds of things and don't know their butts from a hole in the ground . . .
That said, anyone who does know a thing or ten about all the surprises lying just beneath the surface of the earth, and all kinds of other fabrictaion, building, installing, etc, etc etc, situations, should willingly desire to be professionally licensed. If for no other reason, do it to impress customers with a knowledge of general good business practice, lol If ya don't wanna do it for that reason, do it for the competitive edge, or so competitors can't use your lack against you.
Be a licensed business operator. It's the responsible thing to do.
A general contractors business license in Alabama starts at $60 bux a year and goes up according to your yearly gross.
I dunno how much they are in Flord'y, but even if they go up to $1000 a year (based on gross yearly income) it's worth the investment just to have the thing to totally avoid a wide variety of hassles.
-------------------- Signs Sweet Home Alabama
oneshot on chat
"Look like a girl, act like a lady, think like a man, work like a dog" Posts: 5758 | From: "Sweet Home" Alabama | Registered: Mar 2003
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That is what we have, Barry, it is called One Call, & they came out & marked where there were no lines to hit, where we were to put it. They stuck a flag int he ground with a painted line.
Ours is a tiny town, & 3 businesses are shutting down, all restaurants. Maybe, just maybe.... the new ones that open up in their places may need some new signage!
-------------------- The Word in Signs Bobbie Rochow Jamestown, PA 16134
724-927-6471
thewordinsigns@alltel.net Posts: 3485 | From: Jamestown, PA 16134 | Registered: Oct 2002
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I agree. I'd go get the license if I could. However, they want a ES Specialty Contractors License for this particular county which if for Electrical Sign Contractors. I'm not electrical.
You have to work for 3 years in a supervisory position as an electrician before you can take the test. Whoever signs you off has to prove that they employeed you and drew all the taxes, SS, etc.
Believe me, I've considered getting a General Contractors license, but in this case it wouldn't be sufficient for them. I believe it is around $1200 to take the General Contractors exam. Then probably another grand or two for books to study and use on the test. Then if you fail for some reason you're out $1200 and you pay again. Only given twice a year I think but I may be wrong.
Just makes no sense!!
I'm seriously considering buying a digital printer and learning to wrap cars. No permits for that yet!!
[ August 11, 2005, 11:44 AM: Message edited by: Amy Brown ]
-------------------- Amy Brown Life Skills 101 Private Address Posts: 3502 | From: Lake Helen, FL, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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The PA One Call is free if the property owner calls it in. There is a $35? charge if a business other than the property owner calls it in. Least, that's what it was when our gas line had to be replaced a couple years ago.
If someone doesn't mark their lines correctly (or at all, some ignore the notice from 1-call to mark their lines) as long as One Call was called, you're not liable, it doesn't matter who called.
Some towns here have sign permits which is basically pay them a tax so they allow you to put up whatever monstrosity you desire, they don't even care what the sign is. I'm glad I don't have to deal with the assinine permitting requirements I've read about on here but at the same time, I wish they'd do more about lit signs. We have 2 that have gone up within the last year that are just waiting to cause an accident. They're both on dark roads & are just way too bright for their areas. You're driving with just your headlights, your eyes are adjusted to the darkness, then you go around a bend in the road & there is this extremely bright sign blinding you. If they were in a lit-up area, they'd be fine, but being out of town they're going to cause an accident.
-------------------- Chris Welker Wildfire Signs Indiana, Pa Posts: 4254 | From: Indiana, PA | Registered: Mar 2001
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We also have the call-before-you-dig thing. It's free and very easy. Simply call the 1-800-number and give the exact location of the up-coming dig. There are 3 utilities primarily concerned (water, natural gas & phone). (Electric is only concerned if you are installing a structure over 12' directly below an overhead line. You may not install permanent signage near poles and guy-wires.)
The area you call about will be precisley marked within 2 days of this call. At the time of the call, you will also recieve a confirmation number. If you hit a line (AFTER) the marks are laid, you will not be liable for repair if you were not within those marked areas.
Donch'a wish everything was that simple!
Still get the general contractor license Amy. It will make other more specific license holders more willing to let you work under theirs.
posted
Not to get off topic, but in PA, we even have a web site for digging too. It's address is http://www.pa1call.org/ Amy, Start going after projects that don't need permits, licenses, etc. We're doing quite well with interior ADA signage and visual treatments. Most of it is not creative work, but it pays well. Some of the smaller jobs we've completed have lead to much larger projects that have taken us nationwide. We have a client that now allows their branches to place their orders online through our website. We just ship the completed project right to their location. I don't even have to meet them and there's no installation hassles. Not bad when you consider the company has over 50 branches in the US alone and the average online order is about $3000. If we do a full visual treatment for a larger facility the total could be over $50k
Havin' fun,
Checkers
-------------------- a.k.a. Brian Born www.CheckersCustom.com Harrisburg, Pa Work Smart, Play Hard Posts: 3775 | From: Harrisburg, Pa. U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 1998
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I contacted a company that does complete electrical and neon sign installs who also does wholesale installs.
He said the county won't let them work on this non-electrical sign either because they must have this ES Specialty Contractors License. Half the guys working there are Journeymen electricians.
Tell me this isn't a crock of BS!
-------------------- Amy Brown Life Skills 101 Private Address Posts: 3502 | From: Lake Helen, FL, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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Amy - I feel for ya - yes I agree it is a crock of B.S. - ridiculas regulations like this are enforced while the same officials seem to be blind to the Illegal Alien problem - - personally, I would make this sign "appear" overnite - - What Sign - I have no idea . . .
-------------------- Carl Wood Olive Branch, Ms Posts: 1392 | From: Olive Branch,MS USA | Registered: Nov 1999
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