posted
The way I look at it, we all get aggravated and mad when customers go out and get the cheapest sign they can find, or make one up of their own. In this instance, why in the world would you cut corners and make up your own application fluid when a tried, proven product is out there just for that purpose. The cost is not high when you use the right amount, only pennies per job, and even if you do think it is high, add it into the price. If you make your own, its basically "bootleg" application fluid, the same as bootleg fonts, etc. We should apply the thinking we have of cheap customers to ourselves, and not think like them.
-------------------- Maker of fine signs and other creative stuff. Located at 109 N. Cumberland ave. Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-837-0242 Posts: 4172 | From: Ages-Brookside, Ky. Up the Holler... | Registered: Jul 1999
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posted
Good point John, the other thing is this, if the Rapid Tac or TacII is being used correctly it will be an obvious difference from "soap&water".
Amway,Shaklee,etc. are not going to give you a "bonding benefit" especially in cold weather applications down to 20degrees F. Some folks are using Rapid Tac products but don't actually use them the right way, they misunderstand the fact of cleaning ONLY with the application fluid, or they just use them to "mist" on the substrate(whick causes bubbles and never KICKS OFF the adhesive), we talk with many people weekly who encounter problems of this nature.
Roger
-------------------- Roger Bailey Rapid Tac Incorporated 186 Combs Dr. Merlin Oregon 97532 Posts: 3020 | From: Merlin Oregon | Registered: Dec 1998
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posted
I beg to differ on that point Roger. I have personally used this product in varying temperature extremes and had, as I mentioned great results...although I question the sensibility of applying ANY vinyl at temperatures lower than what the manufacturer reccomends.
And nobody here is advocating anything from Amway. Like I said I have been using this stuff since before I ever even HEARD of Rapid Tac.
Roger I know you have a product to sell, and I understand you sticking by your guns, but that doesn't mean that yours is the only, best solution (pun intended).
posted
Barry, I am not upset that some folks use other solutions, Im glad you have something your happy with. I'm just trying to point out the reasons to use my product over soap&water, now you mention (in one breath) having great results in varying temp. extremes yet go on to say you question the sensibility of wet application in temperatures lower then the manufacturers stated limits (thats usually no less then 45degreesF.). We would all be in trouble if we had to follow those guidelines, heck the soap&water will freeze a temperatures (20 to 30 degreesF.),period. I'm sure your solution works for you, but not at those temperatures.
Roger
-------------------- Roger Bailey Rapid Tac Incorporated 186 Combs Dr. Merlin Oregon 97532 Posts: 3020 | From: Merlin Oregon | Registered: Dec 1998
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posted
Avery, Arlon, Oracal, pracitally everyone but 3-M. Why not 3-M ? well, they're funny about advocating products that don't have they're name on the label.
Barry, would you like free samples of the Rapid Products ? Rapid Tac Rapid TacII Rapid Remover Rapid Prep Rapid Clear If so, just e-mail your street address to; mail@rapidtac.com I have been giving out free samples since 1987
Roger
-------------------- Roger Bailey Rapid Tac Incorporated 186 Combs Dr. Merlin Oregon 97532 Posts: 3020 | From: Merlin Oregon | Registered: Dec 1998
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posted
Barry,I detect a bit of resentment from your last statement, whats up ? I plug the free sample offer quite frequently here and other sites, does that bother you ?
Roger
-------------------- Roger Bailey Rapid Tac Incorporated 186 Combs Dr. Merlin Oregon 97532 Posts: 3020 | From: Merlin Oregon | Registered: Dec 1998
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posted
Bob, the Rapid Clear is a great cleaner and polish for Plixiglass (and just about any other type of hard smooth surfase), its VERY simple to use and VERY inexpencive. I like to use it on my glasses,convertable windows, monitor screens, it makes vinyl shine very nicely.
DO NOT use Rapid Clear BEFORE applying vinyl !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! There is just the slighteset amount of a product like silicon, it will cause bonding problems.
Roger
-------------------- Roger Bailey Rapid Tac Incorporated 186 Combs Dr. Merlin Oregon 97532 Posts: 3020 | From: Merlin Oregon | Registered: Dec 1998
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posted
Have allways used Rapid Tac and allways will!
My customers Love the Smell when they come in! Some have compared it to the smell of a McDonalds Vinilla Milkshake - sometimes they come just for the Smell!
Rapid Remover is also very good. A little goes along way!
-------------------- Peter Koriath business sold Posts: 32 | From: Kelowna, B.C. | Registered: Jan 2005
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posted
i think this thread has kinda taken a wrong turn somewhere !
i did a van today, using all i had to hand, which was soap and water, i washed down the van with a similar solution, dried it off, left it feeling sticky to rub your finger over, ie, no residue etc, and applied it wet, this gave me a good 15 mins to play with it, and even raise one letter that had got creased on a curve, and re-lay it before going down with the squeegie. the end rsult was a very happy customer, and a job (albeit a simple one) that has a great finished result that i was happy with,
i was almost tempted to try applying dry, i'm glad i didnt, just after i'd removed the release paper and turned to dump it behnd me, a breeze picked up the design and flipped it back on the van, i know i could have taken precautions to prevent this, but i hadn't, has i not lready soaked the area i'd have been left with a waster decal stuck all over the place, that about my usual luck, so i think i'll be sticking with wet,
to date, i've usd neither rapid or basic H, i'm open to both, basic H has been explained very well to me, but i still feel some reluctance to try rapid, i know many of you endorse it, so i'll not say i wont try it, but how long does it give you to work with the vinyl, if as you say, it speeds up the process of adhesion, my main concern is to not have time to rectify any possible mistakes that are sometimes missed when the vinyl is first layed down,
btw, after application on the said design today, it simply soaked the appl' paper and removed it within a few minutes with virtually no need to have to run over any thing again, the only exception was on a couple of very fine lines that had not initially bonded, ten seconds to lay the paper back across it and apply the squeegie again, and it was stuck,
posted
I've not tried any other brands but home-brew (3 drops non-lotion dish soap & 1 capful of rubbing alcohol to a spray bottle of water) and Rapid Tacs 1 & 2. I usually do apply wet and love RT. Two requests would be to please improve the smell of RT2 and to make Rapid Prep a more distinguishable color from RT.
That clear is GREAT for cleaning scratched CDs and eyeglasses too! But not as a prep for painting panels.
Good luck Hugh, sorry you got stuck in a quarrel just by asking an innocent question. Please don't let it leave a sour taste in your mouth. Love....Jill
Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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posted
Seems to me the man asked a simple question. I remember doing that here also and being jumped all over because I had the audacity to question some of the answers. It must be nice to be a know it all. I have been in the sign business for 53 years. I am 64 years old and think I am still learning. Why not lighten it up a little or better yet...lighten up a lot.
-------------------- Jerry Starpoli Starpoli Signs... since 1952
845-795-2438 Posts: 446 | From: Milton, NY US | Registered: Jun 2000
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but have you ever noticed things like this ALWAYS seem to happen where ever people are . . .
I cain't figger it out neether . . .
Just my two cents but, I ALMOST never apply vinyl wet . . .but feel free to do so since I could care less if you do or don't, or what you use to do it . . . just as long as we all do it MAN . . .
(insert 60's flower-child-flowers, peace symbols and musical tunes)
I would say: I NEVER do, but I never say never . . . besides, I HAVE done some big peices on glass where I had to wet-apply . . .I can't even recall WHAT I used, but if I have another one like those?
Mabey I'll order somethin' . . . .
or mabey I'll make due.
I also use an ol' sock to pounce . . . (gasp)
And since we're 'fessin' up . . . .
there are a number of things I make and use around the shop . . .
And sometimes I use a butter knife for a screw driver . . . and I use a screwdriver for a scraper... I use construction chalk for pounce powder . . .I use charcoal for drawing . . .
And I admit that I use typing paper for copier paper and I use copier paper for drawing on . . . and ...*gulp* I sometimes use my fingers to paint with . . .
. . . and . . . and . . .I have used things other than 'shampoo' to wash my hair with . . . (*breaks down crying*) OMG, this feels SO good to get this out . . .
And I use a large number of off-the-wall things within my immediate reach to kill bugs with . . .
and now . . . the BIGGIE . . . .
I buy a lot of my sign supplies from people who are NOT letterville merchants . . . .
So THERE.
.
.
.
. . . so now what?
Are they gonna take us outside Letterville and stone us or what?
-------------------- Signs Sweet Home Alabama
oneshot on chat
"Look like a girl, act like a lady, think like a man, work like a dog" Posts: 5758 | From: "Sweet Home" Alabama | Registered: Mar 2003
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-------------------- Jon Aston MARKETING PARTNERS "Strategy, Marketing and Business Development" Tel 705-719-9209 Posts: 1724 | From: Barrie, ON, CANADA | Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
jerry and i use the golden shower method..right jerry? hehehehehehehehehe
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
LOL, i'm not offended, just figured it was a little heavy for a sensible numpty question,
i'm happy to try a sample of the rapid tac, and prep, i've no reason not too, and i cant make judgement without trying them, like i sadi tho, my only concern is the amount of time i have to work with the vinyl when wet, anyone ? and by that, i mean before i attack with the squeegie, reposiioning etc, until i can build my confidence in application, this is how i'll do it,
posted
I have been installing vinyl for 25 years, and only use application fluid for installations where ia cannot get out of the sunlight. Not using it has nothing to do with cost, I just like dry installation....it's the way I learned.
I also reccomend Rapid Tac products on the rare occasions when I do use application fluids. The Rapid Remover, however, is a part of my regular arsenol.
""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3485 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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Wow you couldn't have got better advertising that you've had on this site.
For small jobs, Rapid Tac is very good, if you don't have the skills to do dry application.
On vehicles with pop rivits, it's always a problem to get the water out of those crevises. Dry is best.
Next door to us is a window tinting company. Every one in the sign industry should go by one of those shops and watch. They sling lots of transparent film with relative ease. A moderate sized tinting shop will apply more film in a day than we'd do in a month. You might ask them what they use for a application fluid. Yes I know the adhesives are different, but not that much. They are ever so concerned with air bubbles so It's soap and water, with a little alchohol, and away they go.
When doing big photographic billboards, we use the old pressure sprayer, armed with suds and alchohol. I figure we use about three gallons on a 10'X20' piece. I guess Rapid Tac would do the job, but why change a perfectly good system which would cost lots more?
Yep, for little realty signs, I might use it, but haven't done a banner or realty signs in years. We'll never do it again. Also we never ever use any floating fluid on latex, unless you have lots of time on your hands.
-------------------- Joe Crumley Norman Sign Company 2200 Research Park Blvd. Norman, OK 73069 Posts: 1428 | From: 2200 Research Park Blvd. | Registered: Sep 2001
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I think you represent a good product and company so I'm not picking on you, but 3M never signs on to a company where they have no controll. If you were the President of 3M I bet you would also realize that liability. They just don't want any part of it.
You know they are big, as in huge, with capitol. If they wanted to they could drive the competition crazy. No fear it's just pocket change to them.
I'll be looking for Avery, Callon, Orical flyers suggesting Rapid Tac.
-------------------- Joe Crumley Norman Sign Company 2200 Research Park Blvd. Norman, OK 73069 Posts: 1428 | From: 2200 Research Park Blvd. | Registered: Sep 2001
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posted
While I think RT is a good product...I must say I've been doing wet apps with my own home brew for over 20 years and have NEVER...as in NEVER-EVER...suffered a failure.
And who in their right mind would do a wet app in sub zero temperatures anyway?
If the install cannot be executed in a heated shop/garage/etc....then a dry app and a heat gun are the way to go in my opinion.
I too am in the camp of buying/ using what fits your needs....whether it's RT, your own home brew, or someone else's stuff.
I happen to use Rapid Remover because it works and fit's my needs...not because someone is twisting my arm to "support a merchant."
If a person has a need for a particular product, and discovers a merchant has it...and it's competitively priced....then it makes sense.
But to be guilt tripped, scolded, peer pressured, or in some other fashioned coerced into using it just seems...well, kinda like a breech on a person's freedom of choice.
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
I too am not pressured into buying or using absolutely anything just because another person says its good, I will however give those ideas a test or experiment if that word still has some meaning. I over-see and work out of a full service shop which specializes in doing things correctly the first time and our trained staff does vinyl both wet and dry but yet we stock Rapid-Tac instead of making our own brew just because we know it works without problems. Geez, I've seen Budweiser beer trucks as well as Pepsi and Coke done dry in other places so full of bubbles and wrinkles that I just smiled as to say ' what were you thinking ' and these have all been done by professionals, just ask any distributor.
As far as the Rapid-Tac company itself, the company definately makes products that we at this shop cannot do without such as Rapid Remover and of course our lifesaver Rapid-Prep and all this after years of using petroleum based cleaners, we have found these products to work much better.
Of course no one can please everyone and there will always be non believers but then again they'll always be wrinkles and bubbles as long as they'll be vinyl
-------------------- HotLines Joey Madden - pinstriping since 1952 'Perfection, its what I look for and what I live for'
posted
Hey Todd and Joe, Easy now, I don't think anyone is demanding you do or use anything, I think they're point was established.
You guys can (with everyones best wishes) use whatever you prefer, and it won't bother me or anyone else,I'm sure more people would like to talk to you guys about your abilities to "apply vinyl for 20 years without one failure", now thats a GRAND acheivement in my history of 40 years experiance !!
Roger
-------------------- Roger Bailey Rapid Tac Incorporated 186 Combs Dr. Merlin Oregon 97532 Posts: 3020 | From: Merlin Oregon | Registered: Dec 1998
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quote:you question the sensibility of wet application in temperatures lower then the manufacturers stated limits (thats usually no less then 45degreesF.). We would all be in trouble if we had to follow those guidelines
Funny how other people's testing and suggested guidelines don't matter?!
Believe it or not...there was life before Rapid Tac...hehehe
Wet apps are not that complex... shucks, imagine a life where Ford motor company discounted the validity of every other auto manufacturer?! "it's not a real car unless it's a Ford." That would be preposterous.
There are many ways of achieving successful results in almost any undertaking....and the not-so-subtle questioning of the truthfulness of my claim to 20+ years of successful wet apps without your product as a *grand* achievement is kinda disappointing.
But I know how this game works...I've seen this play out many times on this board and others...
The fact is, your product is one of many viable alternatives and I can totally understand anyone who likes to purchase it pre-mixed, and hassle free.
As for me? I've been fully satisfied with the original wet app solution.
I do highly recommend your Rapid Remover though.
Edit: I almost forgot! Wanted to wish everyone a very productive, and successful day - with whatever materials work well for you.
posted
What gets me is how you guys want to argue with a paid merchant on this site. He has a tried and proven product and he pays to advertise it here. If this kind of attitude continues, merchants will wonder if its worth it to be an advertiser here.
-------------------- Maker of fine signs and other creative stuff. Located at 109 N. Cumberland ave. Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-837-0242 Posts: 4172 | From: Ages-Brookside, Ky. Up the Holler... | Registered: Jul 1999
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posted
Maybe if more merchants "popped in" here...there would be a lot less misinformation!
Stop and look back at how many times bad advice was given in some posts!
When a merchant posts and answer, you can be pretty sure it is the correct info, with maybe a little advertising added.
The problem is that many merchants have to be dragged in here kicking and screaming ...because there are some here who take great delight in trying to show how much smarter they are than the merchants! I would much prefer to have a merchant answering on every other post, than some of the inaccurate stuff people add in.
This thread about Rapid 'stuff' is a good example! maybe Windex, Shaklee, basic H, or soap and water work most of the time. OK use it if you want to... but quit knocking a proven product that most of us would prefer to use!
I used to use the water, detergent and alchol stuff until I discovered Rapid Tac. To me it is worth the few cents per job not to have to worry about a failure! Just one truck job that comes back to haunt you will wipe out a lifetime worth of what you save with your 'home brew'!
Come on kiddies...if you want the merchants to answer questions on here, quit acting like spoiled brats! we are supposed to be professionals...start acting like it!!!!!!!!!!!
Just my 2¢ worth!
[ June 15, 2005, 02:00 PM: Message edited by: Si Allen ]
-------------------- Si Allen #562 La Mirada, CA. USA
(714) 521-4810
si.allen on Skype
siallen@dslextreme.com
"SignPainters do It with Longer Strokes!"
Never mess with your profile while in a drunken stupor!!!
Brushasaurus on Chat Posts: 8827 | From: La Mirada, CA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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quote:Originally posted by Si Allen: Maybe if more merchants "popped in" here...there would be a lot less misinformation!
Stop and look back at how many times bad advice was given in some posts!
When a merchant posts and answer, you can be pretty sure it is the correct info, with maybe a little advertising added.
The problem is that many merchants have to be dragged in here kicking and screaming ...because there are some here who take great delight in trying to show how much smarter they are than the merchants! I would much prefer to have a merchant answering on every other post, than some of the inaccurate stuff people add in.
This thread about Rapid 'stuff' is a good example! maybe Windex, Shaklee, basic H, or soap and water work most of the time. OK use it if you want to... but quit knocking a proven product that most of us would prefer to use!
I used to use the water, detergent and alchol stuff until I discovered Rapid Tac. To me it is worth the few cents per job not to have to worry about a failure! Just one truck job that comes back to haunt you will wipe out a lifetime worth of what you save with your 'home brew'!
Come on kiddies...if you want the merchants to answer questions on here, quit acting like spoiled brats! we are supposed to be professionals...start acting like it!!!!!!!!!!!
Just my 2¢ worth!
This post should be singled out and made a sticky at the top of this page as a mandantory read,unfortunately those that need it the most will understand it the least.
-------------------- Gavin Chachere Plotter in the garage,New Orleans La.
"Sgts Shugart and Gordon again request permission to rope down to crash site two" Posts: 1223 | From: new orleans.la. | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
My main point Barry, is that being a merchant gives one the right to jump in on any post that they want basically and pump their product. At least thats the way I understand it. I plan on being a merchant here in the very near future, and if you think Roger is bad, wait til you hear from me. Although part of being a merchant is in my eyes helping the site, it also is a way of getting your stuff out there to the professionals that use it. Alot of letterheads use this site for information and help, and merchants would like for them to also use some of their products Roger included. Im not just singling out Roger either, probably more merchants would do a little hawking if they didnt get reamed when they did. If I remember, in the past, Jim Doggett also got rode a little for hawking his product on here. I dont use every merchant on this site, but try to when I am looking for something I need done. Like Si says, if what you are using is working for you, thats cool, keep on a using it, but dont hawk it here when we have people who pay to do so. All my words are said in what I condsider the best interest of this place, and with no animosity towards anyone. I like everybody.
-------------------- Maker of fine signs and other creative stuff. Located at 109 N. Cumberland ave. Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-837-0242 Posts: 4172 | From: Ages-Brookside, Ky. Up the Holler... | Registered: Jul 1999
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posted
well i can claim a 100% wet application success rate, and i've been going for errr........ ummmm......well........ oh ok....... about 1 year ! i'm well aware that i've a long way to go in my planned career choice, learnig a trade as i go means i am, and have to be, open to ALL suggestion, of course some of it may not all be the correct information, but this is where we all live and learn,
i dont think anyone is slamming rogers products, some people are just expressing their preferences, if everyone used the same product, their would be no freedom of choice, would there ?
each to their own, and if their own is better than my own (which it most likely is) then i'd be happy to try it / use it instead of mine,
a prep solution would definitely be of beneift to me, as maybe a cleaning product would be, so i may well use them if i can get hold of the samples, If i think they're making a big difference to my quality of work, then i have no qualms about using them,
nearly all my work to date has been auto related, but i do have a few jobs coming up that are either larger than i've attempted before, or are shop premesis,
i will have questons to ask, i'll ask them on a different thread tho, where I'll invite others opinions, and will use that which is the most feasable to me,
let me be straight bere, i am not worried about spending money on certain products if i need to, but i am on a tight budget, i need to earn it before i can spend it, i've invested my last £5k ($10k US) in this, i owe no-one, not even the bank with the exception of a small, and i mean small, overdraught, and i'm happy to keep it this way, but it does mean i have to watch what i spend my money on, which is why, until i've built it up enought to justify a workshop (other than my large wooden shed i plan to move into soon), that i still have a 6yrd long shop facia in my hallway ! everything i earn, or at least 80% of it, go straight back into more vinyl or things i need there and then, like tea and food !!
but i digress !
lets all play nice and accept the fact that we're all different :-)
ps, my dry application also has a 100% success rate, but, getting it on there right in the first place has been less than succesful !
[ June 15, 2005, 02:59 PM: Message edited by: Hugh Potter ]
posted
Awright fine! I admit it! I just like to argue!
Rapid tac is a great product. If it were snake oil Roger wouldn't have the success he's enjoyed over the years if it weren't.
I also think Roger does a great job promoting all his products. and I mean that. Even though I don't use it, when someone says "app solution", the first thing even I think of is RAPID TAC...and Roger's penchant for marketing coupled with a good product are the principle reasons for that.
At the same time--SI are you actually saying that we shouldn't reccomend something thaqt is not on Steve's approved vendor list? The guy asked "What works for you?" I told him. For me, it ain't Rapid Tac. I'm not going to tailor what I post based on who does and does not sponsor this site.
P.S. thanks John D. for still likin' me
[ June 15, 2005, 03:14 PM: Message edited by: Barry Branscum ]
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