posted
....you might also want to look into Melody Beattie's books. They helped me immensely. love....jill
-------------------- That is like a Mr. Potato Head with all the pieces in the wrong place. -Russ McMullin Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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Even though this is a terribly hard time, with the decision behind you the worst pain is also over.
Use your friends to help you stay strong, especially lean on those that have been through it.
Make as little change in Cody's life as possible in any other direction, so he doesn't have any further disruption.
I am so sorry. It is the end of an era, but the beginning of something better.
I was never as lonely as I was in my marriage, and while it was hard to end it, it saved my life to do so.
If co-dependence with hubby's problems is an issue, nobody's books are better than Melody Beatty. Two specific books were my bibles during my separation and divorce: The Language of Feelings by David Viscott, and Creative Agression, learing about how "nice" guys wreck lives.
I would like you to go back and re-read George Perkins advice, and imagine me underlining every word.
I'm here, call me if you need to get tough, or if you need to cry.
-------------------- Myra A. Grozinger Signs Limited Winston-Salem, NC
signslimited@triad.rr.com Posts: 1244 | From: Winston-Salem, NC USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Hi Donna, no one can comprehend the "pain" of a divorce until they experience it themselves. I am in the group of experiencing it, a long time ago. All I can say is when I look back 21 years later, it was like I was traveling down this road (a road of life), and I suddenly took a turn, on to a new road. You cautiously follow this new road and everything changes. If this new road doesn't suit you, you can always take the next turn. Some people stay on the same road their whole life, others navigate it like Mario Andretti, turning everywhere! I don't know if this rambling makes any sense, haven't had coffee yet. One more thing in your favor! You have a lot of friends here!
[ March 10, 2005, 08:42 AM: Message edited by: Tony Vickio ]
-------------------- Tony Vickio The World Famous Vickio Signs 3364 Rt.329 Watkins Glen, NY 14891 t30v@vickiosigns.com 607-535-6241 http://www.vickiosigns.com Posts: 1063 | From: Watkins Glen, New York | Registered: Sep 2001
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Donna, it is always sad when a couple splits for whatever the reason. I too went through a split a few years ago. After 18 years together I asked my lady what we were doing, she still didn't want to get married even though that is why I quit making Movies and doing cruise ships. I knew the end was close. When she said I don't know, I said after 18yrs and you don't know, I'm out of here. I never looked back and have never been happier. The first 6 months were the hardest but it just got easier after that. Sometimes a break like this enlightens your future. Everything will become clear soon enough. We are all here for you. I realized no-one has the answers, only advice and thoughts. But advice and thoughts from people that have been though what you are starting to experience can help clear the way and clear your mind. Remember, sometimes it is not anyone's fault, it just happens.
-------------------- Michael A Latham Tee's Me Shirt & Sign 16462 Jefferson Davis Highway Colonial Heights Va. 804-835-3299 signdogopie@aol.com Posts: 379 | From: Colonial Heights, Virginia | Registered: Feb 2004
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Careful with the 'enforcing/ reminding visitation' thing. (I know every couple's dynamics are different, but just some ideas)
Yes, the child needs visitation with the father
Yes, the child needs to have as much contact with the non-custodial parent as possible . . .(I've even been willing for this to happen regardeless of financial help from them . . .)
But, not at the risk of that child's emotional well-being and unreasonable demands on your schedule....a lot of problems can occur from trying to 'make' someone do their duty.
With my first husband, I would go out of my way to arrange-remind-etc. for him to spend time with our daughter . . .since he did not want the visitation in his (child-unfreindly) home, I would often 'give him our house' for the visitation and go somewhere else . . . More often than not, he would either not show up at all, or cut the visit way short of the time we had planned and scheduled.
He would never be late...if he was coming. If it was 10-15 minutes after the time he was supposed to be there, we got to where we knew he was'nt coming. It was heart breaking to see her staring out the window wondering if he was going to show up. Then he would be unreachable for up to 2 or 3 months until he finally contacted me again to see her . . .
I finally laid the law: I refused to allow him, or any of his family to tell her when he would visit again. He had to tell me when it would be, and we would be there but she just did'nt know. I had to make it a surprise if Daddy showed up rather than allow the huge emotional devastation if he did'nt.
The harder questions are those from the child..."When is he coming to visit" "Why did he forget my birthday - Christmas" Almost impossible to answer without at least tinge of total hate for that person, and not let it show. Simple answers for little ones: 'He's having a hard time and is very busy...' 'I'm not sure about where he is, but look what you and I are going to do!!'
The tendency is to over-compensate for the missing parent and their inadequacies, but try to just do what you would have normally done if the spouse would have been there . . .a kid does'nt need more material things or activities to substitute for the missing parent, or less discipline . . .just a little more emotional attention, even harder to give because you may be needing the emotional attention too . . .just gotta suck-it up, ya know?
Her father deserted us several times for 3 month periods, the last time when she was 5 . . .during times when his location was known and he was actually living somewhere, the erratic visitaion would happen.
Now at 23, my oldest daughter still mentions the fact that her dad only gave her about 2 birthday presents her whole life, and Christmas gifts mabey 3 or 4....or even SAID Happy Birthday or Merry Christmas. They communicate and talk, but he seldom shows personal interest in her and her husband but displaces himself through his news & writing interests...he's basically, literaly gone 'crazy', is often homeless, now living in his father's garage.
There's never been a whole lot I could do about it, except this one very important thing: Not 'assume' responsibilties for HIS failures and just try to be the best mom I can.
One thing I did that I think might have been helpful to both she and I, when she was older and we had these 'heart to hearts' about life, was to say to her: "I'm sorry that I chose the wrong person to be a husband and a father and now you and I both have suffered the reprocussions of that lousy mistake."
Then I assininely did it again... and am going through it all over again with my 10 year old, but only skipped a few hard lessons about dealing with it from the previous experience...it's never any easier...
Although in all fairness, when not in prison, her Daddy pays child support and their visits though infrequent, are quality & quantity. . . but he almost entirely erases them with these 1 year prison stints . . .where he is again now, possibley 'til December.
~Other advice (hard lessons learned):
Don't introduce your child to every guy you date, or even any guy, until you date that guy enough to know he's the one worthy of a relationship with your child. Part of this I learned by watchin' freinds and also by my own stupidity, but every guy you 'get attatched to', that kid will too and then *poof*... those break-ups are instantaneous and usually progressively easier for you, but are pretty tuff on kids.
Other no-no: Hanging on in a bad second relationship 'hoping' it will get better, ashamed of own repeat mistake-determined to 'make THIS one work'...
Learned fact: It's just as or even more devastating living in hell with a new devil.
New philosophy: There is something MUCH worse than being alone...that is being with the wrong person.
Sorry so long, Donna . . .guess I should just write a book about what NOT to do, since it's obvious I don't know what TO do..lol
-------------------- Signs Sweet Home Alabama
oneshot on chat
"Look like a girl, act like a lady, think like a man, work like a dog" Posts: 5758 | From: "Sweet Home" Alabama | Registered: Mar 2003
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Many couples who love each other are able to repair the relationship. Only you know what you can endure, but, I have many friends who have pulled it together, and even reconciled! That takes alot of love and courage.
All I am saying is that anything worth having is worth working for. Don't give up the ship yet
""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3516 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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Thank you for putting this out- a positive attitude can work wonders, esp. when life gets SO much calmer afterward. Been there, too (and wondered later why I waited so long) love& prayer for you all- Cat
-------------------- Catharine C. Kennedy CCK Graphics 1511 Route 28 Chatham Center, NY 12184 cck1620@taconic.net "Look at me, Look at me, Look at me now! I't's fun to have fun, But you have to know how!" Posts: 2173 | From: downtown Chatham Center, NY | Registered: Feb 2004
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I'm with Rick, Donna. Don't give up the ship yet! Sometimes the time away from the person helps their eyes to open.
And Jill said a while back, about speaking well of his father to him. YES!!! Please do that. I noticed that you did not bad mouth him to us on the board, just a hint of where the trouble may lie. I respect you for that.
My children's father is an alcoholic, & after we broke up, he never bought them Christmas presents. Well, once he was well meaning, & started bank accts. for our 2 boys, only to empty them quickly because he needed the money.
Once, during all this, I said to my boys, "Your dad is an #$%hole!" Then I said quietly, "But you know, I am too." I was always careful not to bad mouth him after that. They can see the way he is, & they know he loves them in his own way, & that is good. I want them to love him. I can see he does not want to be the way he is, & he needs help.
I'll keep you in my prayers.
-------------------- The Word in Signs Bobbie Rochow Jamestown, PA 16134
724-927-6471
thewordinsigns@alltel.net Posts: 3485 | From: Jamestown, PA 16134 | Registered: Oct 2002
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DONNA dont take any advice from women from NEW ENGLAND or PA. my 1st wife was from maine, and the other 2 northwestern PA. HEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHE now i did it huh? HAHAHAHAHAHA LAUGHTER MAKES IT ALL SO MUCH EASIER TO BREATH.....
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Having never been marred I can't give any advice on the divorce deal but agree that a sense of humor will help to get through the tough times. For what it's worth:
MEN - PAY ATTENTION WOMEN - YOU'LL UNDERSTAND PERFECTLY...
1. NAMES
If Laurie, Linda, Elizabeth and Barbara go out for lunch, they will call each other Laurie, Linda, Elizabeth and Barbara.
If Mark, Chris, Eric and Tom go out, they will affectionately refer to each other as Fat Boy, Godzilla, Peanut-Head and Scrappy.
2. EATING OUT
When the bill arrives, Mark, Chris, Eric and Tom will each throw in $20, even though it's only for $32.50. None of them will have anything smaller and none will actually admit they want change back.
When the girls get their bill, out come the pocket calculators.
3. MONEY
A man will pay $2 for a $1 item he needs.
A woman will pay $1 for a $2 item that she doesn't need but it's on sale.
4. BATHROOMS
A man has five items in his bathroom: a toothbrush, shaving cream, razor, a bar of soap, and a towel from the Marriott.
The average number of items in the typical woman's bathroom is 337. A man would not be able to identify most of these items.
5. ARGUMENTS
A woman has the last word in any argument.
Anything a man says after that is the beginning of a new argument.
6. CATS
Women love cats.
Men say they love cats, but when women aren't looking, men kick cats.
7. FUTURE
A woman worries about the future until she gets a husband.
A man never worries about the future until he gets a wife.
8. SUCCESS
A successful man is one who makes more money than his wife can spend.
A successful woman is one who can find such a man.
9. MARRIAGE
A woman marries a man expecting he will change, but he doesn't.
A man marries a woman expecting that she won't change and she does.
10. DRESSING UP
A woman will dress up to go shopping, water the plants, empty the garbage, answer the phone, read a book, and get the mail.
A man will dress up for weddings and funerals.
11. NATURAL
Men wake up as good-looking as they went to bed.
Women somehow deteriorate during the night.
12. OFFSPRING
Ah, children. A woman knows all about her children. She knows about dentist appointments and romances, best friends, favorite foods, secret fears and hopes and dreams.
A man is vaguely aware of some short people living in the house.
13. THOUGHT FOR THE DAY
Any married man should forget his mistakes. There's no use in two people remembering the same thing.
-------------------- Jim Upchurch Artworks Olympia WA Posts: 797 | From: Olympia, WA | Registered: Nov 1998
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What can I say that hasn't been said by our family of Letterheads. I've been down this road twice, once with a marriage and subsequently a common law relationship, both short lived. Sometimes I wonder if fanatically creative people like us can ever co-exist in close relationships with non-artisans.
Trust NOTHING when it comes to the custody of a child. In my case a rock solid legal joint custody agreement and property settlement didn't help... once my son's mother got the craziness out of her system 2 years later she came after full custody and more money!
Thankfully a judge saw through the crap and I ended up with full custody on the eve of his entering kindergarten after a couple of years of legal wrangling. He just turned 19 not that long ago, lives on his own and I couldn't be prouder of him. The stress and expense I endured was worth it and is but a faded memory now.
All the best!
-------------------- Happy Signing...... Marty
M.F. (Marty) Happy Signmaker Since 1974 Happy Ad Sign & Design Regina SK, Canada S4N 5K4 306-789-9567 happyad@sasktel.net www.happyad.ca
Get Happy & Get Noticed! Posts: 773 | From: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada | Registered: Jan 1999
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...to the comments on "saving it" I defer to your (Donna's) stated decision & applaud it, as I agree with whoever (Myra?) said that is one of the hardest parts.
I don't doubt you have "worked" on it, & given it it's chance. Now you can give yourself a fair chance for happiness. Like the "love butterflies, set them free" thing... you don't need to be overly co-dependent to be eligible for a second chance with a first marriage, if it's meant to be.
Being wishy-washy never helps, so more power to you on your decision (or acceptance of his).
I will respectfully disagree with the theory that one whole parent is better then two halves, unless a single person adopts a child... IMO, an absent parent doesn't leave a whole parent, it leaves one half & a hole & IMO it's a hole the custodial parent will never completely be able to fill. (I get it that some ex's aren't worth having around... but even they still leave a emptyness... just ask a kid who experienced that)
posted
On the issue of trying to keep it together, I want to say, Donna knows best what might be possible there.
I have seen a genuine long term reconciliation work, after a 2 year separation, and lots of counselling during that time. Once. Which means the exception solidifies the rule. It is not a likely scenario.
I think we might be overwhelming you Donna, you only have to get through today, and get a good lawyer.
The first lawyer I got, after I talked a little while as I sat in his office, interupted me with a hearty: Oh my goodness, what a s*& of a b%$#% !
I got up, and left to get another lawyer. My bethrothed might have been one of those, but he was my own.
8 years later it took 4 lawyers to get my X into court over child support issues, because he had long left the state, had money, and kept daring me to "get" him.
I took a survey of local friends and business aquaintances of who they thought was the best lawyer, and when I walked into the office of the winner I said: "I understand that you are a barracuda and the meanest SOB in the valley. I hope you will take my case."
He was brilliant, and we won.
-------------------- Myra A. Grozinger Signs Limited Winston-Salem, NC
signslimited@triad.rr.com Posts: 1244 | From: Winston-Salem, NC USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Pay VERY close attention to a lawyers hours and insist right up front for regular and detailed updates. I think they will be less apt to take advantage of you if you declare that you're the boss from the get go.
Did you know that they will invoice for time spend invoicing you? It's amazing how hours add up without any obvious results. And so much of the actual paperwork is done by low paid secretaries and they bill their own full rate for that. Hardly seems fair but when you're in a vulnerable state it's hard to argue that point.
Gosh, when I think about all the hard earned funds I spent on legal fees because of a couple of bad choices in my life, I ?!?!?!
Hope you have an easier time of it!
-------------------- Happy Signing...... Marty
M.F. (Marty) Happy Signmaker Since 1974 Happy Ad Sign & Design Regina SK, Canada S4N 5K4 306-789-9567 happyad@sasktel.net www.happyad.ca
Get Happy & Get Noticed! Posts: 773 | From: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada | Registered: Jan 1999
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Visualize your needs with your heart, your spirit will take care of the rest.
CrazyJack
-------------------- Jack Wills Studio Design Works 1465 E.Hidalgo Circle Nye Beach / Newport, OR Posts: 2914 | From: Rocklin, CA. USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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posted
I was a child under my parents' divorce, and remember it all (aged 6-7), but I don't have any advice for you, Donna, except to be honest with Cody- that was the one gripe I had with my parents (avoiding the truth).
When one door closes, another opens, although you often don't see it at first. You need to always be an optimist.
All the best!
-------------------- "Stewey" on chat
"...there are no limits when you aim for perfection..." Jonathan Livingston Seagull Posts: 7031 | From: Highgrove via Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia | Registered: Dec 2002
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Donna, My parents got a divorce when I was in college so I can't relate what impact divorce would have on a young child. But I can attest to the daily fussing and griping and how stressful that is. I guess you would say we had a severely disfunctional family. Still it was a real letdown to come home that weekend and find that mom had left, even though it had been brewing for years. She just couldn't take it anymore. About two years later, after my dad had trusted Jesus as his Savior, they remarried....each other. I could see that dad was different. I still didn't want anything to do with Religion and tried to avoid his talking about it but I could really see a change in him. A couple of years later, my Mom got saved too and, later, myself. My marriage too was already on shakey ground until then. Please don't let this spark a religious debate. I'm just telling my own experience and that you can look at my family, and what has transpired in my life and see that there's a reality to it. I certainly can't brag about any of it. Some things only prayer can change.
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7417 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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Donna, looks like lots of us here on the board have been there, done that. You are getting a bunch of opinions and stories that you cna think about. Bill and I both lived thru divorces and it only made meeting him that much more sweet. What's that old saying about you have to have the rain to get the flowers to grow? We have HAD bad relationships...this is a dream compared to those! Keep your chin up and move on. I think the most important thing I can tell you about dealing with this with your child is HE is first!! Make sure he feels loved by BOTH his parents and that he does not have to choose one over the other to "support or be on their side". NO good can come from that for ANYONE, especially him! Good luck! We will be thinking of you and if you ever want to talk (or just unload!), you know where we all are at!
-------------------- Jane Diaz Diaz Sign Art 628 W. Lincoln Ave. Pontiac, Il. 61764 815-844-7024 www.diazsignart.com Posts: 4102 | From: Pontiac, IL USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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Since I can't say that I know what you're going through, I will offer the only advice that I know to be true:
Please learn how to forgive Mike for anything he might have done and help your boy to do the same.
Unvorgiveness can be like a poison in your system, sapping the joy out of your life and even affecting your health. If you want to talk more about this, feel free to e-mail me. I will help to the best of my ability.
posted
Donna, this will be hard on everyone. You, your husband, and Cody, but knowing from reading your posts how great of a mother you are, Cody will be fine. There is absolutely nothing like a mothers love for their child. Its too bad you may not be able to work things out, but it may be best in the long run. Rely on your friends for help and solace, and look forward to a new day.
-------------------- Maker of fine signs and other creative stuff. Located at 109 N. Cumberland ave. Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-837-0242 Posts: 4172 | From: Ages-Brookside, Ky. Up the Holler... | Registered: Jul 1999
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My heart goes out to all of you- especially Cody. How is he taking all of this?
My wife has been a teacher for the last 10 years and I have coached over 6, and unfortunately we have seen this all too often. The parents are all wrapped up in the whole scenario and how THEY feel that they forget that the kids are having to grieve over this bizarre loss and change of events, and they just don't know how. Every year there are kids in my wife's class who suddenly start doing poorly in schoolwork, acting out towards other students or even teachers, some even withdraw completely which is a very scary situation. It is always because of the home life.
Please let your teachers know what is going on so they can help them deal with this unfortunate event as best they know how.
I coach a wide range of ages of boys, and the hardest role I have had to come to accept is- I am the only MALE rolemodel in some of these boys lives. This year, my star player, an 11 years old- the only contact that he EVER had with is dad, was at Basketball games. His mom didn't want to be around the dad, so she missed the entire season of watching her son.
Reading some of the other entries, I know I may get blasted, but in my experiences with hundreds of kids- I have NEVER EVER seen a kid (going thru divorce) be as OK as some of the parents THINK they are. Sure, they are resilient as h***, but it is a very painful process. Despite what you tell them, many will still think that it was their fault, that they could have done something to prevent it or end up becoming very cynical about all relationships. Many just want to be reassured that somebody loves them FOREVER, NO MATTER WHAT.
Make sure that Cody has some POSITIVE MALE rolemodels around him- (there are some wackos out there). He will soon be arriving at an age where he needs a positive male influence to learn how to become a (good) man, and will not need you as much. (it's sad, but reality! My wife is having to deal with that with our son.)
Hug him! Love him! and what ever you do, don't ever let him go spend the weekend at Neverland Ranch!
Our prayers are with your family.
-------------------- Michael Clanton Clanton Graphics/ Blackberry 19 Studio 1933 Blackberry Conway AR 72034 501-505-6794 clantongraphics@yahoo.com Posts: 1738 | From: Conway Arkansas | Registered: Oct 2001
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![[Group Hug]](graemlins/grouphug.gif)
remember who loves ya baby.
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Cool]](cool.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
What's that old saying about you have to have the rain to get the flowers to grow? We have HAD bad relationships...this is a dream compared to those! Keep your chin up and move on.
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