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When I need an image to cut with the plotter, I often draw it myself, alot of it for practice. So I have these images, I share them with a freind, I might put them together and sell a CD some day, whatever. I'm probably not the only one who thinks of that.
But I recently had this thought. Let's say the images are "out there". They've been given away, sold, copied, so on. Where will those images end up 20 years from now, or 30?
I once read that most of the gold ever mined in history is still in circulation. Think of it, a small part of your wedding band may have been on a king or even pharoh.
Assuming there's even a need for vector images in times to come I wonder. After all, they are lines made from mathematical calculations, there may be a use for that long into the future.
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
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judging by all the corporate clients that can't even dig up vector artwork for me to make them a sign of their own logo... I wouldn't hold out much hope for a few line drawings I might have created over the years.
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Ooh ouch...reality like a slap in the face! I just dealt with the same thing from a big RE firm.
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
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As a Vector artist, I will say.... Don't bother,the industry is saturated completely. Look at all of the 100,000 image disks that are offered as well. The new stuff by sign artists are only good for short runs and the time and energy wipes out a fair amount of profit. An average file has to be touched at least 7 times during cleanup and 4-5 times to process into the final folders for cataloging. whew...! It just simply takes time if done right.
CrazyJack
-------------------- Jack Wills Studio Design Works 1465 E.Hidalgo Circle Nye Beach / Newport, OR Posts: 2914 | From: Rocklin, CA. USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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Ahhh, once again I probably havn't communicated clearly enough. For me, there's an emotional side of this, the fascination with the idea that an image, file, calculation, whatever you call it, is kept 'alive' in the 'environment' of a computer.
Before, you would put the idea on paper, maybe make copies, print some of them off. And as long as one of these could be found, the image was still in exhistance. But now, the image (in my case) is drawn on a computer that is on the edge of being obsolete. So I make an image, send it to a freind. This computer 'dies', but the image 'lives' on.
That's what's interesting here: How long will (can?) an image be passed on, still 'alive' in computers that are sure to become 'dead'?
Sure, the image can be stored at any time on a CD, but I guess I'm also wondering how long will the types of files we're using be valid? Will they still be using cdr, pdf, jpg, bmp files 30 years from now?
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
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Vectors are a fundamental technology in digital graphics. No different than a brick or a block or a wooden board is in construction. They are pure mathematical descriptions from which 99.9% of non-photographic raster art is derived.
Today almost all fonts are vectors and most professionally prepared commercial artwork is prepared first as vectors. Secondary work may then be generated as rasters to suit any purpose where a raster image may be needed.
There has also been a huge commitment to vector technology. As such, for vectors to be replaced, it would pretty much take a highly compelling new technology for that to happen. Just as it would take a highly compelling technology to replace the brick, the concrete block and the 2 x 4 in construction.
-------------------- Fred Weiss Allied Computer Graphics, Inc. 4620 Lake Worth Road Lake Worth, FL 33463 561 649-6300 allcompu@allcompu.com Posts: 427 | From: Lake Worth, Florida | Registered: Feb 2003
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I think I know whatcha mean, James. Is it that maybe 30 years from now, you might be walking through a mall or sumthing, and while looking up you might see something that you designed many years ago? It would kinda be cool to have something you designed being used for many , many years to come. Kinda like the maltease cross, happy face or the chrome mudflap girl. But how would furture designers know that it was designed by you. Even after your gone?
-------------------- Signs by Alicia Jennings (Mudflap Girl) Tacoma, WA Since 1987 Have Lipstick, will travel. Posts: 3814 | From: Tacoma, WA. U.S.A. | Registered: Dec 1999
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James, I am glad you metioned this subject, because I have been thinking about saving all my images that I have drawn, scanned, & vectorized. Right now they are scattered on different jobs, but i would very much like to have them all on a cd for me, or to help my friends with if they need them.
-------------------- The Word in Signs Bobbie Rochow Jamestown, PA 16134
724-927-6471
thewordinsigns@alltel.net Posts: 3485 | From: Jamestown, PA 16134 | Registered: Oct 2002
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In answer to Alicia Jennings... I have the opportunity to see these graphics and fonts all the time. I have done a few Cd's and many fonts which I see all the time on Rig's and store fronts and even in magazine ads. It's a kick in the ass to see something published that I and a Co-builder have created. If you have ever used "Snappy" font for example, That was a 15 minute creation while Dave, from Sign DNA, watched and waited in my shop. It's nice to know that some of the stuff I have done is everlasting. But....the high only lasts so long.
CrazyJack
-------------------- Jack Wills Studio Design Works 1465 E.Hidalgo Circle Nye Beach / Newport, OR Posts: 2914 | From: Rocklin, CA. USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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Jack, I see your Point with the 100,000 Item disks but one thing on most of those Generic clipart Disks are 99,900 are useless Crap. I am always on the lookout for quality clipart and don't mind paying extra for the same. I know there are many people out there that feel the same way. As for them getting old. Look at the speedball books. There old but they seem to be making a comeback. I know I snag up everyone I can find and one day would like to use them to create new clipart and info for future Sign makers.. Just another project for another life.
Just 1 cent worth.
[ July 19, 2005, 02:52 AM: Message edited by: William DeBekker ]
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As a vendor or vinyl images... --currently at vinylready.com --and previously as founder of clipart.com I’ve got some insight here. (Let me step up on my soapbox)
As long as there are graphic artists, sign makers, screen printers, embroiderers, and engravers there will be a need for art. As a matter of fact, I’m sure the demand will increase, not decrease over time.
There is a HUGE amount of original commerical art out there, and a majority of it is hiding on people’s hard drives. That is were the opportunity lies -- finding the larger collections and licensing them for resale – either on CD or online. I’ve paid out a great deal of royalties the past 15 years doing just that.
I don’t worry too much about cheap CDs available on Ebay. I’ve seen them go as cheap as $5. Those CDs are virtually useless. Zero quality control, no search tools, copyright infringing... I can go on and on. Anyone who buys them to save money realizes they don’t.
I am concerned about sites like brandsoftheworld.com that have aggregated 100,000 of images. They have stolen their collections and blatantly broken copyright laws by grabbing their images from commercial CDs and other internet sites. They can get away with it simply because they are in Russia where the long arm of the law can’t reach them.
For those of you with large collections of images you have created yourself… don’t sit on them… LICENSE THEM! They can be a great source of incremental income. Heck, there are some vendors who make a living licensing their images. They do no good sitting in your hard drive. Let vendors like Vinylready.com, OCA, VinylArt and others help you make money from them.
For those of you who use CDs from Ebay or sites like brandsoftheworld.com – reconsider what you are supporting.
(Stepping off my soapbox now)
Peter
[ July 19, 2005, 08:41 PM: Message edited by: Peter Gariepy ]
-------------------- Peter Gariepy Tucson, AZ Posts: 100 | From: Tucson, AZ | Registered: Jan 2005
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Just curious Peter but I've gotta ask...what's wrong with brandsoftheworld.com?
I have the same problem Doug has, corporate clients who can't come up with a vectorized version of their own logo. I can either handle 15 phone calls with them as they send me 15 different jpegs or I can charge them a $20 artwork fee and go to that site and get the logo. If I'm using a bank logo, for that bank, why is that a problem? Because I didn't pay somebody for a collection?
-------------------- Pat Whatley Montgomery, AL (334) 262-7446 office (334) 324-8465 cell Posts: 1306 | From: Wetumpka, AL USA | Registered: Mar 2001
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Brandsoftheworld.com has aquired most of their content from commercial cdrom collections and for-pay websites. They dont create anything on their own or pay the people who do create it.
They can get away with it because our copyright laws are not enforceable in Russia.
Peter
[ July 19, 2005, 11:25 PM: Message edited by: Peter Gariepy ]
-------------------- Peter Gariepy Tucson, AZ Posts: 100 | From: Tucson, AZ | Registered: Jan 2005
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Peter, I can tell you that brandsoftheworld.com has just as much right as OCA, Smart Designs and the rest to provide a logo service.
So how much right is that? None. All these collections are done without the cooperation or permission of the owners of the marks.
I published one of the first logo collections for sign companies starting back in 1993. Agfa did it back in the late 1980's. It was some of the best income I've ever had in my life. I stopped doing it when I found myself in an undefendable position at the mercy of an attorney and didn't like the feeling.
And everybody sources everybody else. Smart Designs sourced my collection and then their sales manager left and started OCA and he sourced Smart Design's collection. Then Lots of Logos sourced everybody else. And on and on ad infinitum.
I'm surprised you're even offering it at your new site. I was a content provider at Rebelartist.com when Ad-Art's logos appeared there. Then, as far as I can tell, and also what was told to me by Dan Burke, the next thing anybody knew the attorney letters started coming in. Then the next thing we all knew was that Rebelartist.com ceased to exist.
The simple fact is that none of the creators of the digital files representing the trademarked work can be protected from redistribution because none of the creators have any rights in the material.
Most of the files you find at brandsoftheworld.com have been uploaded by a worldwide voluntary group of participants ... not stolen by the operators of the site. This is not to make excuses for the reality of what it is ... stolen digital files. But the fact remains that what they are doing is perfectly legal where they are based.
You're operating in a very nasty area of the digital art business with the logos you are showing and distributing. And you are no more right in doing this, IMHO, than are the operators of brandsoftheworld.com.
-------------------- Fred Weiss Allied Computer Graphics, Inc. 4620 Lake Worth Road Lake Worth, FL 33463 561 649-6300 allcompu@allcompu.com Posts: 427 | From: Lake Worth, Florida | Registered: Feb 2003
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So, how is me getting an AmSouth Bank logo...FOR FREE...to use for AmSouth Bank a bad thing? For that matter does that mean I was wrong for posting logos there even though I've repeatedly had customers thank me for doing it?
I'm not trying to smack you around or anything, I'm just wondering who's getting hurt in that situation: The bank that owns the logo that needs me to have it to do work for them? Me, who is going to have to reproduce it if they can't come up with it? The person who designed it? Weren't they already paid for the logo by the bank? A Russian website who makes it available to me for free? Am I actually supposed to believe that there is an evil Russian conspiracy out there to create a website and let me access logos for free all in some twisted plot to take over the world?
[ July 20, 2005, 12:55 AM: Message edited by: Patrick Whatley ]
-------------------- Pat Whatley Montgomery, AL (334) 262-7446 office (334) 324-8465 cell Posts: 1306 | From: Wetumpka, AL USA | Registered: Mar 2001
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I am with you Patrick, most companies have executives that have no clue about their artwork they just want a sign when they call us. If they would supply their artwork with their guidlines for proper use then their would be no need for brandsoftheworld or any of the others websites with logos. I can not think of one time when someone asked for a sign that did not rightly have all rights to have it made and used. When the manager from the local Ford dealer calls for a sign I am not going to ask him for the artwork and I am not going to call Henery Ford either.
-------------------- Steve Eisenreich Dezine Signs PO BOX 6052 Stn Forces Cold Lake, Alberta T9M 2C5 Posts: 774 | From: Cold Lake | Registered: Mar 2000
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You are right on most points. Selling logos is a dicey area.
The difference between brandsoftheworld and companies like OCA, VinylReady, Ad-Art and others is that BOTW didnt pay for their content. These companies paid for their content either by making it, or by paying a royalty. Thats the big difference.
--- I appologize for creating a firestorm on this issue. I just worry that people percieve BOTW as an innocent site, were in fact a lot of people's hard work goes unpaid for there - that is my point. ---
Peter
P.S. FYI - rebelartist.com didnt close because of the logos licenses from adart.com. Yes, the logos were taken down because of legal issues. But the site shut down because it didnt make money, that simple.
[ July 20, 2005, 08:50 AM: Message edited by: Peter Gariepy ]
-------------------- Peter Gariepy Tucson, AZ Posts: 100 | From: Tucson, AZ | Registered: Jan 2005
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Hi Peter I am not trying to fan the flames of your Firestorm I am just asking a question please do not take me wrong. For example if I get the Ford logo from your web site who gets paid? Now once I have paid to use the Ford logo once can I use it indefinitely? In my way of thinking the designer of the Ford logo has been paid long ago. Are you proposing that the original designer gets paid a percentage everytime the Ford logo is downloaded? Since BOTW makes no money who are they hurting heck I find it hard to beleive that you even charge for those types of logos unless you are paying to resell them.
-------------------- Steve Eisenreich Dezine Signs PO BOX 6052 Stn Forces Cold Lake, Alberta T9M 2C5 Posts: 774 | From: Cold Lake | Registered: Mar 2000
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I licensed all my logos from a gentleman named David Dachs, owner of InnovativeCLIPart.com. David has been creating these logos (as well as some great clipart) himself over the past 10-12 years. Yes, he gets paid every time one of his creations is downloaded from vinylready.com.
Yes, once you pay to use the image you can use it all you want. (As long as you follow the license agreement)
BOTW hurts guys like Innovative Advertising when they give away his images on their free website.
I change for them because i do pay to resell them.
Thanks for askn!
Peter
-------------------- Peter Gariepy Tucson, AZ Posts: 100 | From: Tucson, AZ | Registered: Jan 2005
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Suppose I create a vector image of the RedBull logo (which I did once), but I don't any association with the Redbull company. How can I license that image? Just curious.
My mind wanders. And that's not a good thing, 'cause it's too small to be out there alone. Posts: 3129 | From: Tooele, UT | Registered: Mar 2005
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None of which responds to my point that no one except the trademark owner has any rights in the work. Further, anyone distributing someone else's trademarked work or other intellectual property is infringing and can be sued civilly and/or prosecuted criminally for doing so under US law. In particular if it is for profit.
During the final months at Rebelartist, there was a great deal of activity and removal of any kind of work which might be infringing on someone's trademarks. You guys issued letters and eliminated entire collections of cars, recognizeable buildings, work with recognizeable features on peoples faces etc.
I have no doubt the site didn't perform well financially. You guys created a digital machine that was superb and then let everybody do as they pleased without supervision. We tried to relate the problems to you through your forum only to have you shut it down in anger. You might as well have built a zoo and turned it over to the animals to run it.
If I owned the technology you developed, I'd be out making it into a commercially available product. Imagefolio gets $1250 a pop for their core ecommerce product and about another $750 to customize it for tracking content provider sales. Guys like me looking to market clipart would buy your version in a heartbeat.
Please don't misunderstand my comments here though. I have some strong opinions about RA but it's nothing personal. It was your shot to call and business is business.
[ July 20, 2005, 11:27 PM: Message edited by: Fred Weiss ]
-------------------- Fred Weiss Allied Computer Graphics, Inc. 4620 Lake Worth Road Lake Worth, FL 33463 561 649-6300 allcompu@allcompu.com Posts: 427 | From: Lake Worth, Florida | Registered: Feb 2003
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Peter you have 54 Ford logos did this guy make them all? And if he did how can he resell them to you to resell what does Ford think? And next question are the logos that David Dachs the very same ones that he made the ones I can download for free from BOTW?
-------------------- Steve Eisenreich Dezine Signs PO BOX 6052 Stn Forces Cold Lake, Alberta T9M 2C5 Posts: 774 | From: Cold Lake | Registered: Mar 2000
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Why pay the bottom feeders? Any body worth his salt as a sign artist should be able to look at it & re-create it good enuff to cut in vinyl - sure it might take a little time - but ain't that what we do? I refuse to buy art - I didn't invest my life's work to have to succumb to buying logo's over the 'net . . .I spent too many days bowed down over an art table working for others- -ruling forms & re-creating logo's with a Rapidio-Graph pen & amberlith & x-acto's -an we didn't have no stinkin computers to make it easier- it ain't braggin iffin you can do it - -this is almost as annoying as seeing Real Estate ads referring to their sales people as "Producers" - they don't produce a damn thing except their ego - over & out - Carl signdesign@earthlink.net
[ July 21, 2005, 03:34 AM: Message edited by: Carl Wood ]
-------------------- Carl Wood Olive Branch, Ms Posts: 1392 | From: Olive Branch,MS USA | Registered: Nov 1999
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Steve, I dont have 54 "ford" logos, I have 54 pages of images with a keyword of "ford". For example, I have templates of ford automobiles (F150, Taurus, etc) going back 15 years, and I have every ford logo you can imagine, including "Ford", "Ford Leasing", "Excursion", "Motorcraft" etc.
Dachs made all the logos, and another vendor made all the vhield templates.
Hope that answers your question.
Peter
P.S. Yes, there are countless images created by David Dachs freely downloadable from BOTW. Thats just not right.
[ July 21, 2005, 11:43 AM: Message edited by: Peter Gariepy ]
-------------------- Peter Gariepy Tucson, AZ Posts: 100 | From: Tucson, AZ | Registered: Jan 2005
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Certainly if you have the artistic skills to create your own art, photos, fonts, etc it doenst make sense for you to purchase pre-created art.
For those who are not so artisitically inclined, or for those who would rather save time by simply paying for an image, photo or font then consider using a service like mine, OCA, VinylArt, Corbus, Getty, Agfa, Monotype, etc.
Catagorizing us as "bottom feeders" isnt fair. We are legitimate businesses providing a valuable service - and we all pay our suppliers of art - unlike BOTW, etc.
Peter
[ July 21, 2005, 12:56 PM: Message edited by: Peter Gariepy ]
-------------------- Peter Gariepy Tucson, AZ Posts: 100 | From: Tucson, AZ | Registered: Jan 2005
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Peter, thanks for contributing to this thread.
I'm fairly new to this vectorizing business, but I think I've logged enough hours in to have a clue. It's time consuming. If you and the one that drew the art are willing to sell the image at X price, then that's cool, I don't see where that would be bottom feeding.
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
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Thanks for the answers Peter you are right it is not right that BOTW is using any of your work. Is their anyway to tell who made what and could you finish anwering my question about what does Ford think?
-------------------- Steve Eisenreich Dezine Signs PO BOX 6052 Stn Forces Cold Lake, Alberta T9M 2C5 Posts: 774 | From: Cold Lake | Registered: Mar 2000
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Steve, "anyway to tell who made what?"... probably, but it's time not well spent because there is not way to police BOTW.
"what does Ford think?"... cant answer for them specifically, but i can tell you this, as sigmakers you need access to logos, it's a fact of the business. Getting this art from a company like Ford is virtually impossible. Althought technically a copyright/trademark infringement - companies like Ford turn a blind eye because our service benefits them as much as it benefits you.
Peter
-------------------- Peter Gariepy Tucson, AZ Posts: 100 | From: Tucson, AZ | Registered: Jan 2005
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Peter - whadd'ya mean getting that art from Ford is virtually impossible???? all you gotta do is stop by your local Ford Showroom - plenty of brochures & sales pamphlets to scan from . . .plus you might leave in a brand-New ride . . . . .I didn't refer to you specifically as (one of them bottom feeders). But some of the stuff I've seen sold as "Vector Art" left a bad taste in my mouth - - -
[ July 24, 2005, 03:35 AM: Message edited by: Carl Wood ]
-------------------- Carl Wood Olive Branch, Ms Posts: 1392 | From: Olive Branch,MS USA | Registered: Nov 1999
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Carl, I think Peter meant you can't ask Ford for their logos in vector format.
Peter, I see BOTW as filling a niche that allows people to download, for free, trademarked logos which can't be properly licensed anyway. The trademark owners don't pursue legal action, probably because having the logos distributed is more of a help than a hindrance to them. In this case, I don't see a difference between BOTW and any other company that distributes logos. None of the companies has a real right to distribute the logos, so I might as well get the images free from BOTW.
Using copyrighted clipart images would be much different in my opinion. The artists and clipart companies have created the images for the purpose of making money. I would expect to pay a license fee for the use of clipart images.
My mind wanders. And that's not a good thing, 'cause it's too small to be out there alone. Posts: 3129 | From: Tooele, UT | Registered: Mar 2005
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In the far distant future, clipart will be stored on nanochips inside Signborgs, shooting vinyl out of guns at plastic walls and space rovers on Mars.
posted
I think you'll find that most automobile dealers, including Ford dealers, are issued a CD-ROM each year with current authorized versions of their marks for local use.
-------------------- Fred Weiss Allied Computer Graphics, Inc. 4620 Lake Worth Road Lake Worth, FL 33463 561 649-6300 allcompu@allcompu.com Posts: 427 | From: Lake Worth, Florida | Registered: Feb 2003
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Fred, although I have never had the opportunity to do any work for local car dealerships that required an accurate logo, I'll bet that you are correct.
I do a fair amount of work for a local manufacturer that is a subsiduary of Andersen Windows. Each year I am provided with a new CD containing Andersen's current logos and markings. This assures them that I am supplying an accurate, current, representation of their image. Obviously they don't have to worry about me using them for other purposes since they are so brand specific.
(Yes, I have used them on individual contractor's vehicles when they were authorised installers of Andersen products.)
(No, I do not lend out, copy, share or otherwise compromise the trust they have shown by giving me these images.)
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
posted
You guys can have the corporate logo world, the money is in redrawing logos for the smaller businesses and offering them a little media package for their future use because they didn't get jack from whoever created their logo in the first place.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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So, the local Ford dealership calls & needs some work done. Obviously they are allowed to use the logo. I can a) Wait 2 months while they argue over who lost the cd they got from Ford and over who's responsibility it is to ask Ford for another one. b) Drive to their showroom, get some literature with their logo on it, drive back to shop, scan & vectorize it. (While I'm at it I may as well drive all over the state getting ingredients to make my own paint & vinyl too) c) Spend a few minutes of my time to download it for free or a few bucks. From a business standpoint, anything but choice c is just flat out stupid.
This BOTW vs. pay site thing has me shaking my head. Say I vectorize a logo for a corporate customer because they can't find their cd. They own the logo, not me but I can use it for their stuff. How can I sell that to a logo site? I don't own it to begin with. Yes, I put the time in to vectorize it, but I thought the big no-no for copyrighted artwork was when you used it for profit for someone who doesn't own the copyright (or permission like a dealership). I don't see how that's different than the Ford dealership having me make their signs, then me selling cheap vinyl decals of their logo at the flea market, which I clearly don't have the right to do.
-------------------- Chris Welker Wildfire Signs Indiana, Pa Posts: 4254 | From: Indiana, PA | Registered: Mar 2001
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What will happen to vector art in the future being the topic, I'd guess the same thing that happened to all those books of camera ready art that we used before vector art/computer graphics. The good stuff will be converted to whatever the new medium turns out to be, and the crap will turn to digital dust.
quote:Originally posted by Kissymatina: So, the local Ford dealership calls & needs some work done. Obviously they are allowed to use the logo. I can a) Wait 2 months while they argue over who lost the cd they got from Ford and over who's responsibility it is to ask Ford for another one. b) Drive to their showroom, get some literature with their logo on it, drive back to shop, scan & vectorize it. (While I'm at it I may as well drive all over the state getting ingredients to make my own paint & vinyl too) c) Spend a few minutes of my time to download it for free or a few bucks. From a business standpoint, anything but choice c is just flat out stupid.
This BOTW vs. pay site thing has me shaking my head. Say I vectorize a logo for a corporate customer because they can't find their cd. They own the logo, not me but I can use it for their stuff. How can I sell that to a logo site? I don't own it to begin with. Yes, I put the time in to vectorize it, but I thought the big no-no for copyrighted artwork was when you used it for profit for someone who doesn't own the copyright (or permission like a dealership). I don't see how that's different than the Ford dealership having me make their signs, then me selling cheap vinyl decals of their logo at the flea market, which I clearly don't have the right to do.
I would say that with the internet at your disposal you would first ask for the CD, or the correct file by email, and if they can't find it then ask for permission to supply a non-authorized version. Then download if from the supplier of your choice.
Obviously either is preferable to scanning a brochure or other printed art source and using that.
-------------------- Fred Weiss Allied Computer Graphics, Inc. 4620 Lake Worth Road Lake Worth, FL 33463 561 649-6300 allcompu@allcompu.com Posts: 427 | From: Lake Worth, Florida | Registered: Feb 2003
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I just dealt with the same thing from a big RE firm.
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