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What is the best method for etching fine details into glass? I have a design I want to use, but the details are pretty small and fine. It looks great coming out of the laser printer, but I'm not sure how to get it into the glass.
My mind wanders. And that's not a good thing, 'cause it's too small to be out there alone. Posts: 3129 | From: Tooele, UT | Registered: Mar 2005
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What size is the glass/design? What are you using for etching...sandblast, air eraser, acid etch? Can't promise I can help with an answer, but happy to help with the question.
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The glass would be about 20" at the longest dimension. The design goes around the border. Masking is what I was specifically thinking about when I posted. I was sure that a plotter couldn't cut that small. An air eraser would probably work fine, but I don't own one...yet. There is a place nearby that does stained glass work and I think I could get the blasting done there. Maybe they have a way to mask as well. Sounds like the photo masking is what I should be exploring.
My mind wanders. And that's not a good thing, 'cause it's too small to be out there alone. Posts: 3129 | From: Tooele, UT | Registered: Mar 2005
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Russ; acid etch is probably the path you should take. Any good craft store should sell the kit.
I have and use an air eraser, it's fun, but it still acts like an airbrush, it knows no borders. You have to mask every little detail, this is helped by sand mask, but still a labor intensive chore.
The acid won't cut as deep as staging(blasting), and you won't get that cool, engraved look, but it will not give you fits over fine detail. Though I must say, I've done some mighty fine detail work w/air eraser. I prefer the air eraser, but as you're just learning, try the acid etch first, you'll get better results faster.
If you go the air eraser route, remember, as in sandblasting, you also have a large variety of compounds to chose from to achieve your effect. It takes a knowledge of these compounds to know which one to use going in. Some are too abrasive for thin glass, some are too fine, it takes some knowledge to pick the right one each time as everything comes into factor when blasting.
After at least a 20 yr. period away from this stuff, I recently got a project that requires some etching, can't wait for that part of the project to come around...some is acid(chrome valve covers-etc), some is sand etched w/air-eraser(windows-glass parts).
-------------------- Frank Magoo, Magoo's-Las Vegas; fmagoo@netzero.com "the only easy day was yesterday" Posts: 2365 | From: Las Vegas, Nv. | Registered: Jun 2003
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It sounds like you would want to use a phot-resist material....which is simple to use if you have screen printed before...same logic of halftone preparation...same exposure equipment can be used...and holds great detail...in fine 35 lpi detail....
you have razist in wa that sells sr 300 film...which rquires washout after exposure and photo abrasive out of minnesota that sells a non washable resist film...just expose...place on the glass and shoot...
you just need a good positive film using vellum or inkjet film positive
go to sandcarver.org for a wealth of information
-------------------- Robert Beverly Arlington, Texas Posts: 1023 | From: Arlington, Texas | Registered: Jan 2001
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I downloaded an image from a library of congress site, and did my own take on it in Illustrator. I liked the idea of all the ivy leaves:
Unfortunately it's not very bold, and the details are tiny. Don, I can't believe you filled up 3 CDs with this type of work. You must be some kind of masochist. Anyway, I started thinking about getting it onto the glass and realized I was in trouble. I've done a few things in the past with plotter-cut masks, but the details were much larger.
Frank, thanks for the info about acid etching and the air eraser. I used to have one from Badger, and it couldn't go 30 seconds without clogging up. It's certainly possible that I was using it wrong. Needless to say I didn't do much with it. Is the Paasche the one to get?
Thanks for the additional info about the photo resist masking Robert. It looks like the supplies aren't cheap. I may have to use a different design until I can get the right equipment. I'll ask around to see if someone in my area is doing this type of work and could provide the service.
I was looking at blasting equipment for glass the other day. Has anyone here used the type that has a blaster and a vacuum integrated into the same nozzle? Pros? Cons? Thanks.
My mind wanders. And that's not a good thing, 'cause it's too small to be out there alone. Posts: 3129 | From: Tooele, UT | Registered: Mar 2005
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There are some great glass carvers in Oregon and Washington that I can get you some help from...and a film compilation will be out in the next few weeks from a seminar I hosted a couple of months ago that covered the entire event. WE had both rayzist, Photo Abrasives, and Hartco materials, showing how they were all used...a very cool time!...then we through in coloring, gilding and abalone inlay....
If you still decide you would like to pursue it, I will see about getting you a copy.
As for the blaster/vaccum combo unit, it is good if your just etching...but I would not touch it for intro work...you want to see what your doing...and there are some very inexpensive booths that you can build yourself....I showed a carver how to build an entire setup less the compressor and silicon carbide for less than 150.00....
so...good luck with it.
-------------------- Robert Beverly Arlington, Texas Posts: 1023 | From: Arlington, Texas | Registered: Jan 2001
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I've done the acid etching... goes really easy. Make sure you time it - go too long instead of not long enough.
On the stuff with alot of details, biggest problem is weeding it. Make sure you squeegy it well, then don't squish the brush into the pattern so hard that anything moves... lightly dab the etching gunk on, but thick.
I did one of the old cars in Vector Art, Vol 4 (I believe it was the '57 Crown Vic) on a mirror... WOW was THAT detailed!!
Has anyone tried that stuff on plastic? Toby won a plastic travel cup and I would like to add the details of the win to it.
-------------------- Dana Ferry St Cloud, MN Posts: 1556 | From: St Cloud, MN | Registered: May 1999
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Being a man of few natural talents here is a trick I use when carving fine detail in glass or stone or tile using my Foredom and cheap needle point diamond tips (20 for $10 at cheap tool suppliers). I print the image on tracing paper then shoot the back with spray tack (used for printing tee shirts) then apply to the substrate with a brayer. Now all I have to do is follow the lines with the Foredom cutting through the paper then remove the pattern with a blade and mineral spirts. For touch up I use a new needle point diamond tip in a old mechanical (1950's) pencil and scrape away. You can also buy special film w/ adhesive and printable with bubble-jet pinters from various companies which I never use since I am old school. "Use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without!" Using this technique I have carved many a gun cabinet's door glass from Washington to Montana to Colorado to these here Flatlands finding little difficulty in rendering hair on a bear or the veining in the feather of an eagle. I tried the acid etching for a time but it wasn't "hands on" enough for me and lacked the detail I demand. Regarding sand blasting I use shelf liner vinyl because it is what I had when I tried it first. For grit here is a tip from a neophyte: Go to a railroad yard and look beside the tracks for piles of sand, especially in winter. This sand is used by the engines to gain traction and comes from dump tubes above the rail. Believe me when I say that after this sand is crushed by 200,000 tons of train it can't get any finer and since it's washed and graded by the railroads before use it's clean. I continually recycle it too. I know you can buy grit but I never do. As soon as I can I'll post pics of some examples.
-------------------- . Posts: 33 | From: Flint Hills of Kansas | Registered: May 2005
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I use the Photobrasive system. With it you can etch the width of a human hair. I knew I would be doing a lot of etching for a trophy company. The entire system was paid for with profits in the first 6 months. If you don't want to invest in the whole system, you can expose the photo resist with sunlight. Check with Photobrasive for a sample pack of Rapid Mask. It does not require any washout.
This photo does not show the detail very well but this sign has a glass insert in it with a picture of the artist etched in the glass.
-------------------- Dave Sherby "Sandman" SherWood Sign & Graphic Design Crystal Falls, MI 49920 906-875-6201 sherwoodsign@sbcglobal.net Posts: 5396 | From: Crystal Falls, MI USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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What about laser engraving? I would think that would work.
-------------------- Steve Eisenreich Dezine Signs PO BOX 6052 Stn Forces Cold Lake, Alberta T9M 2C5 Posts: 774 | From: Cold Lake | Registered: Mar 2000
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I met with the guys from PhotoBrasive systems this past weekend at the Columbus show. Very cool stuff and can definitely handle the smallest detail. Prices were reasonable too.
I already have a nice cabinet and only wanted the consumables and exposure unit ($349).
I don't have their materials yet, but maybe Dave Sherby coould help you on this project?
Here's their contact info;
Craig Kubasta PhotoBrasive Systems Technical Sales Specialist 1-800-643-1037
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Anyway, I started thinking about getting it onto the glass and realized I was in trouble. I've done a few things in the past with plotter-cut masks, but the details were much larger.
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