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I just now stayed up in the shop for a customer to come for lettering for her truck. It is now 6:45 & I have still not made supper yet for my family, but I knew she was coming, so I stayed up here.
She was very nice, & brought her husband & 2 small girls, ages 4 & 6. The whole time I worked on a layout for her, changing what I had already come up with, colors, font, etc., the girls were dumping an ashtray, digging in my desk, scribbling on my sign magazines, & gouging my desk, scratching it with a paper clip.
They wanted an outline on the name, faded sprayed effects, all total, 3 colors. After we were done, the husband asked how much, & I said, $200. He was visibly upset. Now, I am VERY slow right now, & figured, the guy who referred me to them is a good guy & I need the money, so I actually cut it down to $175, which is RIDICULOUS!!! I mean, the original $200 was too cheap! They want the name outlined with a color fade, plus address, DOT numbers, Owned & Operated by, Not for Hire, PLUS Their names under the windows!!!!! Now, I live in a very small town, & believe me, most people here are tight, but this is too much!!!
He said they would have to talk about it, & they left. I am SICK, I mean, my stomach is sick, & I am shaking all over!
I have not been doing this as long as a lot of you, but my work is good!!! Most of my work is word of mouth, because they say they like my work, & it is different.
So why am I letting this bother me????
I started to shake as soon as I saw his attitude, yes it was an attitude. I am angry, tho I am not sure at who~ the parents who do not control their children, or the parents who are cheap & want things for nothing? Or ME, for knowing I should never have backed down in the first place???
My shop is tiny, up in the top of our "barn". I do not have a place for children to sit. What do all of you do when kids come in the shop & act like this?
-------------------- The Word in Signs Bobbie Rochow Jamestown, PA 16134
724-927-6471
thewordinsigns@alltel.net Posts: 3485 | From: Jamestown, PA 16134 | Registered: Oct 2002
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It's tough dealing with other's misbehaving offspring, and it does put one on the spot. I don't have any suggestion for dealing with that. Haven't had to deal with it very often.
I do think, though, that what we are all seeing is the result in no small measure of about three generations worth of kids raised according to Dr. B. Spock and that miserable child rearing book of his that came out shortly after WW2. Real winner, there. Discipline was not high on the list of his prorities. "Self-expression" and "Encouraging their creative desires" blah blah. Even if it means the destruction of someone else's property.
On the other hand, two small kids can pinch the parents budget pretty tight, so that may be where the "talk it over" angle came in.
On your being upset---who wouldn't be? Frustration factor is well up there, and you just don't know where to aim it.
Not going to comment on the price part.
No suggestions for how to deal with it, but I do have an idea how you must feel.
bill preston
-------------------- Bill Preston Fly Creek, N.Y. USA Posts: 943 | From: Fly Creek, N.Y. USA | Registered: Jan 2000
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This is always a challenge for us too. We have a lounge with community-based stuff available to read along with a bowl full of peppermint candy. Kids usually TRASH our lounge area.
Seems as though parents cannot control their kids these days, and ironically, those clients never end up buying anything.
With regard to the work, what were you proposing? Are you using Edge or painting by hand? Don't beat yourself up over a momentary weakness that impelled you to drop your price. We all do that from time to time, (no matter what the toughies on the board say)
""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3488 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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Tell them that your insurance doesn't cover children in the shop and that they will have to wait in the car or suggest the parents come back at another time. (without the kids).
I use to stress over the possibility of children getting into my paint and messing up their clothes. Anymore, I tell the customer their are many dangerous things in the shop that could hurt their child (ex: utility knifes, electric saws, paint thinners in open containers etc). This puts the ball in their court that they have been warned, and need to watch their kids.
As far as the jerk being angry. It was probably a bullying tactic to get you to back down. I have been intemidated in the past and sometimes still do, but it's best to set a price and stick to it.
Makes me think: if they don't make their children mind, they don't show up at a descent time and they don't like your price, maybe they don't pay their bills either. They don't sound like reputible people to me.
You don't need them, even if it is slow right now. I know it's hard, I've been there.
You are right and they are wrong.
Pam
-------------------- Pam Eddy Niles, MI ple@qtm.net Posts: 460 | From: Michigan | Registered: Dec 2000
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Off the top of my head, I'm not sure what to say about the children. Myself, I'd have to bite my lip to keep from saying the first thing that comes to mind: "A child left to himself brings his mother to shame" (proverbs).
As far as the job goes, maybe you're better off not having it. People that shop at mega-mart, buying mass produced stuff from places where the workers live in grass huts often have no idea what skilled labor in this country costs..
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
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had a kid an hour ago twice grab my $40 custom metallic window blinds... they will crease in a heartbeat if a good bend gets started... I have no desire to taint the entrance to my shop with damage & I spoke up pretty quick both times. No damage was done... but it interfered with my ability to concentrate.
In all honesty Bobbie.. you probably should direct some of your anger at yourself. At least that way something positive can come from it, & there is no question this will happen again & again untill you stop allowing it.
My recent "truck door" post describes a transaction where I offered some design work as an option to straight lettering. I was also able to quote the straight lettering price right on the spot. I assured them I could match their existing lettering & that I would show it to them on paper before doing the job... but that is when I asked for the 50%.
At that point all I was out was the drive up to look at his truck (near my house anyway) & some off-the-top-of-my-head design suggestions that were not even written down... but enough to convince him that I had some good ideas... He told me he would like to see what else I could come up with. I said he could drive to the shop & look at photos of my work, or he could commit another $100 for roughing up some 2nd or 3rd tier design options. (I did leave with a deposit)
[ March 08, 2005, 07:55 PM: Message edited by: Doug Allan ]
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When they come back and they will tell them that your price was incorrect and that is is now going to have to be $300.00
-------------------- Steve Eisenreich Dezine Signs PO BOX 6052 Stn Forces Cold Lake, Alberta T9M 2C5 Posts: 774 | From: Cold Lake | Registered: Mar 2000
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You pinpointed a whole lotta problem areas. I'm not even sure where to begin.
You stayed late when it wasn't in YOUR best interest. You feel somewhat resentful from it.
- You run the show, not your customers. It was your decision and now you know not to do it again if it isn't best for you.
Kids trashed your office.
- If that would happen in my shop, I would speak up immediately. "I'm sorry folks, this isn't a kid friendly area. Could one of you please take them outside?" Better yet, now that you know, have something for kids so they do kid stuff. It doesn't hurt to have a basket of toys for all ages 'in case' or a chalk board in the corner. If these are the type of clients you deal with, (people off work and bring the family as opposed to working with biz people during biz hours) it's best to be prepared.
They didn't take the job right away because of the price. - I always quote first before designing my time away. Did they have an idea it would be in the neighbourhood of $200? The hubby sounded shocked. Estimate first to see if they can afford you. Perhaps have 3 samples of someone else's lettering. Ok, Better and Best. Then you have an idea of what they want before wasting your time on something that may never transpire.
Take all these lessons as a learning curve. "How can I fix that next time?" And implement it right away. You will be thankful for delays like this if they teach you something worthwhile.
quote: What do all of you do when kids come in the shop & act like this?
Give em the exactos to play with!!. Seriously though, I also got tired of uneasy kids. What I ended up doing was painting a black outline of a clown on the back of one of my cupboards. I get my vinyl scraps and just zig zag cuts all over them and then let the kids find bits that sit against the outline and let them peel and stick. The parents have to drag them away. Every so often I just grab a knife and trim the outlines a bit. It ends up looking like a 3d effect especially with lots of different colors overlapping each other.
-------------------- Drane Signs Sunshine Coast Nambour, Qld. dranesigns@bigpond.com Downunder "To err is human, but to really foul things up requires a computer" Posts: 965 | From: Nambour, Qld. Australia | Registered: Nov 1998
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Bobbie, I have a container with stuff in it for just that occasion. A Yo-Yo/ little puzzles/ simple picture books for little people/ even some in Spanish/ just stuff I run across that fits.
Brainy kind of puzzles, more interesting picture books, the day's newspaper for grownup people who want to "watch" or "help" while I might put something on their car/whatever...
I tell parents off the bat, (if I see them not being in control), that I am in charge of their kids' safety while they are here and if anything happens to them I would have to sue. Then I smile broadly. And take over. But only for very short interactions, like settling what needs to be done, and then be ready for a re-scheduled meeting.
Professionalism is critical.
If a job is really important to me, and a kid becomes a problem, I have been known to quickly put 6x 3 piece of butcher paper on the banner board and hand them a box of crayons and markers, and tell them they can't move from the spot, that it's dangerous and forbidden til I am through with my talking to the parent. And that I would keep their picture hanging and try to sell it for them, if they don't want to take it home.
-------------------- Myra A. Grozinger Signs Limited Winston-Salem, NC
signslimited@triad.rr.com Posts: 1244 | From: Winston-Salem, NC USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Bobbie, you are so much like me that I kinda pity you, babycakes.
Bill is right, most parents these days do not discipline their kids, plain and simple. If I see a kid doing something dangerous or inappropriate, in my best fake-nice voice I say "No-No, Honey, please don't do that." It usually shocks both them and the parents into submission. I live along a 5-lane highway and have had parents try to let kids run free in my yard while we dicuss signs.
I know what it's like to be obscenely broke. I have made my own kids wait for meals or burned their dinners while I waited on no-show or time-wasting clients. I know that shaking feeling you are describing all too well. I know how it feels to need a job so badly that you will do almost anything so that you can get grocery money.
Next time, tell them the price up front before you waste your time. $200 was a great price for them. I just now started charging that for a semi. You know what our area is like, price-wise. If they do call back, tell them $225 and hold firm. Love....Jill
-------------------- That is like a Mr. Potato Head with all the pieces in the wrong place. -Russ McMullin Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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Wow, thank you, to ALL!!!! I don't know where to start, except to humbly admit that after I posted this, I went into the house & started to tell my hubby, who blew up on me before I got done telling the whole thing!!! He was angry that I lowered my price right off the bat. But anyway, I, Bobbie, who never swears, well, I said the 'ol "F" word, I was so mad. arrgggghhhh!!! I HATE that! That is not ME! There, you have it, I am all too human, I guess.
But anyway, Rick, I was going to use vinyl, but the layout was very nice & classy looking.
Pam, good point, everything was feeling kind of funny before they got here, & I bet it would have been more trouble doing it after all.
Donna, my husband told me that! He said that when I am up here, it is MY shop, & not to let them intimidate me!
Dave, "give them exactos?" LOL!!! Oh my, that made me laugh! Hey, the clown idea sound good, or even like Myra suggested, getting some toys up here, even tho there isn't much room.
Jill, I like all the above (especially the babycakes). The 'ol "fake-nice" voice! Oh! hehehehehe! That kills me!
You also said: I know what it's like to be obscenely broke. I have made my own kids wait for meals or burned their dinners while I waited on no-show or time-wasting clients. I know that shaking feeling you are describing all too well. I know how it feels to need a job so badly that you will do almost anything so that you can get grocery money.
Thank you, you actually know how I feel, & I appreciate you saying that. Last of all, Jill, My husband told me if they call me back, tell them either that I will not do it, or tell them $250. I was going to tell them the original, $200.
And Doug, you have a very good point there, too. I NEED to get mad at myself, because if I do I WILL learn!
Thank you all!!!!
-------------------- The Word in Signs Bobbie Rochow Jamestown, PA 16134
724-927-6471
thewordinsigns@alltel.net Posts: 3485 | From: Jamestown, PA 16134 | Registered: Oct 2002
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I hate that it is slow like that Bobbie, and I think that is at the core of your anxiety. God knows we have been there before, and it is in the moments when I have been tempted, and fallen to do the price slashing you are feeling forced to right now, that my wife,and partner has stepped in to offer the most valuable thing in the world; PERSPECTIVE.
More than likely, the customers on some level or another felt your flagging confidence, and it influenced them in their reluctance to buy from you.
As to the kiddos, others offered good suggestions, and I don't have anything to add to that, but to the issue of pricing and the sales slump I would say this.
STEP BACK.
TAKE A DEEP BREATH. You have been through this before, and it always picks up.
CHANGE THE WAY YOU TALK. I hear a lot of negative coming from you in just your few words. Bet it's worse in person. Consciously change that. It will be against the grain, but worth it.
DON'T BACK DOWN. The draw to lower rates is nearly irresistible, but you have to. If anything, now is the time to raise your rates. 'cause dangit you're worth it. (Aren't you?)
Assert your confidence, and take stock of your strengths, and when you speak about your work to a prospective customer, don't be shy to tell them WHY you're that best dang show in town! Tell 'em why you are worth every red cent, and if anything, they are priviledged you have found time to shoehorn them in to your busy schedule. (and to the customer, you are ALWAYS busy, no matter what you say here.)
If you decide to stay late, ever, do it from the perspective that you are doing them a huge favor. Make sure they don't forget it.
and finally, don't be afraid to let an IDIOT walk out the door.
posted
I, too, know that shaking in your gut. I just don't recall it much any more, but I did when I read what you wrote. And some of what I am about to touch on will tell you why I can't take not being treated well. Anyone who survives adversity intact, has grit, which will out.
When Mark was little, I worked out of my kitchen and my dining room, and a dirt floor basement accessible only from the outside where I silkscreened on an old workbench and hung the prints to dry with clothespins on laundry lines, all the time hitting my head, it was that low. The windows were broken and the floor flooded when it rained, and I routed redwood signs with rubber boots on, too young and stoopid to know I could be electrocuted. When it rained the backyard also flooded, and I pitched the screens into the water to float, soak and pre-clean.
Survival and food was critical.
One of my worst memories was waiting for a person at 10 pm, who needed a banner done by morning, I did it for 50 bucks to buy coffee and food, and it involved handpainting detailed playing cards onto it. It took all night, and I remember being grateful for the money.
-------------------- Myra A. Grozinger Signs Limited Winston-Salem, NC
signslimited@triad.rr.com Posts: 1244 | From: Winston-Salem, NC USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I probably woulda flipped out on the kid & parents for letting the kids trash my place. But then, I'm not one to mince words, I'm not big on (most) kids and I'm very protective of my shop. I've put a lot of work into it & have only been able to bring myself to hang 3 things in it cause I'm having "issues" putting nails in the walls I worked so hard on. lol.
The idea of stuff for the kids to play with is a good one, but personally I think I would put up a sign that this shop is full of hazardous chemicals and tools. It is a dangerous place for children so please either have them under control or leave them at home.
As for coming down on price, we've all done it at one time or another. I think it was Jane Diaz who has a great way to "guilt" them outta trying to get you to lower price. I apologize to whoever it was if it wasn't Jane, but it was basically "well, we understand that not everyone can afford something like this. perhaps we could look at something simpler (or cheaper, whatever), more in your price range." You'd be surprised how people quit bickering over price when politely being told they're cheap. lol
-------------------- Chris Welker Wildfire Signs Indiana, Pa Posts: 4254 | From: Indiana, PA | Registered: Mar 2001
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Barry, what a sweetheart you are!!! I was laughing while I was reading that! Are you sure you don't KNOW me??? That was very encouraging!!! I think I will print it to remind me when I start to feel like this again!
Myra, that is awesome. You really worked your way hard to where you are, & I repect you so much. Thanks for sharing that with me.
-------------------- The Word in Signs Bobbie Rochow Jamestown, PA 16134
724-927-6471
thewordinsigns@alltel.net Posts: 3485 | From: Jamestown, PA 16134 | Registered: Oct 2002
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I love kids. Got two of em myself. When they go places with me, they dont touch nothing! I expect the same courtesy from my customers. If they come in my shop and start acting up, Id tell em about it, although in a nice way, at first. Also, you might put up a sign like I got in my showroom. "My pit bull is asleep under the counter. He is a very light sleeper and wakes up hungry. Please keep your children close to you. Not responsible for accidents."
-------------------- Maker of fine signs and other creative stuff. Located at 109 N. Cumberland ave. Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-837-0242 Posts: 4172 | From: Ages-Brookside, Ky. Up the Holler... | Registered: Jul 1999
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Yup.. charge em more if they come back. One for putting you off. And the other for wasting your time.
And say this,, "There will be an increase in vinyl price so it will cost me more to get it. Thus the bid is higher.
Lack of appreciation from a customer is cause for charging more.
-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5274 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
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I have a 7 year old daughter, she often goes places with me but under no circumstances would she ever even consider touching something that belonged to someone else. You know why? I raised her not to!!!! If the parents won't discipline their brats, ask them to please take them outside.
-------------------- Kimberly Zanetti Purcell www.amethystProductivity.com Folsom, CA email: Kimberly@AmethystProductivity.com
“Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up.” AA Milne Posts: 3722 | From: Folsom, CA | Registered: Dec 2001
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LOL Glenn . .. that should also be added on the 'shop policies' post!! Priceless!!
It's astounding how people will ignore signs you have posted about these things . . .It's very disheartening when you realize signs are what we do and a lot of times....no one really READS them . . .
Bobbie, another way to look at it . . .I've noticed a pattern with people who have super rowdy kids...if you talk to the parents as if they're your own kids (grandma mode)....they will usually deal with their kids to some degree.....I just come out and state it: "Let's don't let them play over here because there's a lot of things that they can get hurt on and we don't have time to go to the ER now . . "
"We need to focus on your sign while they are gettin' into everything and someone's going to get hurt . . .let's let them wait in the car . . ."
It's ridiculous to have to do . . .but oh well...ya gotta say SOMETHIN'.....
Also noticed...the parents don't seem to mind you Disciplining their kids....to the contrary, they seem to be glad that SOMEBODY is . . . since they can't 'deal' with them . . .
so I just act like they're mine . . . and use my "Mommy Dearest" voice...you know the one where your masking the anger to seem like your still charming. . . you're teeth are just slightly clenched and you are focusing on quietly & evenly stating EXACTLY what they WILL do...While your facial expression looks kind'a monotone, your voice tone says, "Serious reprocussions for disobedience coming soon".
The GOOD news?? Eventually you will be able to peg these people before they even get out of the car, and you can meet them outside with a pad and pen...if you need a sample or somethin' you can say, "I'll get it and be right back"
If someone's gonna HAVE to come in and look at something, you can nail it down right there with a statement like . . ."Well, I GUESS ONE of you can get out and come look at it, but my insurance is not a group plan so I don't allow people in my shop . . ."
Another plus with the house/shop combo is Emily's trampoline, and she had a two story 4x8 'play house sand box (the tornado ate it about a month ago . . .) but most kids just go play over there . . .
-------------------- Signs Sweet Home Alabama
oneshot on chat
"Look like a girl, act like a lady, think like a man, work like a dog" Posts: 5758 | From: "Sweet Home" Alabama | Registered: Mar 2003
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Yes, Kissy it was me that said that. We still use that, especially with the pharmacist or realtor who you KNOW can afford it but is just trying to take advantage of you and get YOU to reduce your price...would they do that for you? We are lucky at our shop because there are usually two of us here. If we have this situation arise, Bill handles the parents and I take the kids into where we store the scrap vinyl and old vinyl cardboard tubes. I save the tubes just for this purpose. I hand them scraps and we "decorate" the tubes. Then I stick a push pin in one end, have then stick their arm in the other end, and use the push pin to shoot rubber bands at the wall. Picture someone using a bow and arrow. We have a blast! They shoot a while, decorate some more, and walk out the door a happy camper with their new toy. (Mom and Dad must provide future rubber bands.)
-------------------- Jane Diaz Diaz Sign Art 628 W. Lincoln Ave. Pontiac, Il. 61764 815-844-7024 www.diazsignart.com Posts: 4102 | From: Pontiac, IL USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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Bobbie, Sounds like you got the same guy I did! I had a guy come in the other day saying that another shop would letter his truck for $175.00. I asked him what he was doing wasting my time then?? We have been VERY VERY slow lately also ... the inbox is full and the out box isn't! (mostly due to it being colder than a witches boob in a brass bra doing push-ups in the snow.) but once the weather breaks we'll both be in full swing! Keep your head up!
-Your neighbor
Ryan
P.S. You can borrow my weiner dog .. he dosen't like kids!!!
[ March 09, 2005, 10:47 AM: Message edited by: Ryan Ursta ]
-------------------- Ryan Ursta Ursta Graphics 116 B North Mercer Avenue Sharpsville Pa. 16150 Call: 724•962•2206 "We make YOU look good"
Known as "Ugraph" on mirc Posts: 558 | From: Sharpsville Pa. USA | Registered: Sep 2000
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A lot of great advice above. If kids don't learn to behave or have respect for other people's property, they will always be a terror to others and suffer much grief themselves. "He that spareth his rod (a good oldfashioned switch) hateth his son: But he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes" Proverbs 13:24
I once had a woman come in with an 8-year-oldish kid while I was laminating an HDU sign and was up to my elbows in epoxy. My hands were literally tied as she let him scurry feverishly from one thing to the next eliciting a weak, half-hearted "leave that alone baby" only when I looked over at him with concerned expression. The last straw came, right after she had finished telling me what she wanted (some little yard sign with her favorite football team on it) when the little monster walks over to a newly finished sandblasted sign (laying on the floor because my shop was so small and there was no place for it) and plants his foot on it so hard it starts to tip up on the other side, and looks right up at mom with a look like:"What you gonna do about it". Right then I blurted out a ridiculously high price . At that point she wasted no time leaving, much to my relief.
Having gotten older and more bold, I just tell 'em. "No sir....don't touch that...that belongs to someone else". Happened just the other day.
If they don't discipline their kids, someone else down the line will have to.
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7404 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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Bobby, this works for me. A kid sized chalk outline on the floor with a few scattered toys around. That and my Rottweiler usually does the job.
Actually, I have a puppy Rat Terrier and kids love it. He loves it too and they keep each other pretty busy. Before that I told them I had many ways their child could get accidently maimed for life in the shop if the kids were prone to wandering. That usually did the trick but there was a few times I was close to calling everything off. One insurance claim against you would make any profit small potatoes.
-------------------- Jim Upchurch Artworks Olympia WA Posts: 797 | From: Olympia, WA | Registered: Nov 1998
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You are so right, Jim, about the insurance claims. My shop is SO small, I have all my thinners & stuff on a low shelf under my table right now. There is too much for them to get into. I think I had the wrong attitude, sitting there, doing the layout, thinking I was doing well, being quiet trying to get it worked out with the commotion going on around me. NEW ATTITUDE!!!! Thank you all!
And Ryan, thank you, too. If we all stick to our guns, then these cheapos will find out that we get paid for what we are gifted to do in the first place. Funny, I told him what I get paid for 2 doors, one color, & he wasn't interested.
I am not ruling out helping the few customers that come here that are good people, & I choose to help, either. I've done that quite often.
-------------------- The Word in Signs Bobbie Rochow Jamestown, PA 16134
724-927-6471
thewordinsigns@alltel.net Posts: 3485 | From: Jamestown, PA 16134 | Registered: Oct 2002
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Thanks for sharing this, I enjoyed reading all the exellent answers. Love Glenn's solution!
I try not to design with a customer standing behind my back. I've done it before, it makes me nervous and I'm more prone to make irrational decisions or say things I don't want to say.
I know the "shaking" feeling. Some customers try to intimidate me and I hate it, but I"m getting better at handlig them, some of this thanks to this board.
The three tier price lists that someone mentioned, is an exellent idea. Pull it out before you start designing.
As for the kids - I don't think it would have been rude of you to speak up. Maybe something like, "Please have the kids wait outside, I have razorblades laying around everywhere".
posted
Glenn, great sign. Bobbie, sorry to hear about your frustrations. Sounds like you were designing and changing things on screen while they were looking over your shoulder, is this correct? I've used to do this also, it's kind of nerve racking, tends to eat up a lot of time, and is not always productive. I've changed it now to the following procedure. Depending on our first conversation over the phone, you can ussually formulate what it is they are after. Set up an appointment for them, and let them know the appointment should take no longer than 10 minutes. Rough out a quick sketch, either by hand or on the computer. When they come for their appointment, show them you idea(s). From there you'll get an idea of what direction they wish to go in. In your instance they wanted a few changes. This is the time when you take control of the business transaction. "Just so you folks know, the design as stands, executed in HP vinyl, two doors as you've requested, will run you $xxx dollars. The enhancements you have requested I will incorporate into the design, you realize the additional work will increase the final cost of installed sign. Shop policy requires a sign commitment deposit of 50%, payable by cash or cheque? How do you wish we proceed from here?"
If they are price shoppers, or plainly can't afford what you are offering, you've wasted little of your own time with them. Cut your losses, tell them their 10 minutes are up, wish them good luck with their endevour and have a good night.
As far as the bratty kids, I've been lucky I guess and have not had that problem. Plenty of good suggestions on this thread though...
-------------------- "Are we having fun yet?" Peter Schuttinga DZines Sign Studio 1617 Millstream rd Victoria BC V9B-6G4 Posts: 521 | From: Victoria BC | Registered: Mar 2002
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Bob,, you lie,, Your a natural with kids. You, and your snakes had my son transfixed. He talked about them all the way home.. He was worried about little hoggie and when he would eat.
-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5274 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
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Had a couple bring in a 5 year old girl who was not in school because she was sick. She threw up on the carpet about 2 feet from where I was working. The parents didn't even offer to help clean up the mess and just acted like nothing happened. I felt sorry for the kid, but the parents ticked me off!
We have a swing set,slide and monkey bars in our yard, so the kids usually flock to them instead of bugging me.
Add a "P.I.T.A.A.B." charge for your trouble! (Pain In The A** Ankle Biters)
-------------------- Michael Clanton Clanton Graphics/ Blackberry 19 Studio 1933 Blackberry Conway AR 72034 501-505-6794 clantongraphics@yahoo.com Posts: 1736 | From: Conway Arkansas | Registered: Oct 2001
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Wow! Several issues brought up in this thread that resonate with me in this business. . . "fighting the good fight and picking your battles". . .that shaking feeling - facing manipulative "sign-shoppers"; feeling compelled to design on-screen while someone's breathin' down yer neck; and my toughest issue: people that won't/don't/can't control their kids. That's why I'm fascinated with this BullBoard. . . You guys really show your creativity (and inspire me!) in so many other ways - besides sign designs!
-------------------- Warren F. Ad Signs Honolulu Posts: 38 | From: Honolulu, HI, USA | Registered: Feb 2000
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