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i have a potential client that has a sign friend she keeps talking to....their condo is up here so that must be why she's coming to me instead of him. she says his friend has a 5 yr guarantee and whats mine. i'm not sure what to tell her...it will likely be made of 1.5" 18# signfoam with an mdo backing so i have substance to mount thru and rigidity. i will do everything right to the best of my knowledge but i'm so sick of our products failing that i don't want to be totally responsible for everything should the paint look tired in 5 years. i don't know how oneshot is going to perform since they've taken the lead out. i do add hardener and i even use lettering enamels instead of background...ya know like they tell us...we'll replace the material but we don't reimburse for labor. so should i say something along those same lines??? i've heard so many horror stories between wood blanks splitting, paint peeling, vinyl shrinking etc(not that i'll use vinyl)... that it almost makes me want to pass these jobs up.
just curious how others handle this. i'd love to have a spray booth set up so i could use matthews paint....but i don't...soooooo.....what do you other brush or rollin folks say????
-------------------- Karyn Bush Simply Not Ordinary, LLC Bartlett, NH 603-383-9955 www.snosigns.com info@snosigns.com Posts: 3516 | From: Bartlett, NH USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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I don't have one, but most of my painted stuff seems to fade after about 5 years. If there was an obvious failure after about a year or even 18 months, I would fix it. But nothing lasts forever...except my credit card debt. Love....Jill
Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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Karen, Painted HDU will last til you're a greyhaired granny but MDO will not. Here where I live MDO will begin to rot after just a few years. If you use aluminum or aluminum composite for a backer, and laminate it with epoxy or urethane glue like Gorilla Glue or PB-240, you should easily be able to give them a 5 year guarantee against structural failure. In some applications, battens of pure HDU laminated to the back of a single-faced HDU sign will work for backers. I have some of those which have been up for about 8 years and they're good as new. Paint however, will fade depending on type, weather conditions and especially sun exposure. I use acrylic latex paints.
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7403 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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I tell our customers that we give the exact same warranty on our signs as Mercedes and Lexus give on the finish of their cars that sit outside exposed to the weather and are never washed and waxed.
They usually get the point.
[ July 19, 2005, 10:57 AM: Message edited by: Glenn Taylor ]
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"My work is so good it doesn't need a guarantee."
Ask her if her friend's guarantee is on the structure or on the paint, and if his work is so good why is she coming to you??
Cars don't even have 5 year warantees, to hell with people that expect a sign to carry one that long!
I really have no gurantees. I'm in a different market but when I cannot control how he stuff is TAKEN CARE OF or MAINTAINED, I wash my hands of any responsibility.
The structure should last a good long time and you can put up a guarantee to that effect, but the way paints are going these days, sign shops should just tell customers point blank they oughta expect to repaint within a few years if they won't take an active role in cleaning and caring for the sign.
Even automakers will tell you to shove off on paint warranty work if it's apparent your 2yr old vehicle has never been washed or waxed.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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I guarantee my signs for four years, knowing full well they will last longer than that. Ive never had any problems yet. As far as paint Karen, you should try using acrylics on your hdu signs. Porter is probably the best. They will outlast one shot in these circumstances.
-------------------- Maker of fine signs and other creative stuff. Located at 109 N. Cumberland ave. Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-837-0242 Posts: 4172 | From: Ages-Brookside, Ky. Up the Holler... | Registered: Jul 1999
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A couple of years ago, I had a customer try to slip in a 25 year guarantee in the contract documents. That got struck out of the deal. I'm not going to be responsible for the job when I'm in my mid seventies.
I told them I use top of the line products and processes, the sign will last for years, and that I'm not going to guarantee the materials past what the manufacturer does. I pointed out that a guarantee is only as good as the people behind it and since I'm an artist and this is my medium, I'm interested in this sign holding up as long as possible.
It must have satisfied them. I got the job and have had no problems with it.
-------------------- David Harding A Sign of Excellence Carrollton, TX Posts: 5084 | From: Carrollton, TX, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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One year. Same as that $500,000 condo builder gives. I also explain that signs like this typically last up to 10 years, but there are too many variables to guarantee it. If that doesn't satisfy her tell her to have her friend do the job.
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I do not have a guarantee. With "junk" materials, such as Ronan Paint, flooding the market, how would dare guarantee anything? I have always used the best materials available and it shows in my past signs. If they ask, I say "no". If a problem comes up in a reasonable time (2 to 3 years) I have always stood behind my work and repaired it. Your reputation is the Guarantee.
-------------------- Tony Vickio The World Famous Vickio Signs 3364 Rt.329 Watkins Glen, NY 14891 t30v@vickiosigns.com 607-535-6241 http://www.vickiosigns.com Posts: 1063 | From: Watkins Glen, New York | Registered: Sep 2001
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thanks folks...its so true about a 500k condo or house...one year baby...thats all you get. lol. i feel the same way as most of you...i will be using mdo though because its in a very windy area and i don't trust laminated aluminum anymore than laminated wood. i do use west systems to totally cover the edges and i will skim a coat on the exposed back also...because that gets the sun. i'm sure it will last a good long time but i just can't be responsible for all the variables in life.
-------------------- Karyn Bush Simply Not Ordinary, LLC Bartlett, NH 603-383-9955 www.snosigns.com info@snosigns.com Posts: 3516 | From: Bartlett, NH USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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1-4 YEARS on anything i do....that is exposed to mother nature. 25 year wareenty if art work is hung in a hemerticaly controlled vault and insured by loydd's of london.....
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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...Yeah, guarantee them that their business will be considerably more successful if they have a sign done by YOU instead of another sign person. ;' )
...AND guarantee that if they NEVER put the sign (you made) out in the weather, it will LAST FOREVER !!! ...hahaha.
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As far as a guarantee, I have never given one.
I do what many others have said, by telling the customer, that "your sign will weather like anything else painted, but if it is cared for, it will last 5-7 years, maybe longer, mother nature and time will tell".
If something happens to fail in a couple of years, I would fix it right away.
I switched to latex paints about 7 or 8 years ago, and I haven't looked back.
As far as MDO laminated to HDU with West System, I have several signs that are 6-7 years old, that were constructed like this, and these signs are still rock solid. If MDO is sealed well (like anything else), it will last a very long time.
The paint on these signs is latex. Two of the signs are a deep blue/green, facing south, and they look as good as the day I installed them (no chalking, fading, or peeling). I never had One Shot hold up that well!
At the rate these signs are going, they should still look decent after another 5 years. That is 11-12 years, and I would be confident that the sign itself would be in good enough condition to repaint if necessary. Latex or Acrylic paints are the way to go.
I hope this helps,
Peace out, Bob
-------------------- "The 3-4 minute mark of "Freewill" by Rush.
Bob Kaschak Artisan Sign And Design Peru New York Posts: 1873 | From: Upstate NY | Registered: Jul 2002
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I don't actually 'guarantee' . . .but I do mention the quality of the materials involved in the sign, regardless of whether it's a temp sign or a hi-dollar finished sign, which I try to make last as long as possible. I have several signs that still look good after 10 years and some sand-blasted and other type signs I did 15 years ago that we simply were called and contracted to re-coat around the 10 year mark...I fully expect to be called back when they are ready to be coated again.
I explain how long the materials should last and ways they can extend that. I also give examples and references of other similar jobs and how long they've lasted, including sign locations where the customer takes care of the sign and of ones who don't.
I provide about 3 or four levels of pricing a customer can choose from including the level of materials which affect the life expectancy of the sign . . .it seems like these breif explainations help the customer to clarify their needs and they will often choose the longest lasting materials and gladly pay the extra.
Also when a customer chooses a lesser quality sign, the discussion and explainations have helped them realize usually, a valid reason for it, like they only need this sign for 3 or 4 years and then plan to make a major change, etc. . . .then I understand the validity of that too and don't go around thinkin' they are tight-fisted cheap bums . . . lol
Many of these types become repeat customers even if their 'plan' changes and they need to have the sign replaced. They remembered that I took the time to explain how long they could expect the work to hold-up, and are happy to come back knowing they got, and will get, what THEY choose specifically for their needs.
PS: I fergot to mention another thing that helps keep the concept 'up-front' about what my customers are buying is the fact that all the spec information pertaining to their sign is written on their invoice which is also providing a copy for me. If a certain customer is particularly 'preoccupied' with how long a sign will last, even after we've gone through the explainations and signatures, additional information is noted on both their original and my copy of the paperwork. I'm apt to write a comment like: "Sign expected to be in place for 3 years max - business subject to change owners at that time."
Over the years, I think I've had one or two come back and grumble about the sign THEY CHOSE not lasting . . .and I was able to say: 'Let me look up the specs on that'. We look at the materials and notations and they recalled the whole thing and explain that their business plan had'nt materialized, etc.
posted
In the words of one of Steve Martin's character- the used car salesman Raymond Creasal= "We guarantee NOT to guarantee anything that is not guaranteed, in writing."
-------------------- Michael Clanton Clanton Graphics/ Blackberry 19 Studio 1933 Blackberry Conway AR 72034 501-505-6794 clantongraphics@yahoo.com Posts: 1735 | From: Conway Arkansas | Registered: Oct 2001
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I've never offered a warantee and I've never had a job come back on me.
On the ocassion someone should press the point I have on occasion told the customer if they have a problem within a year I'd take care of it...(never had to)
On the occasion someone comes at me demanding a 5,10 or even more ridiculous time span I have walked away from the bid leaving them twist in the wind til they have contacted everyone in town then called me back (foregoing their demands)
I'm sorry but...(in my opinion) warrantees for things exposed to the wrath of God is foolhardy at best!
-------------------- "Werks fer me...it'll werk fer you"
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I was told...I had 85yrs to live out my life. Do you suppose we'll have a different president by then ? No guarantee !
CrazyJack
-------------------- Jack Wills Studio Design Works 1465 E.Hidalgo Circle Nye Beach / Newport, OR Posts: 2914 | From: Rocklin, CA. USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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