posted
Anyone get get results misting Mineral Spirits over 1Shot to get rid of the orange peel look? I'm about to attempt it but should it not look good I just hope I didn't do anything wrong.
posted
Erik, without actually trying it, I think you are asking for trouble. It might---emphasize "might"--work if the panel is laying down flat. I think it more likely that your finish will go dull or flat.
Unless the orange peel is real bad, I wouldn't worry about it.
Edited to ask--how did you apply your finish? Rolled with the dreaded bubble bit from a foam roller--or sprayed maybe too dry?
FWIW.
bill preston
[ March 31, 2005, 08:12 PM: Message edited by: Bill Preston ]
-------------------- Bill Preston Fly Creek, N.Y. USA Posts: 943 | From: Fly Creek, N.Y. USA | Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
Erik! Step away from the sign! Don't do it buddy. (I've never been able to get rid of orange peel) Tell 'em it's that "custom" look. Love....Jill
Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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posted
if its not perfectly flat and level youre screwed...and it also depends on what stage of drying your in....if its dry already its gonna do just about nothing,do it when its too fresh and you can make a rough textured surface,you have to get the misting pretty uniform all over the panel without using too much. Like bill said unless it looks so bad its pathetic,use it to stress to the customer the minimal "roll marks" and the fact that its "hand done" and not 'computer perfect' or something like that.
-------------------- Gavin Chachere Plotter in the garage,New Orleans La.
"Sgts Shugart and Gordon again request permission to rope down to crash site two" Posts: 1223 | From: new orleans.la. | Registered: Mar 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Gavin Chachere: if its not perfectly flat and level youre screwed...
NOOOOOOOOOOoooooo!!!! I just did it on a beveled letter to try out the 1Shot Brass Metallic, along with some other flat cut out letters. I can see some running along the bevel on the one letter, but it seems to look nice on the FCO letters. Anybody get perfect dispertions of the metallic flakes? I get some dark spots. Maybe I'm not mixing good enough. 1st time using metallic
The best thing to do is wait for the panel to completely dry/cure, then sand well and re-roll.
If your'e gonna re-spray, careful not to thin the paint too much or you could possibley get wrinkling . . .there's another reson to be sure it's entirely cured.
A few days in the sunshine could do it.
If desparate, take it to a body shop and get it baked, or set bake-lights on it.
OK just re-read and realized in your second explaination it's not a panel back-ground but actual cut-out letters??
You can still do the same thing I described above. It's just that with all the mineral spirits you are 'changing' the painted surface drastically in a very un-uniform way which is cause for unpredictable 'spots' of un-uniform finish ... lol
(There is a cool marbelized affect you can get by spraying solvent on wet oneshot - the only experience I have with such 'playing'... the problem with it is . . .it's just a 'magnified' orange peel with large fish-eyes -the only way to get rid of them is to keep spraying solvent until the surface turns to 'glass' and all the paint runs off the edges )
At this point, you say it works ok. Your main problem is going to be getting a good cure on it. Kepp experimenting and playing with it, write down all your steps and tell us all about the results you get.
posted
If you run a brush over a freshly rolled surface, you'd be surprised at how well it looks. But then, on the other hand, so what? Not trying to be confrontational, but usually signs are done with high contrast designs, and when it's all finished, background texture is one of the last things to be noticed.
Next time, try adding a little penetrol or linseed oil to your alkyd paint, that should make it lay out smoother and glossier.
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
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Erik, at this point, I'm not real sure what you are having a problem with. Is it a background color that orange peeled? Or letters painted with the metallic brass? And if it is the brass, how was it applied?
Point with the metallics is that for the life of me, I don't know how it could be sprayed. The stuff is tough to get thoroughly mixed under the best of conditions, and straight from the can probably wouldn't go through a spray gun anyway. A new can of metallic is usually too thin to stay put on anything but a level surface. The only way I know to thicken the stuff to get it to stay put, is to leave the lid off for who knows how long---or find an old half used can to begin with. Much easier to thin to desired consistency a too-thick paint, than try to add what? to thicken something too thin to begin with.
Sorry to confuse everybody---I'm confused too---but I have an excuse.
bill preston
-------------------- Bill Preston Fly Creek, N.Y. USA Posts: 943 | From: Fly Creek, N.Y. USA | Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
Well it's been drying pretty good so far, even the beveled letter. I'm just doing some demo's for some lettering and trying out the Brass Metallic, It really should be called Gold after all. I have a little bit of a wierd surface on the ones I misted Mineral Spirits, and propbablt becuase I sprayed to much. I was foam rolling & brushing it , waited five mintues and rolled a second coat to get the little bubbles out. But I've heard that the Mineral Spirits helps to break down the surface tention, same with glassing, so you can get a nice smooth finish. Man I tried Gold leafing today too, man what a pain in the ass this stuff is. It makes me wanna just stick with electric signs, I feel like i'm leaning all over again. But it's fun
posted
Here is the "bubble solution"!!! When using a sponge roller screw a screw into the side of the roller next to the metal shaft and let it stick out. When you roll the roller, it will come around and the screw will make contact with the shaft. This will prevent the roller from "rolling" But, first things first Apply the paint to your panel as you normally would by rolling on the paint. second, after you have laid a good coat down, insert the screw. Now, drag the "roller" over your panel. the screw will stop the rolling action and by dragging the "roller" it will pop the bubbles. Adding linseed oil will slow the drying down and that will help out to. I do this and I am able to get a slick as glass finish.
quote: But I've heard that the Mineral Spirits helps to break down the surface tention...
Mineral spirits is a solvent. What it is really doing is breaking down the very top surface, cutting down the paint. It adds a glossy look when you first get done, but the down side is that you are diluting that surface as well. Over time, that top finish will break down/fade sooner than it normally would.
When spraying One Shot metallic paints, the tendency is to go for coverage. Overworking one area leads to dark spots very easily. I have good luck by reducing the metallics with Martin Senour fast drying reducer and laying down a few VERY light coats about 1/2 hour apart.
Hope this helps... Rapid
-------------------- Ray Rheaume Rapidfire Design 543 Brushwood Road North Haverhill, NH 03774 rapidfiredesign@hotmail.com 603-787-6803
I like my paint shaken, not stirred. Posts: 5648 | From: North Haverhill, New Hampshire | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
I disagree here...and a few others that go back as far as Dupont Dulux paint (automotive enamel)will know of this trick.
When spraying with "Dulux" all the old spray guys would go over the last coat with a gun full of Dulux thinner and it made it layout like you can't believe...mind you it took guts and a lot of practice but It definetly does work.
I still do this with Centari using their thinner...but you have to do it almost immediately to provide good results.
One thing I would suggest here is that you use the One Shot low temp (or even high temp) thinner as opposed to mineral spirits...I think you'd be less likely to promote runs.Just be careful not to "flood" one area and not another.
You know if you don't try some of these "old tricks" you'll never know whether they work or not.Trick is to know where and when to try it...a sample piece would be good.
-------------------- "Werks fer me...it'll werk fer you"
posted
I've sprayed straight solvent over both automotive paints and lettering enamels a number of times. Always on a panel lying flat when using lettering colors. Usually this was on a marbleized panel, like Sheila mentioned. Using VM&P naphtha instead of mineral spirits, or a mix, can increase the evaporation speed. You can get incredible gloss this way. I would definitely try using the One Shot specialty thinners. Is a coat of thinner a fix for orange peel? Experimenting would reveal this, but obviously it's better not to have orange peel to begin with.
Many metallics are hard to brush. The metallic doesn't suspend evenly when it's brushed or roller coated. So it looks streaky. Better to spray. The same is often true with satin finish oils. The silica, or whatever particular additive is used to kill the gloss, suspends and settles much better when sprayed. Try brushing MAP Nuance colors. It looks like crap.
A long time ago I saw motorcycle people put multiple layers of airbrushed colors and effects on tanks and then spray multiple coats of clear, thinning the coats progressively till they were shooting straight thinner. This was in the days of lacquer. The gloss levels were unbelievable.
Experimenting on samples is certainly a painless way to learn, and have fun doing it.
Brad in Kansas City
-------------------- Brad Ferguson See More Signs 7931 Wornall Rd Kansas City, MO 64111 signbrad@yahoo.com 816-739-7316 Posts: 1230 | From: Kansas City, MO, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
....I was taught to add a tiny bit of Fire Red to metallic gold to help with opacity. And you have to stir the metallics frequently even after pouring into your cup. If you don't want to gild something, Erik, try Kemp's Permagild paint. I like it better than any other gold paint. Love....Jill
Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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posted
28 years and just the other day I tried this...
Used a foam roller with Maroon paint. It seemed to be especially bubbly, and even the "drag roller" trick was not its usual fix. I then took a can of air, those duster types for the computer, and "blew out" all the bubbles! Worked like a charm.
Another thing I do if there are too many fisheyes left on a board (along with other miscellaneous particles and bug carcasses) is to take a burnished razor blade to it. I put the blade into a holder and slide it across the entire board at a very slight angle. It slices off all of the offending matter and leaves a very nice surface. Takes just a few moments to do a 2x4 board. For larger boards, I actually sharpen the edge of a kitchen tool (for cutting dough I think) which is about 6" wide steel with a wooden handle. I sharpen it thoroughly, and then burnish the edge with a fine diamond hone and emery cloth. On each tool, make sure to round the corners.
There is an automotive supplement called "Smoothie" fish eye remover that works well in OneShot and other enamels.
-------------------- Gene Golden Gettysburg Signs Gettysburg PA 17325 717-334-0200 genegolden@gettysburgsigns.com
"Art is knowing when to stop." Posts: 1578 | From: Gettysburg, PA | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
I have to say this Gene...Using "Smoothie" or any other fish eye eliminator is like a sentence of death for anyone who wants to continue painting in the same area where it was used initially.
I have a spray booth and I won't even let a can of Armor-All anywhere near there. Smoothie is simply pure silicone and the closest bottle of it that I know of is about 15 miles away at the auto paint supply store. And that is as close as it's getting to anything that I paint!!!
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
posted
Spraying thinners on enamels should be avoided at all cost. Even if you get good results, the finish will haze (gloss reduction, cloudyness or milky appearance) in a shorter period of time. Lets get back to the problem. Was the primer sanded smooth? If the primer has an orange peel finish no amount of enamel will fix this problem, it will only accentuate the primers finish. Prep, prep and more prep. If you can spray thinner, did you spray the enamel? Spraying enamels requires a little patience. Apply the first coat, thinned about 10% with solvent (mineral spirits). There should be enough paint on the panel so the paint almost flows together, but does not cover. This is called a "tack" coat. The second coat gets applied when the first coat is suffieciently tacky, i.e. your finger sticks to the paint but the paint does not stick to your finger. At this point apply a second coat, going for coverage, but dont completely 'flood' the panel, you may still have some 'light' texture on the surface. Let the enamel flow for about 5 minutes, and if not completely smooth spray on light coats (dust coats) of enamel until it just about looks perfect. Wait another 5 minutes and it should have flowed out real smooth. This is not as easy to achieve with a roller. Put on too much paint at once and you'll trap solvent below the paints surface (bubbles), which look worse that orange peel. When rolling start with a 'lint free' roller. Thin enamel about 10 % and lightly go over the panel, and as in spraying, apply only enough to make the panel look almost wet, but not enough to cover. Wait about 5 or 10 minutes until enamel becomes slightly tacky, but still leave paint on your finger. This time roll enamel on (no thinning this coat) and roll out as per normal. Remove excess paint from roller, wait a few minutes and 'lightly' re-roll the entire panel, which should get it as smooth as possible with a roller. Or else as suggested use a clean long haired pure brisstle brush and lightly go over the entire panel follwing the panels horizontal direction (light lines will be less visible this way). The caviet here being shop temperature, humidity and air flow. Another hint here, once painted and getting fairly tacky, place the panel in the upright position, this will lesson the chances of dust and bugs landing on the panel. Note is there is too much enamel on the panel it will tend too sag (run). If this happens, stand panel on its top edge for a few minutes, to get the sag/run to 'reverse' itself, then lay the panel flat again. Another trick to keep dust and bugs off a new panel is to place it painted side down, suspended between two saw horses. This is a little tricky and ussually requires a second pair of hands and some preplanning.
Spraying clears with solvents was primarly done with laquers, which are 'convertable' coatings. Convertable means that the solvent can turn the hardened coating back into a liquid coating.
Automotive coatings are formulated to be reduced significantly, but I would recommend staying within the guidelines set out by the manufacturers. Over 'thinning' only invites problems with the coating's longevity. Automotive paints are generally fine sanded and polished to remove any texture, and achieve that 'wet' look.
-------------------- "Are we having fun yet?" Peter Schuttinga DZines Sign Studio 1617 Millstream rd Victoria BC V9B-6G4 Posts: 521 | From: Victoria BC | Registered: Mar 2002
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