posted
We all know the drill. There are many out there that say, "do the job..don't give me a price...just do it" and it is a $5000 job where as others say, "WOW, you are going to charge me $20 for this???? You are too high!" Some jobs I quote well on. Others, for where I am at, I can't seem to reach the right figure. Sandwich boards espescially but, lately.....vehicle lettering. I LOVE VEHICLE LETTERING. My thought is to include in my ads something like.....WILL MEET OR BEAT COMPETITOR PRICING. The only difference is that I can't in ALL cases. But, I am getting tired of quoting and having all my efforts go up in smoke. I want more percentage. If I can get my competitors to quote and have my prospective customers fax me their quote to beat then, (at least) I should have a better in sight of how high (in some cases) and how low (in some cases) I really am. Perhaps, I should say, "WILL MEET OR BEAT COMPETITOR PRICING (on Vehicle Lettering & Sandwich Boards). Often times, I am to high and often enough, I am also low. This "will meet or beat" approach could be beneficial, especially if I am $400 cheaper for a vehicle graphic. BOOM, I haven't quoted for 1 second and my competitors QUOTE TO THE CUSTOMER is coming through my fax as we speak!!!! Now I can nudge my price up $300 and still be way lower than the company doing the quote. It wouldn't be this way for all cases but....
What is your take on this approach??? If I can't meet or beat in ALL CASES then, how should I word it???
posted
Corey, I know how you feel; we deal with the same thing and there have been times we have been tempted to do the same thing - but that will come back to bite you in the butt. There are more important things to your customers than saving a couple of dollars. Make SURE you give them the best service and never drop the ball on them. Give them better quality designs and make them feel good about doing business with you. Thank them for their business. Maybe your marketing strategy needs to be looked at. I'd suggest sitting down, when you have a couple of hours, and writing an action plan. Write down ways you can get more customers, sell more signs and sell more expensive signs to your existing customers and everything you can think of to "win". You don't have to lower yourself to beating the prices of the competition; God knows it's barely worth the trouble in this business anymore. Don't be a part of the problem; find out the real solution and work it; don't go for the bandaid.
-------------------- Ricky Jackson Signs Now 614 Russell Parkway Warner Robins, GA (478) 923-7722 signpimp50@hotmail.com
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Sir Issac Newton Posts: 3528 | From: Warner Robins, GA | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
Hey Ricky, I wouldn't necessarily be "lowereing" my price. I have a boatload of work on the go right now but, in the last week, have had 3 clients tell me I was too high. 1 of those I have looked back over my quote and cannot believe that I wasn't close enough for at least a call back to see if I could lower it a little. But on the other end of the spectrum, I have alot of clients say, "wow you are cheap" (I get about 65%- 75% of my jobs I quote). If I were to find out WHEN I am LOW and WHEN I am HIGH, I will FINE TUNE my quotations in no time...or will I???
posted
If you get 65 to 75% of the bids you put out you've nothing to complain about.
Forget about competing with your peers and get on with perfecting your work to the point people wouldn't consider anyone but you.
Bidding isn't fun but it is an important part of the business.
What ever you do don't "meet or beat" anyone and never lower your prices.( There's people out there that do it for nothing just to be able to say they did it).
I takes time but a "slow build" is better than a "fast rise" when it comes to long haul competition.
Just think if you bid 300 percent more than you are now you'd be getting 200 percent more work than you're doing now. Of course you'd have to do the work at nite...but hey!
-------------------- "Werks fer me...it'll werk fer you"
posted
Thanks Monty, I am just in the mode right now that I want more $500 - $2500 jobs and less $100 - $300 jobs. 65-75% are not all $500 - $2500. As Airdrie (my city) is rapidly growing (on and off, the fastest growing city in Canada)... people are calling me that are TOTALLY NEW to the area. They know NOT of my professionalism and they are often looking for the lowest price. I DO NOT LOWBALL but, I want to know how much I lost the job by. Once I find out that I lost the job, it is difficult or impossible to find out by how much without ****ing the LOST CUSTOMER off. I should just humbly say thank you (but, then I still don't know how much I lost it by). If I find out that I lost out on a $2200 by $135, I may consider "sharpening my pencil" because $2000 is still $2000 and I am still NOT LOWBALLING. I coulod still quote but, also accept my competitors fax...example: I quote $2000 for some really cool vehicle graphics and lettering and (before I giv the price to my customer) I get a fax from my competitor (my customer faxes me) that says they are charging $1874.45..........I WILL MEET or beat their price. The customer is happy because I went the extra mile. NOW SAY, I quoted them $2000 on some cool vehicle graphics and lettering and then got the competitors fax that says they are charging $2634.56........what do you do????? You nudge your price to say...$2400-$2500 and the customer IS NOW IN LOVE WITH YOU.
posted
But Si, You're in La Mirada.I am from Anaheim. I f I were in the big city (Calgary), and up against 267 other sign shops, I would expect that but, I am up against 4 shops. Yes, I know Calgary bleeds into this city too (it is only 10 miutes away) but, not alot, yet. Do you really spend "more than half of your bidding time" on jobs you will never see???
Simiplify or specialize. Create a style and sell your self as the "Best"
even one wants the cheapest but does the cheapest mean the best looking outcome?
I have quote inquires all the time I wait a couple of days to see if they call back wondering where their quote is. This way I know they are interested.
Give it a try.
-------------------- Steve Thomas Greer ABRACADABRA SIGNS & DESIGNS 102 Stanley St. Ayr, Ont. Canada Posts: 602 | From: Ayr, Ontario. Canada | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
Corey, you are setting yourself up for a bidding war with the lowballer. When that happens everyone loses, including the customer because corners get cut and their expectations get unrealistic. It took me a long time to learn that making two hundred dollars on one job is much better than making one hundred dollars on two jobs. Invest your time in learning what your cost is to produce a job, and what you need to charge to make a success of your venture and stick by your guns. Make your motto "Quality at Reasonable Prices", explain to your clients that you have no control over what others charge, that you strive to produce a good product and are not willing to comprimise on lower quality materials and start to build a reputation on those premises. The only time I try to break this rule is when a special project comes along that I want to have out there as advertising, or if it is for a special client that I feel deserves it or needs it. Well, I'd like to think that anyway, old habits die hard, but I'm working on it. I've found that most jobs can be upsold, a fact that suprises me in our economic climate. I've also found that by very subtly suggesting to a client that perhaps they can't afford my services really opens up their pockets. "I don't know if your budget can handle this, but I think ....." or "Well, if your looking for something really cheap, I could do it this way, but if you want to get the best value for your money I suggest....."
If you don't take yourself seriously, they certainly won't.
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5499 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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quote: Make your motto "Quality at Reasonable Prices", explain to your clients that you have no control over what others charge, that you strive to produce a good product and are not willing to comprimise on lower quality materials and start to build a reputation on those premises.
You sound like you don't want to be considered the "lowballer" though your strategy sounds exactly that. News travels fast. When those three shops hear that you've agreed to "beat their prices" don't you think they'll throw out low prices just to screw with you?
I just don't think you want to go there.
Suelynn
-------------------- "It is never too late to be what you might have been." -George Eliot
Suelynn Sedor Sedor Signs Carnduff, SK Canada Posts: 2863 | From: Carnduff, SK Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Corey, I think what everyone is basically saying is don't cheapen your work by 'competing' with a 'meet or beat' approach.
Fine steak houses or a Mercedes dealership, (I'm sure you can think of many other examples as well) don't ever play that game. They are focused on selling quality to those who are willing to pay for it.
What Si is saying is exactly right. After 15 years years I'm am still culling out 'junk jobs. I began to realize about 5 or 6 years ago that I flat-out don't WANT most of this stuff but I had created a 'monster' and for a long time, I had thought it was great to be so busy. How wrong I was. I was working a lot of hours for the same money I could make by raising prices to get RID of some of it.
I think I had a little mnd-game goin' with myself that people who accepted every quote I did were alos 'accepting me'...I finally got over needing to be so loved though...LOL!! Now I expect customers to accept only my quality of work with monetary appreciation & mutual respect as business people, and if they can't do so, adios...it's no skin off my teeth.
Instead of 'meet or beat'...and don't just take my word for it but prove this to yourself...start steadily RAISING your prices as the months and years go by, and providing quotes for hi-end stuff and you will accomplish a few things:
~You'll cull out time-consuming cheap work. Don't be sad...just wave bye-bye as they walk away. If they walk away mad & grumbling that's their issue. Not yours.
~You'll automatically attract a different clientel (like people who drive the Mercedes for example won't look twice at a Datsun
~You'll get more of the quality custom work for more money even tho' there may be slightly less demand for it...but!!......
~You'll be spending less hours working making the same or MORE money since you won't be swamped with the other time-consuming junk!
~You'll be separating yourself entirely from the competition for the 'junk' and you will begin to get more of the jobs you LOVE at your price.
Hmmmm... Less hours = more time = more custom design = better class of customers = more money . . .
I like it!!
Good luck!!
-------------------- Signs Sweet Home Alabama
oneshot on chat
"Look like a girl, act like a lady, think like a man, work like a dog" Posts: 5758 | From: "Sweet Home" Alabama | Registered: Mar 2003
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Your competitors know what their time & work is worth. If they aren't worth as much as you, that's their problem, not yours.
If you're getting 65% to 75% of your bids, what more do you want? I'd agree with Si, increase prices. Work less, make more $. Do you know anyone who has said on their death bed "I wish I had spent more time at work and less time with my family and friends?"
If you were my competitor and put out the "meet or beat" thing, I guarantee you that I would give every PITA price-shopper that I didn't want to deal with a low price and your phone number.
You said "I want more $500 - $2500 jobs and less $100 - $300 jobs." What difference does it make what the final invoice amt is? Are you getting the same hourly rate and profit margin on the little jobs as the big ones? If not, you need to look at your pricing.
-------------------- Chris Welker Wildfire Signs Indiana, Pa Posts: 4254 | From: Indiana, PA | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
ricky, si got it right...but you do what you feel is right. i dont spend a lot of time on bids....i get a call, i ask for size of sign, i sq ft price it then add..."hi performance vinly will add $$ to price, art work or logos will add to price according to how detailed it is....now if you what any more then this we need to sit down and do a layout....ok? then if they wish to come by and get some thing done, i got em. then i dazzle them with my my brilliance...or baffle em with B.S. and i usually get the job!!!
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
My friends If you get 80% of your bids then you are doing good. If you get 100% then you are way to cheap. Price is never the issue. The marketing is the issue. All of us spent hours to a lifetime getting technical skills that none can match. But, we spent about 10 hours studying how to market these skills. .
I was in the cheapest column at one time. I couldn't beg a phone call. Then in desperation I raised the prices. It was either that or close. Now my prices are among the highest in the area and I get work. I almost never give a quote over the phone. A ball park figure maybe. Doctors don't, Lawyers don't quote. Why should we? Why get into a bidding war over the phone?
When they say well the other guy is $50 bux cheaper I do not fear that. I say good but I can do the work now.
Marketing is the key. Networking with those that do market well is an answer. Sitting in an office with nothing to do is my fault. Not the fault of joe cheapeskate.
By the way. There was one here that did the cheapset thing in town deal. One of his clients came by with his bid at $130 bux to do a 6 x 10 trailer. It was about the 8th person to do this. My bid was $90 bux. I didn't do the work because the other guy did it for who knows how much less. But the other guy is gone now too..
-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5278 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
Thanks for giving my head a shake! I am in total agreement with all of you. Thanks. I AM flippin busy and think I will take all of the advice given here and lighten the load.
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We all know the drill. There are many out there that say, "do the job..don't give me a price...just do it" and it is a $5000 job where as others say, "WOW, you are going to charge me $20 for this???? You are too high!"![[I Don t Know]](graemlins/dunno.gif)
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