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What are you guys (and ladies) getting now a days for letting race cars? Lettering race cars is how I started to learn how to letter (paint & brush) That was about 20 years ago. Back then nobody wanted to pay anything for the work so I shied away from them. Just wondering what the going price is now a days.
That was the last time I did any race cars too, and I used to get about $300 - $400 but just as your situation, they don't want to pay any more than. They won't pay much, but will be glad for you to put your business name on the car!
But lately, I've been noticing that people will pinch cheap pennies on business signs, even on their vehicles, while the same people will pay out the bleeding nose for stunt lettering for their toys.
I get about $400 for a standard job, mostly vinyl, some hand lettering. That includes numbers, 2 rear 1/4 panel sponsors, trunk, hood and driver's name on both side of the roof. "Special Thanks Mom & Dad" and the pit crew names usually go along with the rest.
Some things to remember... A lot of drivers who run entry level cars, like four cylinders, think that they should automatically cost less than a late model, but often have more work on them. Price accordingly to the work, not the division of the car.
Sign it! Don't let a driver call it sponsorship looking for a discount. Too many of the shops around here don't realise that these cars HAVE TO BE LETTERED or the sponsors aren't happy. Sponsoring race car lettering usually gets you one thing...more race car lettering jobs. Most of those want sponsorship, too.
A lot of drivers will call and say something like "I just need numbers and my name)." Yeah, right. More often than not, when you get there, the list has grown exponentially. "I only have a couple of sponsors." I've had times where a couple turned out to be 10. Before you price a race car, be sure you get ALL of the sponsor names along with all the goofy junk these guys often ask for. Example: 10 sponsors with phone numbers, area code included, amounts to 100 LETTERS to do. That kind of stuff can come back to bite you later...usually in the wallet. Personally, I've never seen people in the stands jotting down phone numbers while a car's doing 90 down the front stretch and feel they are a total waste of time. If I have to do them, they cost a lot!
My problem when I started doing race cars was that I was looking to make a name for myself and would often add stuff or agree to do extra work. Worked way too cheap. Unlike the guys who do everything in vinyl, we who use paint often fall into that "while I got you here" trap and spend way too long adding stuff, winding up spending a couple of hours doing it. I've lost count of how many times a driver would show off the car while I was in the middle of doing it and someone would come in and want thier sponsorship added on the spot.
I've found that having a basic package to start with helps. Anything over and above that gets priced out accordingly.
Like any othe job, your brushes only know that it's work. They work just as hard on a race car as any other job, whether it's a sign, truck, or boat. When they tell you how much their work is worth, listen to them!
Hope this helps... Rapid
[ July 31, 2005, 07:54 AM: Message edited by: Ray Rheaume ]
-------------------- Ray Rheaume Rapidfire Design 543 Brushwood Road North Haverhill, NH 03774 rapidfiredesign@hotmail.com 603-787-6803
I like my paint shaken, not stirred. Posts: 5648 | From: North Haverhill, New Hampshire | Registered: Apr 2003
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I have 4 or 5 that I still do. They pay $500 to $600 for late models and $1000 to 1200 for sprint cars. Maybe that's why I only have a few.
There always someone who'll do a cheaper job so I don't really worry about taking on any more. The ones that come to me get a cool lookin' car and they're willing to pay for that. I save the art file and make pretty good on the repair stuff too.
Local racers are an interesting bunch of folks. I try to be polite to them and answer the questions about colors and such but if you let them they'll suck all the air out of the room and never buy I thing. I can't make a living off of poor people so if the guy is trying to get by as cheap as possible I just cheerfully send him to one of the folks in town who go after that market. It's business.
If you want to be amazed, go to the local track and just walk thru the pits. The color choices, fonts and layout will leave you with a bad taste in your mouth. It's like the guy who walks down the street with his pants below his butt, his shirt 5 sizes to big, his visor on upside down and backwards and a big comb sticking out of his hair. Now, at some point he had to have thought to himself... Man, this sh@t looks good.
Charge what it's worth. You can get a job anywhere if you'll work for free.
Wayne
-------------------- Berry Signs & Stripes Hattiesburg, MS Signs, lines, lettering & other neat stuff. Posts: 82 | From: Hattiesburg, MS | Registered: Jan 2000
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I don't do any race cars, but I do handle jetski racers.
When it comes to sponsors and me offering sponsorships, I absolutely will NOT sponsor or discount the price on their other sponsor logos. If they want my number designs or graphics, I don't mind a little sponsor deal here and there (usually in the form of a 20% discount off retail) but I am not paying for some other company's advertising.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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I raced formula cars for about 10 years and is probably the reason I got into the sign business.
I've watched other races get a sponsor for a few quarts of oil and then spend $50 bucks out of there own pocket to have the sponsors name put on the car. Often the size of the name on the car is 4 times the size that it should be for what they got for it. Most don't have a clue on how to market themselves.
I have sat down with many racers and showed them that the race car should be treated like a newspaper and you have to allot advertising space on it based on what their cost to put the car on the track for the whole season.
I also showed them that when a sponsor comes on board that they should let them know that they are responsible for the cost of the lettering. This might also include any additional costs to letter the trailer or tow vehicle.
Buy having the sponsor deal with me for signs, I have the opportunity to speak with the guy who writes the cheques. During the meeting with the sponsor there is also an posibility to drum up some addition sign work at his business or at least make a contact that could lead to future work.
Making the racer a bit more savy when dealing with sponsors could help open some doors for you with new customers.
Leave them with the knowledge that if the car is done by someone else because thy do it cheaper then higher end sponsors will probably not give them a second look. Train these drivers to become better salespeople for themselves and in turn they become better sales people for you.
Monk
-------------------- Sandy "Monk" Baird Windwalker Sign Studio Port Colborne, Ontario L3K 4H9 Posts: 442 | From: Port Colborne, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Jun 2004
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I began to turn down the race car jobs IMMEDIATELY, soon as I heard there talk & could see they didn't want to pay for my work. This is vinyl I am talking about. The last one I did last year for $300, & he didn't call me back this year, which is fine with me.
My WORST customer was my cousin, & I did for him for $200 because he was my cousin. he went on to LIE to my family, even telling my dad i charge him $300!!!! Even if I HAD done it that cheap, it would not have been worth it!!! I did his whole trailer for the same amt. to be kind, & he lied about that, too.
Nope, don't care about the cars unless I get an appreciative customer. I had one of my "cheapie" customers' (who I do not crumble to anymore) son here a couple of weeks ago telling me that I GET TO do his stock car next year for him. If he is anything like his father...NOT!!!!!
-------------------- The Word in Signs Bobbie Rochow Jamestown, PA 16134
724-927-6471
thewordinsigns@alltel.net Posts: 3485 | From: Jamestown, PA 16134 | Registered: Oct 2002
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Twenty years ago, racecar lettering made up 75% of my buisness. The majority of those being sprint cars. I also did a lot of street stock type cars and some drag cars. Sprints back then ran $800-$1200. The stock cars were around $400. The affordability of plotters has pretty much killed the race car market. You can get a car lettered around here from a low of free to a high of $500. The $500 car has fluros and big ball foils all over it, in other words, about $200 worth of vinyl on it. There is one guy doing complete sprint cars for $200. I've talked with some guys in other parts fo the country that are getting decent prices still, ( $1200 for late models ) but for the most part, the hobbiests have pretty much ruined the market, not only price wise but how the cars look. On any given night at our local track there will be around a hundred cars. You will be doing good if you seen ten that have numbers that show up on the back stretch
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
posted
To have your moniker on a race car is telling the world you work for free... I've never made any money-money doing race cars, though race cars helped me become well known...catch 22... Any I do these days are for love and big money, in other words, I don't do many anymore...I still do a well-heeled private owners dwarf-car(faster version of Legends)stable, signage only, $850-1200.00 min...that's about it other than large teams w/huge budgets... The only way I would sponser a job was thru the paperwork version, the thought of signing a contract weeds out the players from serious folks... Today, the teams are using vinyl wraps alot more, that's cutting into sticker applicators market... It's a dog eat dog world out there, no matter which way you turn, at some point, you're the dog biscuit...
-------------------- Frank Magoo, Magoo's-Las Vegas; fmagoo@netzero.com "the only easy day was yesterday" Posts: 2365 | From: Las Vegas, Nv. | Registered: Jun 2003
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iam with geo perkins. been in business full time since 85.....and most of work was stock cars. all brush work until 93 when i got a plotter. and then i only did the small stuff in vinyl(as i still to day)painting 3 number with 3 colors, 2 sponsors(which i will never be). i hada store front which was on the road(1 mile from race track)and hada banner outfront STOCK CARS HAND LETTERED $125.00(i can do this in 3-4 hours)......and got 2 jobs from it!!!!! the 2nd vinyl cutter i bought was froma HOOTERS CUP racer...most buy there own and have wife/nephew/cousin/son run it and cut their vinyl, or if they dont own 1 they got some yo yo with a computer and vinyl cutter doin the car for FREE to get his name put on it. every race car i ever lettered....HAD MY NAME ON IT...and i got paid to put it there...that goes with the job....now i maybe i do 1-2 a year
[ August 01, 2005, 01:05 AM: Message edited by: old paint ]
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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I worked armed security at a local race track. I can tell you first hand that most of those boys don't have a lot of money because they spent it on some go faster parts.
They cheaper boys dont want to spend anything on lettering because it is ruined after the second weekend.
The richer guys and nicer cars get lettered once every now and then because those boys are more carefull better drivers thus dont bend the cars.
I watched a dude in a trailer try to sell his lettering for 6 weekends. He didn't sell one job.. NOT ONE!!! The low end cars came in already lettered, usually done by hand via latex and a house brush.
The higher end cars were already done by brother Bubba for a ticket into the pits.
-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5274 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
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Race cars, to me, are like the plague! No.......they are worse! They don't blink an eye to spend $30,000.00 on an engine, but when I tell them $800.00 to letter a car they go nuts! Then they tell you, "you can put your name on it!"
Take one quarter panel for example. They load it up. Business name with logo, address and phone number. If that were a sign, what would you charge? Now add up all the other "stuff".
I do not do race cars!!!!! The word is out and nobody "bothers" me.
There is a guy around here doing them for $200.00. Airbrush work and all. Have at it.
Like Al Bradt said, "there's two ways to loose money. Work your a** off for no pay or sit back and sip on a cold one".
When it comes to race cars, I chose the "cold one"!
-------------------- Tony Vickio The World Famous Vickio Signs 3364 Rt.329 Watkins Glen, NY 14891 t30v@vickiosigns.com 607-535-6241 http://www.vickiosigns.com Posts: 1063 | From: Watkins Glen, New York | Registered: Sep 2001
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In our shop, race cars start at $700.00 and work their way from there.
-------------------- Bruce Bowers
DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter Posts: 6454 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
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I have only one race car customer, and he still comes to me from Baltimore. His cars are old school and they need to be hand lettered, not vinyl. They range from $1,000 to $1,300, depending on the amount of work. As you see they sometimes have illustrations or gold-leaf too. Race Car Image I have fun doing them and I think I get decent money for them, at least I know I'm not losing money on them. Did I mention that I have FUN doing them? I think that's important too. The good thing is that he usually needs them lettered during my slow season!
[ August 01, 2005, 09:36 AM: Message edited by: Gene Golden ]
-------------------- Gene Golden Gettysburg Signs Gettysburg PA 17325 717-334-0200 genegolden@gettysburgsigns.com
"Art is knowing when to stop." Posts: 1578 | From: Gettysburg, PA | Registered: Jun 2003
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i can say in all the years of stock car lettering NO ONE HAS EVER NOT PAID ME as soon as the job was completed!!!!!!!! most stock car people dont have a lot of money but they are honest and most work hard for their money....and know that payin the letter guy is important. now the one who dont want to pay is the OFF SHORE RACING BOATS.....BIG BUCKS to buy a bare hull, thern bigger bucks for the 454-500 c.i. basic engines, and some have 2-4 of these!!!!! then all the "go fast" parts added to the powerplants....i did a couple in sarasota...and if one would call me today.. i WOULD GET DEPOSIT 1ST!!!!!!
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Thanks for all the replys. I am concidering geting back into lettering race cars. I really love stock car racing especially dirt cars. Usually I am at the tack on the weekends. I am just looking for a way to mix business with pleasure. Like somebody else said I really do like lettering cars put it was not profitable. I guess I will do a few, get back into the market and stick to my guns. If they want to pay my price, fine we can do business. If not, then they can find somebody else.
posted
In the last 20 years I have lettered 3 race cars! They belonged to a very good customer who didn't expect it to be done for free!
I don't care to sponsor other people's hobbies! To me race cars are just like trucks or vans...a source of income, not a place to practice lettering! (After 39 years, I don't need practice!)
-------------------- Si Allen #562 La Mirada, CA. USA
(714) 521-4810
si.allen on Skype
siallen@dslextreme.com
"SignPainters do It with Longer Strokes!"
Never mess with your profile while in a drunken stupor!!!
Brushasaurus on Chat Posts: 8831 | From: La Mirada, CA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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there might be no money in race cars, or little, but it is why i got into general signmaking, if the local sign people had been bothered to sort me the graphics i was willing to pay the going rate for (and often had), then i would not have felt the need to go and buy a 'cheap cutter' ($2700.. cheap ?) and cut my own, making a living from it became a neccesity when i lost my regular job,
so technically, the very people who didnt want to help me, or who didnt want the competitiong from people like me potentially doing the signage too cheap, have forced me into a position whereby i have become the competition !!
btw, whilst the money is not huge in these cars, i'll do a basic package fro about $300, i also cut mobile at the drag tracks, either from clipart or custom lettering etc, there's always good money if you go looking for it !
its great being able to mix business with pleasure, when i cut mobile i get to set up only 50yrds from the bleach boxes / start line, and can watch the cars race all day long, i'm also becoming pretty well known, and last wekend even supplied all the new lettering for the fairground bumpercars that were on site !!
[ August 05, 2005, 02:32 PM: Message edited by: Hugh Potter ]
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