posted
I’ve been told by two people about some supposedly new product they have seen used but don’t know what its name is. They both claim you just spray this stuff on something that’s oxidized...rinse it off...and tada...nice and shinny.
I had one of the people bring me a trailer that was oxidized pretty bad...when I said something about it he said he had a place that could make it good as new. I was amazed at how nice it was when he brought it back to be lettered...shiny as new!
He said he watched a local hand car washing place do what I said above. I went there today to inquire about the product and either someone is fibbing or the car wash people don’t want to give up there secret...not that I necessary blame them...but they told me they had buffed that trailer.
My customer is a pretty reliable sole and I seen no signs of it having been buffed.
Is anyone aware of such a product?
How do you remove oxidation?
I have a 44’ black enclosed trailer to de-oxidize. Before someone suggests I take it to the fore mentioned car wash...it’s a redo...we have to strip the failed vinyl off first...it’s a goose neck trailer...the owner is over an hour away...I can’t expect him to make several trips to take it there...then bring it back...then come back when it’s done.
Thanks Jeff
[ March 15, 2005, 09:59 PM: Message edited by: Jeff Spradling ]
-------------------- Jeff's Lettering Lisa,Luke,Dara, and Jeff Spradling 5742 Shattuck Rd. Belvidere, Il. 61008 815-544-0167
Surviving another day. Posts: 626 | From: Belvidere, IL USA | Registered: Jul 2000
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posted
Jeff, I have no idea, but your description reminds me of the maguires family of stuff. except the spray part, the maguires stuff I've used has always been a lotion type product. Maybe investigate their line?
-------------------- Chris Welker Wildfire Signs Indiana, Pa Posts: 4254 | From: Indiana, PA | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
The products offered by Maguires are truly remarkable and their price. I demonstrated some on a faded brown speed boat and the boat owner was so impressed he wnet out and bought their products and boasted that I "saved him a paint job". Of course he did'nt pass on any of those savings my way,...but hey, it's all about Karma.
-------------------- Rich Stebbing RichSigns Rohnert Park CA 707-795-5588 Posts: 755 | From: Rohnert Park, CA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Yes you can expect him to pick it up and bring it back and you should,no offense but you're not a body shop or a detail shop and this,on that size trailer can easily dump you in over your head. Oxidation happens when the binder in the paint releases/seperates from the pigment because of UV,chemicals etc or some other circumstance and you get a chalky appearance as a result. There are plenty of those "miracle" oxidation removers out there and honestly they're all crap.....they're temporary fixes at best no matter how good the vehicle looks after its done. Physical buffing removes the old layer and exposes the fresh,and the liquid stuff is often citrus based,ammonia based or something to the like in order to etch into the crapped out layer and open it up or cause it to be abraded off when its wiped. After that both the new & old layers that still remain get "rewet" to various degrees because along with the etch type component they contain various levels or percentages of silicone,fill in solids,rewetting agents,they're called all kinda diff things but thats a non tech explanation......same principle as putting armor all on an old tire...soaks it up,smooths it out and makes it look pretty for a while then it goes back just the way it was before,sometimes looks worse...that could take a year,could take 6months,could take 1 month....all gonna depend on UV exposure,what they wash it with etc....being that its black the heat that it draws in from sunlight alone is going to make something like that crap out probably twice as fast and its going to be prone to spot,blotch,haze over and take on a brownish tone in places if the chemicals are too harsh or the paint is in too bad of shape or just some real cheap crapola on there.......a detail shop may choose to lie to you differently and tell you how often they do this and how sucessfully, but remember they live and die on their repeat business and are rarely at the top of the food chain when it comes to technology in the workplace. A 44ft trailer is nothing to sneeze at and its not gonna be an hour with a rag to bring that thing back....if hes crying about a complete redo on lettering hes definately going to blame you 6 months from now when it looks horrible,and you really dont have any recourse....let him take it somewhere else,you're responsible for the lettering only,not the condition of the paint that was on there before you ever touched it,so dont take on liability that belongs haunting someone else on this. Just my $0.17
-------------------- Gavin Chachere Plotter in the garage,New Orleans La.
"Sgts Shugart and Gordon again request permission to rope down to crash site two" Posts: 1223 | From: new orleans.la. | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
Not trying to start an argument...but boat panels are one thing,3 separate segements 44' long when you dont know how they made it black in the first place or what they did to it in the interim....washing it with etc.
-------------------- Gavin Chachere Plotter in the garage,New Orleans La.
"Sgts Shugart and Gordon again request permission to rope down to crash site two" Posts: 1223 | From: new orleans.la. | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
Kissy & Rich...I checked with a local Maguire’s supplier...nothing spray-on that they knew of.
Brain...duh?...I'm for ever suggesting to people to do a Google search...THANKS! Yes on the first one...I'll be calling them later this morning.
Gavin...I’d a bet you were gonna tell me to have the owner deal with it. Thought I nipped that with the “Before someone suggests...”
First: He is a long time and valued customer. The way I see it if the vinyl wouldn’t have failed (not his fault)...I wouldn’t have had to put him out in terms of having him bring it back and be without it while we redo it.
Second: He keeps his stuff pretty clean but as I would like to think you’re aware...the area around the removed vinyl will obviously be cleaner than the rest...again not his fault.
If there is as it looks like with the Google search...something that will make it somewhat easy to clean the whole trailer I see that as customer service. Something that’s lacking in the business world...mainly with product suppliers! Then he can be responsible for having it polished or waxed as I suggest with all vehicle jobs I do.
Thanks for the help...I think that’s what Letterville is really about...another thanks to Barb and Steve!!!
Jeff
-------------------- Jeff's Lettering Lisa,Luke,Dara, and Jeff Spradling 5742 Shattuck Rd. Belvidere, Il. 61008 815-544-0167
Surviving another day. Posts: 626 | From: Belvidere, IL USA | Registered: Jul 2000
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Z might've said this in there somewhere...I only read part of his comment . . .but sometimes a 'waxy' rubbing/buffing compound they use will fish-eye lettering enamel and has to be 'stripped' off proir to lettering . . .and I wonder of it will adversly affect vinyl too???
-------------------- Signs Sweet Home Alabama
oneshot on chat
"Look like a girl, act like a lady, think like a man, work like a dog" Posts: 5758 | From: "Sweet Home" Alabama | Registered: Mar 2003
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I wondered that too, Shelia. Will stickers stick well to it? Will it fish-eye paint? Just curious. ....remember to use Rapid Prep prior.... love....Jill
Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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posted
There are rubbing/buffing compound that contains no silicones or waxes...if you’re having something buffed be specific about that to whoever does it...most places don’t think about us following them with lettering.
Glazes such as a lot of racers use have to be the worst...I remember back in my painting days...a crew member was so proud of how well he polished the car so it would be ready for me...that was the worst stuff I ever had to try to get off. We had to clean it several times with lacquer thinner...even with fish-eye remover there was still some problem areas.
I’m sure some of the waxes and stuff can have an effect on vinyl...but I don’t think as badly as with paint.
Jeff
-------------------- Jeff's Lettering Lisa,Luke,Dara, and Jeff Spradling 5742 Shattuck Rd. Belvidere, Il. 61008 815-544-0167
Surviving another day. Posts: 626 | From: Belvidere, IL USA | Registered: Jul 2000
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Looks like Brian's search had a good site or 2 for the oxidation. Vinyl needs a clean surface for good stick too.
I remember buying a little paperback book by Big Daddy Ed Roth when I was in my rookie years. He said he found Comet to be the best wax and compound remover out there. He made the comment something like "Cometize it and she'll stick, says I." He went on to say that when clear water runs down in a clean sheet and doesn't bead up -- it's clean and should give a good squeak sound when you rub it with your finger.
I bought into it, BS or not, and I'll tell you the stuff works. I think Bon Ami and Comet and a host of other similar cleaner contain some pumice that helps loosen these contaminents away so that they rinse clean. I have used comet on window lettering too and recently used it to remove stain shadows on trailer prepainted aluminum.
-------------------- Bill Diaz Diaz Sign Art Pontiac IL www.diazsignart.com Posts: 2107 | From: Pontiac, IL | Registered: Dec 2001
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I kinda know how you feel in this situation Jeff. The vinyl fails, though no fault of your own, yet you feel responsible. You end up in a sticky situation at best. Just one more reason why I HATE vinyl. Man , a 44' trailer is gonna be a bitych no matter what you do. The way I look at it, you are taking responsibility for the failure of the vinyl and will be out the time and money to replace it. Vinyl manufacturer warrenties are basically toilet paper. You are gonna eat this one a ton. Why go out of your way even further and take on the responsibility of dealing with the fading siding? Strip the vinyl off, wash the trailer nice and replace the vinyl . If it's oxidized any, it should be no big deal to put the vinyl back in the exact place. If you still feel you have to do more, look into Super Glaze by the Wax Shop. Goes on like water, comes off almost as easy. It's carnuba based and will protect the trailer for a good while. Use it AFTER you put the vinyl on. Oh yea, it's pricy as hell, and you'll still be out a couple of days doing the application, but the trailer will look great.
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
posted
Well,sorry i gave the answer i did,but i gave you the answer you need to hear on this one rather than the one you want to hear,but it sounds kinda like you wanted to everyone to tell you ya its a good idea to try it because your mind is already made up to do it.....hey like i said it may work,but its going to be very temporary.....if i didnt deal with this kinda crap 8hrs/day 5days/wk i might have a diff outlook. This is not a truck door or a boat panel,its 88' of trailer plus a front& back...and this isnt advice from 2nd hand heresay or a 5minute google search,no offense to anyone.....good customer or not,you dont know how they got it black to begin with,what kinda caustic crap they wash it with with a pressure washer,or how its gonna react when start rubbing it with something either abrasive or chemical wise,it wont be something you can roll a little one shot on to fix.... or anything else youre gonna get blamed for later, and you will There is no way in hell i would recommend to any customer i've ever had to make up a mix of comet,windex,meguiars,eye of newt or anything else to wash down something that size,there are far too many unknowns and the end result is way too unreliable.... and youre not gonna get a quick fix with a 'quick wash' if the thing is in that bad of shape. The lettering did not make the paint fail,period....providing him a customer service by redoing the lettering is one thing,but if the sign on a customers building fades some do you repaint the whole building? As far as having silicone,ya alot do but thats a relatively minor part of the problem
-------------------- Gavin Chachere Plotter in the garage,New Orleans La.
"Sgts Shugart and Gordon again request permission to rope down to crash site two" Posts: 1223 | From: new orleans.la. | Registered: Mar 2000
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quote:...There is no way in hell i would recommend to any customer i've ever had to make up a mix of comet,windex,meguiars,eye of newt or anything else to wash down something that size...
posted
I called the guy at Bush Hog...and got the names of some stuff to use and not to use...
They cleaned 5 - 53ft. trailers before I lettered them...each time I went to apply lettering, I was still disatisfied with the black streaks and stuff still left...
On one trailer, they used something that literally wrinkled and took the paint off the back doors, but did not harm the aluminum sided . . .it was 'Castro-Super Clean' (some purple stuff) . . . They only used 'Simple Green' concentrate diluted 50-50 with water for the trailers after that, but it did'nt move the black streaks as well...
I still wiped down areas where I was applying vinyl 'cause I could see 'particles' left from the water running off and I just 'felt' like they had left a chemical residue as well...
He also said he used to be able to get some excellent stuff called 'Truck-Wash 1000' from D&H Chemical co. in Birmingham, Al.
As for telling truckers, body shops, or other individuals to NOT use wax-based rubbing & buffing compounds . . .don't hold your breath . . .likely they will go ahead and use whatever they have on hand, which is usually wax-based, rather than go purchase something especially for you . . .
I always warn them if they wax-buff-wash I'm STILL going to wipe off the area I'm applyin' stuff and if it's waxy I'm going to strip it...this deters most from messing with it before I get to it... Sorry, I don't trust many customers...wonder why THAT is . . .
Sometimes, we want instant, high-powered, residue leaving, cleaners to do what good old fashioned 'elbow-grease' does elbow-grease which has to be applied anyway to remove residues . . .
-------------------- Signs Sweet Home Alabama
oneshot on chat
"Look like a girl, act like a lady, think like a man, work like a dog" Posts: 5758 | From: "Sweet Home" Alabama | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
I really can't accept responsibility for a customer or a friend who lets their vehicle oxidize by lack of care then asks me to letter or pinstripe on it. What a trick bag that offers and worse yet, persons who haven't a clue to what their job consists of asking for help from persons who don't see the similarities between reality and non reality.
Sorry to jump from one situation to another but when a professional like Gavin who BTW owns a paint supply house, gives the correct answer which conflicts one's belief who hasn't a clue to theie job really is, then all we have is lost in a giant quiagmeyer, hehehehehe
-------------------- HotLines Joey Madden - pinstriping since 1952 'Perfection, its what I look for and what I live for'
posted
I had to letter a long trailer a couple of years ago, & got on this board, because of the chalkiness of the trailer from oxidation. I was told to use white vinegar, then rinse it.
WOW! It worked BEAUTIFULLY, & the vinyl stuck real well!!!!
-------------------- The Word in Signs Bobbie Rochow Jamestown, PA 16134
724-927-6471
thewordinsigns@alltel.net Posts: 3485 | From: Jamestown, PA 16134 | Registered: Oct 2002
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posted
as someone who has some AUTO-BODY PAINTING experiance and selling of autobody paint(15 yrs. at NAPA, mostly outside sales)i will tell you same thing gavin said. weather you like it or not and unless you got a place you can repaint the trailer in...i wouldnt go for the "quick fix" crap, it is gona come back and bite you in the butt. how old is this trailer? what was the brand and type of paint applied to it before he bought it? was it a repaint when he got it? maybe and EARL SCHIVE, MAACO, PEACH, ECONO paint job had been done to it. you assume the responsibility of replacing the vinyl ONLY.. if hes your freind and a valued client...he will appreciate you honesty.....by tellin him such....take off the old vinyl, have him take the trailer for a paint job or buff out..his choice...NOT YOUR JOB!!!! luckly i have experiance with automotive paint. got spray guns, and compressor. i sprayed my P-30 step van right in my yard...and it came out nice. but i watched the weather, humidity and wind...it was a perfect weekend when i did paint it. also ive take off some vinyl on older truck doors...and the paint came with it....i was able to repaint the doors of the truck for extra $$$$ because he didnt want to take it to a body shop. when i paint MDO/ALUM sheets...i use car paint...will outlast any 8 year vinyl. but unless you have a place and the know how to repaint a 44' trailer....i would listen to gavin and me and doug.
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I'm not sure where the confusion started...this trailer is the same as thousands of others out there...they are built with 0.025"-0.040" aluminum panels with a factory painted baked-on finish.
The same type of stuff many of us use as a substrate for signs. Unless I’m in my own little acid rain world here...this trailer is doing the same thing all of this factory painted aluminum does after being exposed to the elements for a not so long of time.
I merely asked about a product I had heard about...I’m not looking to give the guy a show car finish or a temporary fix...just to clean the rest of the oxidation type film off that I figured others experience with pre-painted aluminum panels.
Jeff
-------------------- Jeff's Lettering Lisa,Luke,Dara, and Jeff Spradling 5742 Shattuck Rd. Belvidere, Il. 61008 815-544-0167
Surviving another day. Posts: 626 | From: Belvidere, IL USA | Registered: Jul 2000
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posted
I agree with Gavin and George! Years ago I had the same problem. Tried doing what you want to do..............youre headed for a big mess!!!!!
-------------------- Tony Vickio The World Famous Vickio Signs 3364 Rt.329 Watkins Glen, NY 14891 t30v@vickiosigns.com 607-535-6241 http://www.vickiosigns.com Posts: 1063 | From: Watkins Glen, New York | Registered: Sep 2001
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posted
Hi, Unless the customer deals with it via buffing with the special compound wash it with warm water with TSP then rinse then wax it with something.
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