Hey there, I am working on this with my graphics guy for a client. The client really likes it, but I am not sold. Any comments suggestions or what have you would be greatly appreciated. The client really wants the window in the layout, so it has to stay and we are constrained to a size of 28 wide and 40 tall. The client has already approved this but it is going in a great location in Ottawa, so I want to ensure that it is a real eye catcher for me to point future clients to. My thoughts on this as far as finishing goes was to guild the Graemar portion and hand paint all but the graphic wich I would edge print. I was also just recenetly considering applying the graphic to a raised panel..? So fire away all is appreciated. Thanks Dale
posted
I think the overall placement of the elements is good, but the composition looks crowded. GRAEMAR would read better if the tracking wasn't so tight. The close kerning between the E and the M is especially problematic. Vertically each of the elements in the sign seems to need a bit more breathing room. Even with the white outline, the black lettering of Carpenters & Joiners Inc. is too understated against the dark maroon background. The top profile of the sign doesn't seem to complement the curve of GRAEMAR very well.
I assume that the sketch of the window is for placement only at this point.
My mind wanders. And that's not a good thing, 'cause it's too small to be out there alone. Posts: 3129 | From: Tooele, UT | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
Dale, I think you need a different alphabet for GRAEMAR, something not so cookie-cutter. It is HUGE too! I would paint the window graphic. I think the whole thing needs a bit of negative space. And I also think the black sub copy does not have enuff contrast. Here is a ruff idea. Love....Jill (still not a Corel Queen & am still learning distortion)
Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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posted
Unfortunatley the window graphic is his existing icon, so what see is what you get. I do agree with the negative space issues and that is exactly what was bugging me I just could not put my finger on it. Back to the drawing board. Thanks Dale
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Hiya Dale, It looks like you're making the text fit the shape. It should be just the opposite. The shape is built around the text. Also, I think more along the way of an old pub sign is what you have in mind. Here's a down & dirty design I came up with...
Havin' fun,
Checkers
-------------------- a.k.a. Brian Born www.CheckersCustom.com Harrisburg, Pa Work Smart, Play Hard Posts: 3775 | From: Harrisburg, Pa. U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Hey Dale - I'd like to see the Graemar shrunk about 20%, and an incised gilded border about an inch in from the outside edge. If you are tied to the window graphic I think you need to rethink the font, because it is making the window graphic look a bit shabby (I don't mind the graphic BTW). I wonder if something looser and "sketchier" wouldn't help, or something with a bit of a celtic feel to it. The smooth curves and angular lines of the font you used are just too different a style.
[ April 07, 2005, 06:22 PM: Message edited by: Kelly Thorson ]
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5496 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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posted
The window graphic in its present sharpie scribble form is a mistake in my opinion. Loose sketches can be charming. This sketch has no charm because it's so poorly drawn. I can see a loose woodcut working much better.
I really like the direction that Checkers took it.
My mind wanders. And that's not a good thing, 'cause it's too small to be out there alone. Posts: 3129 | From: Tooele, UT | Registered: Mar 2005
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You guys are on tonight!!! This is exactly what I was hoping for. Checkers that is an outstanging job and it has offered Burt (my graphics guru)and myself lots of material to discuss. This is, as many of you know,a new venture for me and this angle of graphic design is somewhat new for Burt as well. I should clarify though, Burt has some amazing work around Ottawa, and through out Canada. He truly is a genius so I am trying to incorporate his talent into some signage designs. I have just recently aquired Dan Antonelli's two books on logo design for small business and have been busy studing them as well as Gary Anderson's "More Signs Graphics & Stuff". So back to studying and thanks too all who have responded. As an aside, I must say that Burt would have nailed this if I had provided him all the information and relayed to him what I was truly looking for. So I learned a valuable lesson through out this. Thanks again. Dale
posted
Dale, rather than use the ampersand (&), take a look at Mark's winning Sign of the Month entry and the way he put 'and' between two lines of text: there's a lot of scope available with that idea.
-------------------- "Stewey" on chat
"...there are no limits when you aim for perfection..." Jonathan Livingston Seagull Posts: 7014 | From: Highgrove via Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia | Registered: Dec 2002
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Vertical formats offer a whole different slew of design issues. The stacking of copy being one. Long names, a graphic, etc. all have to treated a bit different that a horizontal format.
The main copy in vertical formats can be tricky. I like to bend things around a bit because it makes better use of space. I try to avoid using serifed letterstyles in a vertical format because space is a premium. Slanting the copy up adds a bit of movement and seems to take away some of the squished feeling.
The arc on your main copy added some pizzazz but you have to be aware of what the beginning ang ending letter shapes are. The "G" and the "R" have opposite negative spaces and can create awkward spaces. That is why I chose the letterstyle I did.
In your copy, you did something that I try hard to avoid in that you put your ampersand on a separate line. This can create an awkward negative space. In my version, tucking the ampersand up behind the copy and making it fill the void, it eliminated the negative space issue.
Making your sub-copy in black and the main copy gold with a white outline creates visual confusion because the white outline is just screaming "look at me!". The black copy is too dark for the background. It just blends in and white outline makes it look weak.
The ornaments weren't really needed and, in my opinion, fight with the graphic. The graphic is a bit rough but it does have a sort of charm that I like.
The shape of the panel doesn't do a whole lot for the overall look. It looks kind of forced. Brian's panel shape looks nice and the placement of the graphic where it is allows the two elements to compliment each other.
[ April 08, 2005, 06:38 AM: Message edited by: Bruce Bowers ]
-------------------- Bruce Bowers
DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter Posts: 6451 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
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posted
I think that sign would really come to life if -instead of being a flat graphic - you could find a way to "interperet" the window sketch in 3D...carved from barnboard or something.
Just a thought. Don't know how "do-able" it would be.
-------------------- Jon Aston MARKETING PARTNERS "Strategy, Marketing and Business Development" Tel 705-719-9209 Posts: 1724 | From: Barrie, ON, CANADA | Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
What do oyou think of this, we still need to add some scrolls and facy up the outside of the panel, but what do you think of the use of negative space and the copy and graphic mix.
quote: Unfortunatley the window graphic is his existing icon, so what see is what you get.
Dale, Just to play Devil's Advocate on this one...I had a similar problem with the golf course I work for this summer. They bought another course that had this cheesy horse logo to it - it looked like a stuffed kid's hobby horse. I talked them into hiring one of our Letterheads to redo the logo but they kept insisting that the horse had to stay. Once our super-designer (our very own Mark Yearwood!) presented them with something of a similar flavor but dramatically better - they LOVED it and went ahead and changed it.
The problem was, they couldn't imagine anything different than what they already had and Mark showed them an option that worked great. Just a thought.
-------------------- Kimberly Zanetti Purcell www.amethystProductivity.com Folsom, CA email: Kimberly@AmethystProductivity.com
“Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up.” AA Milne Posts: 3722 | From: Folsom, CA | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
Using that loose graphic, I think this one needs a casual-looking script for the name and a simple sans serif for the secondary copy. Love....jill
Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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