posted
Since I've come to letterville, I have learned a lot of new and BETTER things that are somewhat contrary to how I was taught . . .
Even as I was being taught 15 years ago, there were learning curves then . . .
One such thing for example:
My first boss taught me store brushes in oil.
That was cool with me . . .my dad taught me, via several hard ways, if you have tools, a car anything . . .take CARE OF IT.
In that shop, we used plain ol' motor oil. Then, as the hairs started falling out of our quills and I freaked out. My boss then informed me that we needed to use 'non-detergent' motor oil. We salvaged life from the brushes and spared any new ones.
Later, I discovered Saphire Brush Oil . . .then when that got hard to find, a coupl'a old sign guys told me just use vegetable oil, I hated it . . .I'm back to non-detergent motor oil again . . .
BUT THEN . . .I hear about a 'vibrating brush machine', which makes perfect sense to me, because some of the best cleaning I do to my brushes is by that same kind of action in the solvent!
This is NOT a solicitation for debate about where to find brush oil or HOW you personally do things . . .
This is merely an interesting idea that sometimes, what you think has ALWAYS worked, may be wrong, OR, not even wrong, but some wonderful old sign guy told ya 'Do it this way' and you cleave to it, but improvements have come along since then.... AND so more importantly, can we make the changes??
Here's another example:
I've been spraying mineral spirits through my spray gun and storing parts of it in spirits for years, but just discovered there may be an even better way to keep that gun clean and improve it's performance.
I don't still have to be loyal to a sweet ol' guy who taught me a certain way 10 years ago . . .he taught me how he wanted HIS gun maintained when I borrowed it. It was good enough for him and it was good enough for me, so I continue his way with my own equipment, til' a better way is proven.
And here's one more:
One old guy insists I should hem and make my own banners. But due to my time, and the nature of my banner sales, I KNOW it's more profitable for me to buy them hemmed & grommeted . . .
His way is not wrong, but improvements have come down the pike to meet certain needs and I have to take advantage of them . . .
One guy is steadfast about MDO . . .I rave about aluminum.
Just wondered what all things were you taught that you have let go of? Or are letting go of, in the name of anything:
Progress/technology Time Profit Material Equipment
Disclaimer: This post is not inteneded to generate hard feelings, nor is it meant to be disrespectful to old timers in the biz. It is with the utmost appreciation for the past and it's methods and materials, that we can enjoy improvements to the same in the future.
-------------------- Signs Sweet Home Alabama
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"Look like a girl, act like a lady, think like a man, work like a dog" Posts: 5758 | From: "Sweet Home" Alabama | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
I have learned a ton about paint from this site. I also love the fact that I can post a question about darn near anything here and SOMEBODY knows how to do it.
I will say this though SHeila, you are lucky. Me I grew up very isolated with no real mentor to speak of, certainly not in the sign biz.
Here's a funny one for you: My dad was a body man, and at the time there was no base coat clear coat business, just LACQUER or enamel. He preferred Lacquer, and when I wanted to start airbrushing T-shirts guess what I used....AUTOMOTIVE LACQUER.
Gotta tell ya, it got pretty swimmy by the end of the night at the local fair, didn't hold up for crap with repeat washing, and the thinner ate up the teflon needle bearings in my airbrush....
ah well,ya gotta start somewhere.
I imagine there is a lotta stuff I still do today that is "the wrong way"...but it works.
posted
I use my brushes to keep the dust off my digital printers. "Age and drudgery will always win over youth and inexperience"....yeah, keep on beliving.
-------------------- Mike Duncan Lettercraft Signs Posts: 1328 | From: Centreville, VA | Registered: Oct 2000
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Being willing to try new ways provides a definite business advantage over "this is the way it was always done" mentality. Of course, it is also required that one can recognize when the new way is turning out worse than the old way, too. Sometimes there's a good reason that's the way it was always done.
-------------------- William Bass wjb71@bellsouth.net Northwest Florida Posts: 636 | From: Pensacola, FL | Registered: Aug 2004
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I'm always trying to pick up new tricks, whether it's on the computer or in the fab shop. Lots of new materials have proven better than the old ones, although I did have some problems along the way. I use tranny fluid for my brushes, was told it's less acidic, worked good for years now. What's the new way to clean and store your spray gun?
posted
I was taught that Neatsfoot oil was one of the best brush preservatives. It's worked for me and I subscribe to the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" school of thought. I need convincing otherwise but sometimes change is forced upon you for the better, like breaking a collarbone and getting into the computer age because hand lettering was too painful.
-------------------- Jim Upchurch Artworks Olympia WA Posts: 797 | From: Olympia, WA | Registered: Nov 1998
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The first few years I started , I used to borrow a paint gun from my friends dad (not a sign guy)
He was real particular about his gun bein' clean...he wanted me to do a final cleaning spray of mineral spirits through it, fill the cup about 1/2 full of spirits and remove and store the spray tip in it. . . after I eventually bought my own guns, I've done the same thing . . .
But Z was explaining to me that mineral spirits will also leave residue in your spray gun. he suggested an acetone cleaning would be much better . . .
I'm particluar about keepin' my gun clean too, so I'm willing to try tips like that in the name of preventive maintenance... If it's better than the old way, I'll make it permanent habit.
-------------------- Signs Sweet Home Alabama
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"Look like a girl, act like a lady, think like a man, work like a dog" Posts: 5758 | From: "Sweet Home" Alabama | Registered: Mar 2003
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I used to use motor oil too, had to use non-detergent. But I found that used oil works fine because the detergent has been burned out of it. But now I am using vasoline. If it doesn't hurt the skin, it shouldn't hurt the brushes. But it does get a little stiff sitting there, and hard to clean out, but it does work. if you thin it a little (leaving some thinner in the brush after you clean it thins it too) helps some. But I am willing to try something better, not necessarilly expensive.
posted
First, the oil(s): I've tried different stuff, had the detergent cause hairs to fall out, never want to do that again.Now I use neatsfoot oil (thanks Letterville), I'm real pleased with it, but Si's idea seems good too.
The main idea of this thread is interesting. When I'm at my best, I wish I could examine everything I do to see if there's a better way, and if time will allow, slip in an experiment here and there.
I love that stuff. Get so happy I can lose sleep over it.
On a related note, There's a subject I've been pondering for years, I think I pretty much have the answer, but it could probably use more refinement:
I have observed that there are times when you need to REALLY plan things out, then there are times when it's actually more practical to jump right in and do a job, even if it turns out wrong the first time. What I'm thinking now is that it's all about gathering information. In the one method, you plan and research, get info that way. In the other method you get info by attempting the thing. I used to wonder when you did one over the other, but now I've realised that it's pretty obvious: what's the cost?
If the cost of botching the project/experiment is way up there in time or money, then plan it out. But sometimes, a lot of planning can be costly.
This really is a fascinating subject, I wish I could wear an extra ring or wristband, or tape a note to the truck dash that would remind me to look for different methods, but alas, I qiuckly overlook those reminders. Guess I need a different method of reminding myself!!
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
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There's too many things that I've learned here to list. Some of the good ones are: NO FREE DESIGNS Double sided tape and silicon works great for fast dimensional letter installations Get a deposit before you do any design work i.o.a.f.s. and get paid in full before you let your design leave the shop
Havin' fun,
Checkers
-------------------- a.k.a. Brian Born www.CheckersCustom.com Harrisburg, Pa Work Smart, Play Hard Posts: 3775 | From: Harrisburg, Pa. U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
James . . .heres a 'I hate it when that happens'....
1. Sometime in the year 1989-
You get an unusual particular job. You figure out about 9 wrong ways to accomplish it after personally trying all 9 ways, and then discover on the 10th attempt a great way to do it! You get the job out, feeling good that you still made $3 AND learned SO much. . . . but you don't write it down.
2. 1994- same unusual situation comes up again! You vaguely recall the 'trick' it took so long to figure out. This time though, you only do it wrong 3 or 4 times and then, OH YEH... suddenly you recall that great trick on about the 5th attempt.
Yay.
You vow to write it down, but time is of the esscence and you have to get the job out now . . . but as you rush around, you ponder where you might file the written tip... (when you write it down)
and how you'll remember where it is . . .
~Now it's about 1999... Same off-the-wall job...but, you know exactly what to do!! (after spending only half an hour recalling the 4 wrong things you did) and you're thankful you did'nt have to spend another 1/2 hour searching for the specs you never wrote down anyway . . . but now, the product you used, the one that worked SO well . . . .
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