posted
For those planning on hosting future meets & for those wondering about meet entry fees, I offer up a review of the past Mazeppa Muster in hopes others will learn from our experience and for others to gain understanding. These are general items to provide the gist of things. Anyone wanting more info can email me & I will be glad to share specifics.
Let me preface this info with this tidbit. Ever since Mike has been putting on meets (4 total & I've helped with them all), our goal is to break even on every meet. It's not about making or losing money for us, mainly Mike. It's about the experience, the learning & the life long friendships. That's what it will always be about whenever Mike hosts a meet. Those that have been to Mike's meets know they are special.
This past meet saw Mike take it in the shorts to a tune of slightly more than 7K. And that's not counting the 2 weeks he shut down the shop to prepare for the meet. We're not whining or asking for help. We're sharing info so others can learn from it. Here's the generic info in order of most significant numbers to least;
EXPENSES: Entertainment Shirts Project/Seminar/Staff Meals Facilities Supplies Advertising Shuttle
INCOME: Registration (attendance) Vendor Donations Projects Local Donations Auction/Sales/Gate
The top 3 expenses were the biggest hitters. Income lacked in registration & projects (what places paid for their signage). Attendance was about half of what we hoped for to break even (100 paid - some for 5, 4, 3, 2 or 1 day). At the 1999 meet we had around 200 paid people. 200 this time would have broke even. Yes, we could've done things differently to cut costs. But that would've cut corners on doing it up right. We'll make adjustments for next time.
Yes, there will be a next time. Mike & I have already talked about another meet someday. We'll make changes and move forward. Whether it's a make or lose event doesn't matter to us. We'll work to have another outstanding meet. Life's too short to let good things go by. Thank you to all who came & made this meet a fantastic memory. It was a blast.
Tim
-------------------- Tim Meyer
950 W 2nd St. Zumbrota, MN 55992 tmpondy@yahoo.com
Mike Meyer's older bro Posts: 62 | From: Zumbrota, MN, USA | Registered: Aug 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
I feel your pain, guys. I still don't "get it" when folks think that we have meets to make money. What a joke, huh. I still owe Mars $300 from 2002...OH WELL. Any meet where ya break even is a good one. If there is any $$ left over, take the staff to dinner and that's about it. So far I'm doing pretty well with the Jamboree funds. I have the venue paid for, and the pop and water bought. Anyone out there speculating about the high time we meet hosts are having with the kitty....think again. Anticipating a good time in the piney woods. If I come up short it will still be worth it. It's like a family reunion of people that one actually likes! Have fun in Greece, Mikey! Love yins.....Jill
Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
We lost over $100,000 in business with the International in 1997 in Belvidere due to the logistics of running a meet - AND a business. IT just takes a LOT of time.
How do I know? The year before (96) AND the year after (98), our business did right around $230K in sales - both years. In 1997 we only did $117K for the whole year. The meet broke even because it was well attended. We didn't fare as well, obviously. Would I change it?
Nope - not for a minute - and not for the immense pride I had in my "other" community - Letterheads - for what they did to change a town.
The power is amazing and the people who are brave enough to run a large International meet should not have to hear about how it "Costs too much"!! Now you know why!! Want a good time? It'll cost you.
I believe that the days of the exceptionally large International meets are over. As a group, no clear alternatives are on the horizon - or offered or suggested. It is time to evolve again - before the movement gets lost to time and lack of interest. Most of us sharing these grand times aren't getting any younger.
So who's in line next? I asked that question in Boise during the Closing Dinner event - and only 8 people undeer the age of 30 stood up out of a group of around 500. What does that tell you?
Talk like this is put out there NOT to scare people thinking about hosting a meet - but to share by helping them understand what we who have tried have learned in the process. But nobody makes the work sound "fun" - just rewarding.
There IS a difference. Maybe that's the secret.
-------------------- Jay Allen ShawCraft Sign Co. Machesney Park, IL jallen222@aol.com http://www.shawcraft.com/
"The object of the superior man is truth." -Confucius Posts: 1285 | From: Machesney Park, IL, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
Mike, Tim and everyone else involved in putting the "Mother of all Meets" muster together, I thank you VERY much. I too know the pain of holding a meet. I held the 1998 Australian annual meet (I think the biggest to date)and it is a whole lot of work, and i didnt have a lot of help thats for sure. Almost Every year we fly in someone from America (or elsewhere)who we feel will be a draw card and last year it was Mike and we are sure glad we did. I know last years meet down here too lost money as did many other meets but as Tim said, Everything else like friendships, experiences etc take the "sting" out of the loss. In Australia our meets too are seeming to dwindle in attendance numbers unfortunately, and I dont know why or how to fix it.
I really hope I can get to sling paint again with my new and old mates! Somewhere- someday- somehow !
Cheers and THANKS!!!
Rod Tickle
-------------------- Rod from, EAST COAST AIRBRUSHING "Airbrush Art & Graphics" Nambour; Sunshine Coast, Queensland. Australia E.mail: rod@rodticklesigns.com Web: www.rodticklesigns.com Posts: 635 | From: Nambour, Sunshine Coast, Queensland | Registered: Dec 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
A meet in my shop has long been on my wish list.... and its getting closer all the time especially since I now have a real shop to call my own. It won't be an international meet by any means, although I hope to see folks form lots of places. I will in fact probably have to limit attendance to perhaps a maximum of 50 people. I'm not sure if that has been done before although I've heard of a few invitational meets in the past.
I've spoken with a few hosts of meets I've taken in over the years and heard the same comments which have been posted above each time.
Hosting a meet costs a LOT in time and money. But each host I've spoken with doesn't regret the experience.
One thing for sure... while most folks are there to enjoy themselves, the host and his/her helpers are worked to a frazzle, making sure everyone else there IS having fun and lacking for nothing. It often consumes at least a week before the meet and days of getting back to normal afterwards. As Jay refers to it can cost a LOT in lost production time for a working shop.
Each meet I've been to has a unique flavor, and is a unique experience for each participant.
Like Mike says... its about the people who attend. Ultimately, the more you give to others at a meet, the more you will take away for yourself.
-grampa dan
-------------------- Dan Sawatzky Imagination Corporation Yarrow, British Columbia dan@imaginationcorporation.com http://www.imaginationcorporation.com
Being a grampa is one of the the most wonderful things in the world!!! Posts: 8738 | From: Yarrow, B.C. Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
We're considering hosting a Dixie Meet next year, but now I'm apprehensive. I know Donald Thompson has hosted a few that solicited donations only. Did you lose your shirt, Donald? Nothing seemed barebones and attendance was good for a regional meet.
I have no idea what to expect, so any advice from the "vets" is welcome. How much does a Port-a-Potty cost to rent anyway?????
-------------------- www.signcreations.net Sonny Franks Lilburn, GA 770-923-9933 Posts: 4115 | From: Lilburn, GA USA | Registered: Feb 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
Sonny, a port-o-potty is $75, $50 if you get 3. Ask me how I know! Dan, sometimes a "limited" meet is a good way to approach things, like Pierre did for FKAB. Man, was that a great meet, too. Invitationals sometimes anger those who don't get invited...even if it was an honest oversight! Love....Jill
Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
Thanks Tim for starting this post. If you are thinking of doing a meet, please, DO IT, figure out your costs and do it. This post is to help you make even, or even make a few dollars and take the staff out fur supper. I will still do meets in the future and go to meets in the future. I wanna see you out there!
thanks Tim!
-------------------- Mike Meyer Sign Painter 189 1st Ave n P.O. Box 3 Mazeppa, Mn 55956
We are not selling, we are staying here in Mazeppa....we cannot re-create what we have here....not in another lifetime! SO Here we are!!!!!!!
posted
I know the pain and pleasure of hosting a meet as we did the Brush Bash in 2002. I was scared to death with all of the details and the toughest thing was not knowing how many people would show up, so planning enough work and food and hoping for good weather was our toughest challenge. When it was all said and done, I thought things turned out great. We only had a small rain delay, but everyone worked so hard to get the projects done. However, without the help of a few of my local sign friends, some of the loose ends wouldn't have been completed as far as finishing up a few projects and installing a couple of signs.
We made so many new friends... like Tim said, the people and the connections are what people remember most, but the expenses and downfalls remain on the minds of the people who planned the meet. I was lucky enough to work with a local Main Street Association director who solicited sponsors to help pay for the meet, and helped with alot of the red tape to get the permits OK'd for signs, etc. Main Street wanted us to do another meet after finding out what the first one was all about. I was a bit nervous to jump back in, because I know just how much work it is... like Jay Allen mentioned, with so much time focused on the meet, of course productivity will be down, but the upside is that maybe the "public" will realize the potential and impact of what signs can do for them, and it will help your business prosper.
After going to Mike's 2005 Muster, I felt the fire burning again and look forward to hosting our 2nd meet in August of 2006. Tim, I will e-mail you to discuss the ups and downs and hopefully get some good input from you and Mike.
Sorry to hear things didn't come out quite as you had hoped on the financial end, that is always one of many host's concerns during a meet.
Just wanted to say thanks again from my employee Jon and myself for all that you did for us at the meet.
-------------------- Kurt Gaber Chippewa Falls, WI Thank You Letterheads for being a part of both Brush Bashes in '02 & '06!
posted
To follow up something Kurt said, you WILL see work from the city or town that assists you in running a meet. (Don't even attempt a large meet WITHOUT community assistance - or corporate sponsors!!) A little work done for a town is NEVER forgotten or taken for granted. It is great for promotion - though we'll never make back what we gave up in lost production.
Don't let the posts above scare you - use them for your own education to prevent any losses that you can't afford. It is VERY worthwhile - but does cost time.
Mike, you're a better man than me if you want to continue to host large meets - and you DO host a great meet - but please don't take it in the shorts like that again. You're of no use if you're working out of the poor house!!
Perhaps since the 1999 meet was such fun, folks thought: "Been there - done that" - or maybe Mazeppa needs a spacious motel to help increase attendance!! That'll get people closer to coming who don't like to stay with 'host families'. Rochester was 25 minutes drive time - a nice ride - but a little more difficult after a few beverages!! Just a thought . . .
Either way, don't be scared of hosting a meet - large or small. It's a very gratifying experience - but perils lurk just like climbing Mt. Everest (which I also understand is very gratifying!!).
posted
AH, so THAT's what you were doing with the clipboard all week!! Just kidding. Hey I also wanted to thank you guys for all your effort. You really know how to make people feel at home. You can count on me for next time.
Dan, PLEASE give me an excuse to fly back up there!!!
See you guys!
-------------------- Felix Marcano PuertoRicoSigns.Com Luquillo, PR
Work hard, party like a tourist! Posts: 2274 | From: Luquillo, Puerto Rico, USA | Registered: Nov 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
Tim, I agree with all that has been said. I realize that Letterheads have no structure, no directors, etc. but for our meet we did things a little differently in order to save our butts. 6 local sign shops met and applied for 'non-profit' society status for the purpose of sharing the knowledge of sign making.....'to keep the art alive'. It was advised that we become a 'society' for insurance purposes to cover out butts. WE are called 'West Coast Sign Crafters Association' for this purpose only. Don't misunderstand me here...We strongly believe in the non-structured mass that is Letterheads/meets around the world, and do not support it being structured at all. Each of our six directors kicked in $200.00 each to give us $1200. for working capital.(It was also a 6-way commitment from all of us to work together, people are more reponsible when they have invested money.) That money would either represent our own fee into our own meet, or be paid back to each of us IF there were enough funds left when the meet was over. IF WE WENT IN THE HOLE, WE WOULD SPLIT THE AMOUNT 6 WAYS INSTEAD OF ANY ONE PERSON/SHOP HAVING TO ABSORB ALL THE LOSS. We discussed all spending. As this was our first attempt at a meet, we spent days calculating our expenses at $13,000. We had rented a large curling rink hoping for 150 people, but when the cut-off date for registration came, we were far below what we had projected for attendance, so looked at our alternatives and now we could not afford the curling rink. We had to change things. We had calculated for 'event insurance', but chose not to purchase that. We scrambled and approached a mall who had lots of empty stores that could be used for classrooms, eating areas, public viewing area....the mall was thrilled that we would wish to hold our meet there, and donated all the area we wanted. They helped us advertise, encouraged the public to come and see what signmaking was all about. We supported the mall's eateries, department stores for some supplies, and the merchants were happy to have extra volumes of people in the mall, as they had increased sales. We originally rented a curling rink for $3,000, (a $300. deposit was required). When we were forced to rethink our location, we chose to lose our $300.00 deposit fee to the curling rink, because now we were not obligated to pay the extra $2700. rent. Instead we received FREE space from the mall, plus they paid for all advertising and let us do whatever we wanted within reason. Our fee to attend our meet was $185.(CND)(add $50. for John Jordan's gold class). It included most meals for three days, a T-shirt, etc. We had to purchase our panels at cost from our supplier. Several suppliers were wonderful at donating paint and samples for everyone. Every meet has some glitches.... (like the 'Mystery meat' and 'chewy chicken suprise' at our main Sat. night dinner...what a screw up!) Our success was mainly because of the generosity of fellow Letterheads/teachers who came to offer their knowledge. They graciously came at THEIR expense. Without them we could not have done this. The final tally was 60 bodies at our meet, some paid, some were invited guests, but when it was over and all bills had been paid we had a small 'society' bank account left. We had enough to send a token thank you gift to our teachers, pay our directors back their original investment of $200.00 each and still have approx. $1,500. left in the account for when we decide to do this again. YES..We were lucky, we all lost some productivity time....and some business, all put out some personal expenses and materials....but IT WAS WORTH EVERY MOMENT. We have gained so much more. The mall wants us back every year!!! We now all refer business to each other...it is great. It took 6 of us over 1 year, meeting most Monday nights to plan and pull it off. Countless phonecalls, lots of notes, letter writing, emailing, asking for advise, listening to those who did this before, counting of each others strengths....as none of us could afford to have a loss. WE could not afford entertainment, etc. It was a 'no frills' meet. I can only imagine the extra time and effort, and personal expenses Mike spent as his was 'the Mother of all Meets'...the best paint area, the best people, the best activities, the best entertainment, it was WONDERFUL. As stressful and as kaotic as the preparation can be....the look on a newcombers face when they first see the art of sign painting up close is worth everything. Even our gurus and teachers learn something new and leave with a brain full of new ideas to try and new friendships that will last a lifetime. My advice: be sure you do your math for the worst possible scenarios, crunch all the numbers, ....most things in this world are 'user pay'....and this should be the same. I am much more aware of the work and love that goes into every meet. The lost revenue, down time, juggling work and meet prep, all the small things that most attendees take for granted....toilet paper, portable potties, garbage disposal, paper towels, thinners, borrowed tools that take weeks to find, bottled water, meals, wristbands, shuttles, clean up crews, etc.....all cost money. Prepare...prepare..be aware! I would also do it again and encourage all those considering putting on a meet to 'DO IT' The 'positives' far outweigh the 'negatives'. I figured I was at Mazeppa for 7 days (arrived early, left late) If I allowed 8 hours/day for sleep that left me 112 hours of networking/learning time....that is under $1.80 per hour.....for the registration cost. GREAT DEAL....No where else can we buy that kind of knowledge. There was 5 of us at any given time using Mike's or Tim's vehicles to shuttle to and from our motel....we always made sure we put more gas in their tanks than we used....as we all understand that even one trip to the motel costs them money.(gas, wear and tear on their vehicles, rubber wear, etc.) These are some of the added possibles you need to factor in. Sonny and others....there will always be some negative points, but they can become minimal as long as you are aware of them and calculate them into your meet. I encourage you to proceed with your plans and I know anyone here will be happy to assist/advise/share tales to help make your meet great. Mike outdid himself. I commend his efforts. Thank you so much Mike and Tim and your families... Thank you.
-------------------- Susan Banasky Source Signs Nanaimo, British Columbia sourcesigns@shaw.ca
When in need....go directly to the "Source"!
Proud Supporter of this "Knowledge Network"! Posts: 1323 | From: Nanaimo, B.C. Canada | Registered: Oct 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
You are very welcome Susan. Excellent info. Thank you.
Yes, all in all, it is worth it. You really feel like you're doing good things for people that truely appreciate it. The satisfaction is reward enuf. It makes for a close bond amongst people.
-------------------- Tim Meyer
950 W 2nd St. Zumbrota, MN 55992 tmpondy@yahoo.com
Mike Meyer's older bro Posts: 62 | From: Zumbrota, MN, USA | Registered: Aug 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
Another way to keep some costs down for smaller regional meets is that everyone can bring a few panels, paint, whatever.. basically a BYOstuff and just have a great weekend sometime. Wouldn't cost that much (transportation, food, disposal of trash)
There would be other associated costs (I obviously don't know about) but I'm sure the folks would gladly pitch in.
I learned so much from Susans AWESOME meet in Nanaimo BC and met so many wonderful people, I wish we had a few more meets in the local area. I'd then have to work on a few kitchen passes so I could go
-------------------- Brian Diver PDQ Signs Everett, Wa
posted
Hosting a meet does take over your life for quite a time. I spent two years planning the Bull and Brush meet in 2000, I did break even on it but only by spending what was in the pot at any one time. Reigstration were the only funding. A discount for early registration helped wth the cash flow and finding a low cost venue was useful, The saturday party was held in a marquee in the garden of my sisters pub, Food was one of the main costs, I would take a close look at those costs. Stewart McClaren arrived with a mate who just happened to be a chef! You should plan as much as you can and other things will just happen some good some not so good We took out insurance on the meet and almost made a claim, with a week to go there was a fuel crisis which left the entire country without petrol (GAS) This was a major stress for me, people phoning 'is the meet still on ? ' I knew when people called from the airport that it was.About 130 heads turned up some with partners/ family so about 180 in total All in all it was worth it , got some great memories of that time, if your considering a meet I would say just do it, but you must plan every detail ! and get help cheers Terry
-------------------- Terry Colley The VintageSign Co 42 barrack hill Romiley Stockport Cheshire, England sk6 3az tel 0161 494 5089 terry@bullandbrush.fsnet.co.uk Posts: 210 | From: England | Registered: Dec 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
I have hosted three meets. I wouldn't not host another one because of the expense. I have learned so much from each one. The way that I have done them, donations only, seems to always come up short. We didn't won't people to not come because they couldn't afford the entry fee. I realize that when folks come to a meet, they have alot of other expenses. Most people will usually drop in $10-20. That is a good bit short of what it costs to provide usually 5-7 meals, drinks, snacks, paper towels, stir sticks, thinner, etc. for a three day event per person. I hope others will realize when they go to a meet all that has been done to make their experience a joyful one, Where else can you get so much experience, knowledge, fun and comradery for so little money
Sonny, DON"T BE SKEERED!! I will be glad to help you in any way that I can if you need me to. Just give me a call.
![[For Your Information]](graemlins/fyi.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic