posted
Im having problems with my 1shot skimming over a lot.and when the can gets down 2thirds or so its turning to jelly witch makes it pretty much unuseable. i know the high summer heat here in fla has a lot to do with it. any one have some sugestions on this? thanks.
-------------------- Stan Yates Crocodile Creek Signs PO Box 308 Waldo FLA 32694 crocodilecreeksigns@juno.com Posts: 85 | From: waldo. fla | Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
Stan, I,ve tried all the tricks, CO2, breathing in the can, turning itupside down, etc.etc.etc....nuthin' works. Rather than waste time trying to restore that last bit, it's cheaper for me to turf it and start fresh. Sometimes I thin it WAY down and use it for stain. Sorry to not be of more help. MUR
-------------------- Murray MacDonald OldTime Signs 529 Third Ave S Kenora, ON. P9N 1Y3 oldtimesigns@gokenora.com Posts: 781 | From: Kenora, ON | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Had a can of black. Skin forming is nothing new....I just break it and pour. This was just as you describe...jelly. Dunno why, it was not that old, and I never add things to the can? Maybe try buying it in quarter-pints. Love....Jill
Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
Hahahaaa...kinda hard to use up those gallon cans of 1Shot...unless you are a Walldog or Billboard painter. If it is not a color that i use often, I simply buy smaller cans.
[ July 21, 2005, 12:15 PM: Message edited by: Si Allen ]
-------------------- Si Allen #562 La Mirada, CA. USA
(714) 521-4810
si.allen on Skype
siallen@dslextreme.com
"SignPainters do It with Longer Strokes!"
Never mess with your profile while in a drunken stupor!!!
Brushasaurus on Chat Posts: 8827 | From: La Mirada, CA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
I have had some luck by pouring a thin layer (1/4") of paint thinner over the top when I finish with the paint. But I rarely do that anymore I'm just like evryone else. Poke a hole in the skin and go on.
posted
I ALWAYS cut the entire skin off the top, and then scrape the oils that form on the bottom of the piece of film, back into the can. Each time you do otherwise, you are losing thinners, binders, oils, etc. that are necessary for the paint to remain useable.
Poking through and pouring is not allowing you to thoroughly mix the paint and will result in poor quality paint.
I also NEVER mix any thinners in the can. I will occasionally add a thin, "sacrificial layer", of VM&P Naptha to the top, like William. I do this usually if I am definitely going to be using the paint in the next couple of days. That way, there is not one of those "partial" skins left on top. Otherwise, I just let it skin up and seal itself.
-------------------- Gene Golden Gettysburg Signs Gettysburg PA 17325 717-334-0200 genegolden@gettysburgsigns.com
"Art is knowing when to stop." Posts: 1578 | From: Gettysburg, PA | Registered: Jun 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Stan, I think we all have problems with paint skinning over. The only time I had the "jelly" problem was when I returned USED paint back to the can after it had been tempered with thinning agents. (I now know better). Have you been doing this as well?
And as Gene says.... "ALWAYS cut the entire skin off the top, and then scrape the oils that form on the bottom of the piece of film, back into the can. So you won't lose thinners, binders, oils, etc. that are necessary for the paint to remain useable."
and NEVER return used paint back to the can.
[ July 21, 2005, 01:01 PM: Message edited by: John Smith ]
-------------------- John Smith Kings Bay Signs (Retired) Kissimmee, Florida Posts: 816 | From: Central Florida - The Sunshine State | Registered: Jan 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
Turn your can upside down when you put it back on the shelf . . once over a third of the can is used, it will skin over . . it takes that much air to do it, if you don't use certain colors frequently.
I use 8 oz Bottles and store them upside down, in the colors I use frequently . . the bottles seem to be porous enough to allow outgassing over a long period of time, so I only use bottles in certain colors . . . I buy 'em from Lazerlines, incidentally
posted
When first purchased, regardless of size, I remove lid and using an awl, I put a hole in bottom of trough for lid on the quarter(4holes), stir it well to make sure it's throughly stirred, then recap can. At this time I take small, self-starting, short-shank, license plate screws(preferably phillips heads), just inside of previously mentioned trough on lid, I install this screw, bottom it out once and back if off about 1/2 turn. From now on, when you need paint, shake can real well, remove screw and using bottom of can like a button, "pump" out however much you need, reinstall screw when done, end result, can will not scum over, period, providing paint to the end of the can. It doesn't make sense to me to throw away good paint, scumming used to cost me over 5 or more gallons of paint a year, overtime, it eats up alot of profit...funny too, an old signwriter showed me that eons ago...plastic bottles suck!!!!period!!!!!
-------------------- Frank Magoo, Magoo's-Las Vegas; fmagoo@netzero.com "the only easy day was yesterday" Posts: 2365 | From: Las Vegas, Nv. | Registered: Jun 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I really don't have the skinning problems no matter what weather I'm in, but simple maintainance of keeping your paint box in a cool dry place can almost always save it from skinning. For the past 30 or so years I've used Sapphire Paint-Sav and my paints never skin.
Then again all the tips in the world can't help another person if they don't use them.
-------------------- HotLines Joey Madden - pinstriping since 1952 'Perfection, its what I look for and what I live for'
posted
Havn't tried the screw method, but I always remove the whole skin. I use an artist's palette knife, sometimes sharpened on the edges. It bends and conforms to the edge of the can.
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Hey Joey! I got some of that stuff here in my shop! That is funny! I just wondered if what you posted was what I have under my table, & there it was! My old sign painter friend (incidentally, he saved my life when I was 8 yrs. old, resucitating me) gave me a can of it YEARS ago, & I had forgotten what it was for, for some reason! It tells you on the can HOW to use it, but not what it DOES. I'm gonna use this stuff now!
By the way, where do i get more when I run out?
-------------------- The Word in Signs Bobbie Rochow Jamestown, PA 16134
724-927-6471
thewordinsigns@alltel.net Posts: 3485 | From: Jamestown, PA 16134 | Registered: Oct 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
Bobbie, I don't believe Sapphire is still in business but do believe that Paint-Sav can still be bought and still on many sign supplier shelves as of today. I am lucky, I got about 10 pints or what I call, a lifetime supply.
On another note, people either follow the wrong directions or their heads are so far up in the air that they feel there's nothing else left to learn and I truly believe that learning is an everyday process. I don't care whether you've been in business for 30 years or 30 days, remembering instructions from your mentors in the past is one sure way to get into trouble in this day and age since most materials and paints aren't the same. One thing you can be sure of is that all paint must be stored in a cool dry place.
I'm in a torrid mood because of a rash on my forearm and hope it doesn't interfere with work I have in Oregon this following weekend, oh well
I just had to add this from a sign or pinstripe magazine some years back. One of the dumbest things I've ever read in my life was someone who said that he always carries his trusty palette knife to cut the skin from a can of paint. I laughed out loud because I take things like that to mean that that person has just plain given up. There are so many tricks and tips anyone can learn if they just tried something different and experimented on their own once in a while. Another thing is that after seeing so many sign painters in my life, I promised myself I'd never let my paint cans skin, use a friggin milk crate as a kit or work from a TV cart
Sorry for being a smart mouth. I have the same problem with enamels, but don't use as much now as I did years ago. I probably throw out more than I put on signs. But then I don't paint on vehicles.
Joey seems to have hit upon the solution.
-------------------- Chapman Sign Studio Temple, Texas chapmanstudio@sbcglobal.net Posts: 6306 | From: Temple, Texas, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
1. Buy ONLY old 1-shot ,if possible. 2. Open the can, add a few drops of Paint Save ,stir it up . 3. pour it into a 8 oz. CLEAR PLASTIC bottle which does not allow the gasses to escape. Maintain AJ
-------------------- Alan Johnson Alan Johnson Grafix Blairstown, NJ 07825 [URL=http://www.alanjohnsongrafix.com] Posts: 261 | From: Blairstown, NJ | Registered: Dec 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
I don't open any can any more. I put 2 screws at oposite borders of the lid. when I pore 1 let the air in the other let the paint out. no more skin ever since. Bonus I get to use the paint till the last drop. I have cans of poster paint with the same...no more problem of hard bottoms.
good luck!
É
-------------------- Élaine Beauchemin scrip Lettrage Scripsit inc. St-Hubert, Quebec, Canada www.scripsit.net Posts: 1096 | From: Saint-Hubert, Québec, Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
I always use the screw method. I spent too many years of breaking through skins and wasting half a can of 1 shot. I use screw eyes in the holes that I make with a nail. I squeeze the paint out into 3oz. bathroom cups. The unwaxed ones. It makes it easy to mix colors also, just a little squirt of this and a little squirt of that.
-------------------- Lou Pascuzzi www.economysigns.com Fine Hand Lettering since 1973 Danbury, Ct 203-748-4580 "IOAFS" Posts: 341 | From: Danbury, Ct | Registered: Feb 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
a couple of suggestions.... get a piece of 4 to 6 mil thick plastic sheeting and using the lid from the can, cut circles out of the material. After yor done mixing and using the paint, lay the disc you cut on top of the paint and seal up the lid. The plastic disc keeps out the air so that no skin forms. When you need to use that color again remove the plastic skin and mix and use the chosen color. If your careful you can reuse the "skin" or pop in a new one.
In reference to Alan Johnson's comment about using "Clear" plastic bottles.... the type of bottle that he suggested and that you are looking for is a PET type plastic. It doesn't emit as much plasticizer and therefore takes much longer to "gel" your paint in the bottle. The bottles are a little harder but can still be squeezed. They also won't "suck down" due to the gelling .
-------------------- Frank Manning Manning Enterprises Unlimited 24832 John J. Williams Hwy., Unit 1, PMB 10 Millsboro, DE., 19966 Posts: 32 | From: Longneck, DE | Registered: Jan 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
Frank, you are a true jem. Thanks for posting that. I have a can of Paint-Sav but I always forget it. And Joey I do keep my paint in a cool, enclosed paint cupboard. If only Sapphire would still be in business....sigh... I am gonna try the screw method. Always thought the bottles looked like a good idea till I noticed that everyone's that I saw at meets were all squeezy-looking. Love....Jill
Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
Thanks to every one for there input,Some good sugestions. i wonder if there is another product like paint-sav since it seems to be hard to find?
-------------------- Stan Yates Crocodile Creek Signs PO Box 308 Waldo FLA 32694 crocodilecreeksigns@juno.com Posts: 85 | From: waldo. fla | Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
Hey Crew we use One shot by the gallon. We buy the pour spouts tops which fit on the top of the gallon cans that you can get at Home depot. Iam still trying to source out ones for the Quart cans my life would be even better.
As for the Squeeze bottles that Frank was mentioning we use them as well they work great. You can get them from Marj at Canadian Sign crafters at 1800-663-9753
-------------------- Steve Thomas Greer ABRACADABRA SIGNS & DESIGNS 102 Stanley St. Ayr, Ont. Canada Posts: 602 | From: Ayr, Ontario. Canada | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Stan, the paint skin being discussed by everyone at this point in your topic, which forms on paint is entirely different from the 'jelly' you initially described.
Paint that turns to jelly won't even form a paint skin, but it does form lumpy-weird 'jelly' skin, and the 'paint' no longer exists at that point either . . . just a mass of tainted . . .jelly.
Paint will only turn to jelly when it sits for a while after strong solvents have been added to it, like laquer thinner for example...
Once it's at this point, it's garbage. Nothing will 'fix' it or thin it. It's a congealed mass of the oil-base of the paint. The colourant is usually at the bottom hard as a rock.
If you must thin paint, thin the amount you want to use separately from the paint in the can.
-------------------- Signs Sweet Home Alabama
oneshot on chat
"Look like a girl, act like a lady, think like a man, work like a dog" Posts: 5758 | From: "Sweet Home" Alabama | Registered: Mar 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Okay, I am properly chastised (Thanks, Joey).I only get One Shot in half pints, some colours are used infrequently, and I'm not really bothered by the skin, just cut it out, scrape it off and stir like hell. Way back I made the mistake of putting thinned paint back in the can...jelly. Don't do that no more! By the way, has anyone noticed that the new 199-L smells just like Nazdar screen ink?What gives? MUR
-------------------- Murray MacDonald OldTime Signs 529 Third Ave S Kenora, ON. P9N 1Y3 oldtimesigns@gokenora.com Posts: 781 | From: Kenora, ON | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I'd do exactly as Gene Golden said. My vinyls are skinning over when they've been on the shelf too long, you know, the ugly colors.
-------------------- Ricky Jackson Signs Now 614 Russell Parkway Warner Robins, GA (478) 923-7722 signpimp50@hotmail.com
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Sir Issac Newton Posts: 3528 | From: Warner Robins, GA | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I think alotta people missed the message in this....its not about joey chastising,its frustration he sees by recommending the same thing over and over for years here only for people to refuse to listen or not believe him b/c its not the person they want to answer the question......its not as much throwing the skin away as it is about keeping the material in the condition you bought it in. 99% of this problem occurs because people get paint in the can lid and dont clean it out,or instead of a $1 can opener they pry the lids off with knives,forks,spoons,screwdrivers or anything else within arms reach radius and they damage the rim that way,or instead of carrying a small $3 deadblow hammer to close can lids they beat em with their hands,shoes,step on em,turn em upside down and smash em into the ground and wonder why they never get a good seal after that.......well no sh*t sherlock. Everyone forgets that losing the solvents thru evaporation,binders ets affects the end qualities of the material like longevity,coverage,mixability etc but will toss that right out the window and blame paint failure on the lack of lead. if enamel gels that badly throw it away but its not that uncommon in this heat if you get some evaporation along with it...some is bound to tell you the eye of newt concotion they use to reconstitute it,just throw it away.
-------------------- Gavin Chachere Plotter in the garage,New Orleans La.
"Sgts Shugart and Gordon again request permission to rope down to crash site two" Posts: 1223 | From: new orleans.la. | Registered: Mar 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
The jelly thing is different from skinning -- it sounds like what happens to Penetrol after it coagulates. The old Liquidseal used to do that, and I think in time the 1 Shot 6000 reducer does that as well. If you mixed 1 of those into your paint and then dumped it back in the can, that would explain the jelly factor. If not ignore what I just said and have a most wonderful weekend.
-------------------- Bill Diaz Diaz Sign Art Pontiac IL www.diazsignart.com Posts: 2107 | From: Pontiac, IL | Registered: Dec 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
I agree with Bill Diaz.... The 1Shot 6000 has a flow enhanser added to the solvent base...that's why it looks yellow in the can and will start gelling right before your eyes. Chromatic's Chromaflo & Edge are similar. These products work very well for what they were designed to do.Don't use these products in paint that you are going to put back in the can. If you need to add something I suggest using 1Shots 6002 High Temp Reducer. The low temp flashes off too fast. The 6002 is strictly solvent based on warm weather use...It's like adding "retarder" to your paint....and use SMALL amounts only. A little goes along way.
-------------------- Frank Manning Manning Enterprises Unlimited 24832 John J. Williams Hwy., Unit 1, PMB 10 Millsboro, DE., 19966 Posts: 32 | From: Longneck, DE | Registered: Jan 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
I always do the 2 hole method with the self taping screws for metal buildings 'cause they have rubber groumet type washers to seal the hole. I also keep all my pint size cans in a big igloo ice chest to keep tne temp some what controlable winter/summer , it also works as a counter top when needed.
posted
Many times I've opened a can at a moment of need and found it starting to gell and addes a small amount of laquer thinner and strained it and this brought it back into service.
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6712 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
Sometimes you can use Marbles. When the can is just above 1/2 full, add some marbles to raise the level of paint to help minimize the amount of air.
kevin betz
-------------------- WILLIAM F. BETZ WILD BILL AND ASSOCIATES 40207 MORAVIAN CLINTON TWP. MI. 586-469-7676 WILDBILLSIGNS@AOL.COM Posts: 8 | From: CLINTON TWP. MI. | Registered: Mar 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Hey Frank , should I say something about the #199 ? never mind , remember what happened last time ? Danm Messengers! I wonder what it looks like with their heads in the sand.
-------------------- Alan Johnson Alan Johnson Grafix Blairstown, NJ 07825 [URL=http://www.alanjohnsongrafix.com] Posts: 261 | From: Blairstown, NJ | Registered: Dec 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
please do say something! i wanna know of any funkiness! and for those of you that use the "screw method"(i love that)lol....i know it sounds stupid but could you please just snap a digital pic and post it...i just wanna see...so i do it right...thanks!
-------------------- Karyn Bush Simply Not Ordinary, LLC Bartlett, NH 603-383-9955 www.snosigns.com info@snosigns.com Posts: 3516 | From: Bartlett, NH USA | Registered: Jan 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
OK Alan...considering all the complaints about the 199L black, 104L Red,and some other colors that I'm still hearing about (considering that today is exactly 1 year since I was "downsized" out of the company) my suggestion is that when you have problems with 1Shot products, you need to call the factory (219-949-1684) and talk to the powers to be. They need to know about the depth and scope of the problems (they can't fix what they don't know is broken )....AND BE HONEST about what you do with your paint, what you mix in with it, how you apply it. After that, it's up to 1Shot to make the difference. I have no official ties to the company anymore. In order to make a difference, the artists who use the product need to contact the manufactures and let them know what's good and bad....especially the bad so that adjustment can be made. If the manufactures don't act, then each artist has a decision to make about using that specific product anymore. Talking and complaining to each other doesn't really get the required info to the right people. Talking to ANYONE other than the manufacturer is just spinning your wheels....No matter what the product line ....paint, HDU, software, etc. There are other companies out there who make good similar or alternative products.
[ July 26, 2005, 10:57 PM: Message edited by: Frank Manning Jr. ]
-------------------- Frank Manning Manning Enterprises Unlimited 24832 John J. Williams Hwy., Unit 1, PMB 10 Millsboro, DE., 19966 Posts: 32 | From: Longneck, DE | Registered: Jan 2002
| IP: Logged |
Hella place to say hi, but, HI!!!(ya ol'fart) Hope to see you up close again someday my friend, till then, it's good to see that you're still above dirt and mean as ever...
Frank
-------------------- Frank Magoo, Magoo's-Las Vegas; fmagoo@netzero.com "the only easy day was yesterday" Posts: 2365 | From: Las Vegas, Nv. | Registered: Jun 2003
| IP: Logged |
-------------------- Alan Johnson Alan Johnson Grafix Blairstown, NJ 07825 [URL=http://www.alanjohnsongrafix.com] Posts: 261 | From: Blairstown, NJ | Registered: Dec 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
I've taken my drill and converted about half my colors to the screw eye method,seems to work pretty good .but some colors like silver,dark green need to be stired just before using so im hold off on all colors wish someone would make little spouts like they used to have for oil can in the old days.
-------------------- Stan Yates Crocodile Creek Signs PO Box 308 Waldo FLA 32694 crocodilecreeksigns@juno.com Posts: 85 | From: waldo. fla | Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged |
Topic Closed
![[I Don t Know]](graemlins/dunno.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Mad]](mad.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
)....AND BE HONEST about what you do with your paint, what you mix in with it, how you apply it. After that, it's up to 1Shot to make the difference. I have no official ties to the company anymore. In order to make a difference, the artists who use the product need to contact the manufactures and let them know what's good and bad....especially the bad so that adjustment can be made. If the manufactures don't act, then each artist has a decision to make about using that specific product anymore. Talking and complaining to each other doesn't really get the required info to the right people. Talking to ANYONE other than the manufacturer is just spinning your wheels....No matter what the product line ....paint, HDU, software, etc. ![[Group Hug]](graemlins/grouphug.gif)
There are other companies out there who make good similar or alternative products.![[Cool]](cool.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic