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I have had 2 phone calls today about magnetic signs. No problem, as this is my bread and butter. Both were obvious price-shoppers. Again, I'm used to that. The first was friendly and polite. The second call went like this: "Do you do them magnetic signs?" Me: Yes I sure do! "How much for them?" Me: $79.95 for a set of 2-12" by 24" "Oh" (disgusted sounding, followed by a click) I have been charging that same price for over 15 years. Why did he treat me like I was some sort of gouger? He hung up before I could tell him to go to Kinko's. Love....Jill
-------------------- That is like a Mr. Potato Head with all the pieces in the wrong place. -Russ McMullin Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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its bad see if you not have a new shop near of you ............maybe less expensive maybe not the same look a lot of new people purchase ploter an think can made a good job ....only somme one can an maybe he can call an give you the work c-ya
-------------------- rene st pierre quebec city canada
red & white 81 forever 666 Posts: 290 | From: quebec city | Registered: Aug 2003
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LOL, Hey I wudd'nt care . . . I've (apparently) already established my self as a hostile sign woman . . .LOL . . .
Actually, getting hung-up on so quickly would be quite convenient for me since it so quickly tells SO much about the person and saved ME so much time!
I also have caller ID and would'nt answer if they ever called again unless I just wanted to 'have some fun' one day and mess with them about it. . .those are the kind of people you just go ahead put on that 'bad check' list . . .
Rudeness is intolerabel to me. If you hate my prices, FINE . . .at least leave me with the courtesy of a debate...a sarcastic joke, or somethin' . . .
-------------------- Signs Sweet Home Alabama
oneshot on chat
"Look like a girl, act like a lady, think like a man, work like a dog" Posts: 5758 | From: "Sweet Home" Alabama | Registered: Mar 2003
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Jilly, The second call could have been your competition checking up on you. Maybe on the same job! He might have been discouraged and a bit POed because your price is a lot lower than he would charge. Just a thought. Do you have Caller Identify? It can be useful when trying to flush out these folks. Also, giving no phone quotes flushes some out. They must have a fax number and a proper company name. If you use Estimate, just tell them you will calculate a price and fax it to them. Tell them you must have their address, phone and fax numbers and contact name in order to generate a quote. If they don't have a fax or they think this is unreasonable, I'd wonder what kind of an operation they have, and avoid them.
posted
Shiela you are to funny (hostile sign woman and messing with them when they call back).
I am kind of tired of the whiners and used to sell around 60 a pair then 70 and now I just say it's 100 and if they want it then we'll talk otherwise they are waisting both our time. I'm tired of scrappin by we're professionials and we should charge accordingly. When you think how much time we waste on these price shoppers and then they want this changed and that changed we could have just given them the material and said go at it and been better off.
Raise your rates Jill, you can do it! You do great work!
-------------------- Brian Diver PDQ Signs Everett, Wa
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jill, call him back and make excited monkey sounds. if they are there in person, give then the librarian looking over her glasses look , my personal favorite.
-------------------- Stan Yates Crocodile Creek Signs PO Box 308 Waldo FLA 32694 crocodilecreeksigns@juno.com Posts: 85 | From: waldo. fla | Registered: Aug 2002
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I just lost a customer (no great loss) this week due to my supposed rudeness. The customer has been a good one for over a year. Got repeat business from them every few months. A new guy has joined the office and he has had the attitude of being a price shopper. The original guy, (still there) was not. They bought a used Snap-On tools truck and wanted me to remove the old Snap-On decals and reletter both sides and the back with their logos, name and location, and the services they offer. Pricing guide shows the pricing for a step van with this stuff on it at over $1700. I told him I would letter the truck for $1000 and it would cost $200 to remove the old decals. He whined and moaned and tried to get me to drop the price. He didn't call back and two weeks later I saw the truck in town and it was lettered. He had an unpaid invoice for a whopping $48 that was over 30 days out. I sent out a new invoice with my usual "grace period" note on it that said, "This invoice is over 30 days out and is now past due. If payment in full is not received by March 1, a new invoice will be issued with late charges added to the total." I sent it out in time to give him a full week after he received it to meet the March 1 date. I received the check from him on Monday and a note that said he was sorry but they were busy, and with this attitude for $48 they would not be doing any more business with me. I know that they were not going to do business with me anyhow after taking the truck elsewhere and this was his excuse to make it look like it was my fault. Oh well, don't need his type. It's funny how "this attitude" was bad, but his failure to pay for over 30 days (when he said the check would be sent out right away), not returning my phone calls (which would have avoided the new invoice), and not returning my e-mails was an OK attitude in his mind. His rudeness was overshadowed by my supposed rudeness. Good luck to his next cheapie supplier.
-------------------- Dana Blair Blair Signs Wooster, OH www.blairsigns.com
If sign makers go on strike, is there anything written on their picket signs? Posts: 835 | From: Wooster, OH, USA | Registered: Jul 1999
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I've always made it a point to never give prices over the phone.
I always end up regretting it.
I explain there are two many varibles that affect prices. Either they stop and see me or I'll send them a sales package. (letter, flyer with samples and testimonials, and a gift certificate for first time buyers that expires in 10 days. Hint: always mention the gift certificate)
Once I get them talking, ie... what size, color, etc..
I've found it best to offer three prices.
(my budget price - ie.. 12x18 single color mags, value price - 12x18 up to two colors, and premium price - 12x24 up to three colors including logo)
Most of my past customers even though they sound like they are only interested in price, switch gears once they see other options.
However, there are those times that I've wanted to reach through the phone lines and grab the jerk on the other end by his and her tongue.
-------------------- Great White Signs Logan, Ohio
"All signs now come with new and improved vinyl." jimw@1067wwtl.com Posts: 53 | From: Logan, Ohio | Registered: Jan 2002
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Would be curious to know what kind of a job was done on that Snap-On van, Dana. This dude evidently got what he thought was a better price---did he get the quality you would have given?
On the $48 thing--just think what kind of a snit he'd have had if there had been some real money in question.
Types like this are not worth lying awake at night worrying about. One way or another, they will try to beat you down. I always thought it was a power, or ego trip sort of thing. Compensation for inadequacies--real or imagined. Most likely real.
Just the type I enjoy taking the wind out of their sails---'cause frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn.
bill preston
-------------------- Bill Preston Fly Creek, N.Y. USA Posts: 943 | From: Fly Creek, N.Y. USA | Registered: Jan 2000
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Thank him he only wasted one minute off your time.
Maybe next time, you ask the questions, what did they have to spend in mind. Maybe all they had was forty bucks then you could tell him what he could get for that price or like you said point him to Kinko's.
-------------------- Steve Eisenreich Dezine Signs PO BOX 6052 Stn Forces Cold Lake, Alberta T9M 2C5 Posts: 774 | From: Cold Lake | Registered: Mar 2000
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What do you expect...? A bunch of drunks, probably livin' on the dole and expectin' ta get paid real money?
I guess it more about how the sign business has been adulterated and homoginized by the "Fast" signers is where the attitude starts. When your former good customer becomes aware that there are "DECENT" prices to be had at the retailer locations, it gets thier back up and all is not well in thier mind about how y'all have been stabbing the poor folks.
Don't you get it?
There just aint enough angels around these days to sit on our shoulders. LOL CrazyKcaj
-------------------- Jack Wills Studio Design Works 1465 E.Hidalgo Circle Nye Beach / Newport, OR Posts: 2914 | From: Rocklin, CA. USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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I guess I just started this post out of anger. If you could have heard the affronted outrage in the caller's single "OH"....it was as if I'd just said "Yo Mama wears Army boots" to him.
Someone told me that I am too cheap. There is a place 2 miles up the street from me that sells hideous mag sets for $39. I believe Kinko's are $29.
I'm happy to get $79.95 for my mags. I charge more if it is custom-cut to look like vehicle lettering, etc. I can do em right on the kitchen table, and I think it's pretty good profit for the rural-suburb-type area that I live in.
Any time I've ever asked the "How much do you want to spend/What is your budget?" question, I get treated even worse. Around here, that means "How much can I charge this poor bastard and get away with it?"
I have no problems giving prices over the phone. It's far easier than having them come to me and waste my time trying to haggle me down. I call people for prices on things. I would be suspicious of them if I couldn't even get a ballpark price over the phone.
I do have Caller ID, and it was just your average Joe. As far as I can reckon, I've never been called by another shop. If one did call me, I'd still say the same thing. If they wanna hand out mags cheaper than I do, God bless 'em.
Love.....Jill
-------------------- That is like a Mr. Potato Head with all the pieces in the wrong place. -Russ McMullin Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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"Yo Mama wears Army boots" heard that before Ever hear this one: "Yo mammy weah croaka-sack draws"?
quote:Any time I've ever asked the "How much do you want to spend/What is your budget?" question, I get treated even worse. Around here, that means "How much can I charge this poor bastard and get away with it?"
I know where you're coming from Jill. When I've asked some people that, they get this suspicious look and back up like I'm trying to grab their wallet....or give you a look like "budget.....whassat?"
It seems hard for me to help some folks see that I need to know what I'm pricing before I can give a price. SOme folks even act like they think their sign is in your stockroom, with a pricetag hanging on it already. I had a lady come into the shop one day wanting a banner. When asked what she wanted it to say she says:"Jesus". We settled on a size and a price and then she wanted to see what the banner looked like. So I pulled a box down off the shelf containing a rolled up blank banner and slid it out a little so she could see it. She said she wanted to see the whole banner unrolled. When I told her it looked the same unrolled she got this puzzled look and said: "oh, it don't say Jesus on it?" I had to contain myself until she left Like no...I ran out of Jesus banners...but the truck comes in on Thursday....we do have plenty of hare krishna, mohammed, and buddha banners in stock though...in 10 different colors.....
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7403 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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I've got a bit of a bad attitude - if you don't like my prices, by all means use my competitor. A few years ago a guy came to me wanting me to put new lettering on an existing awning. I designed him a cool logo, and provided an estimate including $300 prep time (the awning wrapped around the building), which included cleaning up the adhesive left by existing letters. He called me every name in the book, because my competitor had quoted him $500 less. Here's the job (picture was taken soon after) - 3 years later, the job's still up, but the amount of dirt that's stuck to the old adhesive makes an already terrible sign even worse.
Last laugh.
Added: Just to clarify - my competitor did the job!
-------------------- Janet Bakewell One Sun Grafiks Inc. Slave Lake, AB Canada www.onesungrafiks.com Posts: 128 | From: Slave Lake, AB Canada | Registered: Apr 1999
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-------------------- Frank Magoo, Magoo's-Las Vegas; fmagoo@netzero.com "the only easy day was yesterday" Posts: 2365 | From: Las Vegas, Nv. | Registered: Jun 2003
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Hey, it takes skills to put TWO spelling mistakes into ONE word! Particularly a very common word... What does that say about the intelligence of the restaurant owner?
posted
yeah i'm sure my attitude is getting more arrogant everyday. i had a customer call me for 12 coro signs 2 days b4 i was leaving for a week(work related)...he calls tuesday(the day i got back) and asked if the signs were done.....ah no i just got back dude. he says...i guess i should have checked around. me...yeah or planned ahead. him...well the thing will be over soon. me...when did it start? him...it starts this weekend but i'm leaving tomorrow...my sister is leaving thursday. me...oh so it hasn't even started yet....i'll have them for you on thursday and your sister can bring them to you. today i get a call around noon from the sister...are those signs done? me..yeah they're sitting right here. her...well when are you bringing them over cause i'm leaving soon. me...aren't you going by this way? her...no me...well i don't know what to tell you...they're here and done...ya know i'm one person i can't just drop everything to deliver signs your heiness. her...well my brother said he ordered these a long time ago. me...no...your brother ordered these 2 days b4 i was leaving for a week and i was booked solid then..now its 2 days after i returned and they are done. i'm going out to do errands in about an hour...either you can wait for them or you can drive the whopping 3 miles out of your way and pick them up...what'll it be sweetness? she went and did errands for awhile and i dropped them off....but really am i the one out of line here? when i order stuff i expect to pick it up...not delivered my to place of employment...people suck....and yes i know i sounded rude...but i was just fueled by the tone on the other end of the phone.
-------------------- Karyn Bush Simply Not Ordinary, LLC Bartlett, NH 603-383-9955 www.snosigns.com info@snosigns.com Posts: 3516 | From: Bartlett, NH USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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Jill, remember that in modern America, anybody can pick up a phone and call anybody anywhere. ANYBODY. One of the Victorian London critics warned that universal literacy may not be such a good idea.
-------------------- Bruce Williams Lexington KY Posts: 945 | From: Lexington, KY, USA | Registered: Mar 1999
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Janet, thanks for that laugh. I'm sure I'm not the only one around here that would love to see a "3 year later when the crud is sticking to the left behind adhesive" version too.
-------------------- Chris Welker Wildfire Signs Indiana, Pa Posts: 4254 | From: Indiana, PA | Registered: Mar 2001
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Yeah, count me in on the "3 year later when the crud is sticking to the left behind adhesive" crowd, too...
-------------------- Bruce Bowers
DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter Posts: 6451 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
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the competition just threw in those typos to keep us off his case a little longer on the brilliant decision to take the realities of endless length, & highly limited height as an obvious clue that he should distort the type nearly beyond recognition by... CONDENSING IT... of all things
posted
LOL Janet!! I'm scared of that competitively dark 'top-side' drop-shade too . . .and why the severe condensing?? Were they afraid of runnin' out of room??
And BTW . . .if he's so chintzy with the signs . . . wonder what kind'a cheap food supplies he stocks . . .Cat-rat-dog burgers?? I bet he waters down the ketchup too . . . and saves & re-uses uneaten food when they clear the tables . . .ACK~ Pickles previously sucked by little kids!!
I'm afraid I'm simply compelled to ask customers like this right to their face what else they're nitty about . . .
-------------------- Signs Sweet Home Alabama
oneshot on chat
"Look like a girl, act like a lady, think like a man, work like a dog" Posts: 5758 | From: "Sweet Home" Alabama | Registered: Mar 2003
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I know a guy that has a plotter, a part time sign guy at best. He did a couple plastic faces about 5' x 8' or so. The main copy was upper and lower case letters. He told me that he hated to spend all that money on vinyl, so when he layed it out for plotting, he pulled some of the end letters from the word, and moved them over the first letters, all jumbled like. He cut it that way, then applied the letters individually. Hey, saves vinyl you know?
But right now, I don't care to learn more about signs. I'm picking up some really good home economics tips, as in watered down catsup and used pickles!
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
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Ya know . . .someone else mentioned to me that I would learn to get really picky about how layed out plots in order to save vinyl . . .but to me that's ridiculous . . . . time is money . . .
Why would I waste that enormous amount of time trying to lay everything BACK out perfectly on the sign because of trying to save a foot or two of vinyl?? If so, you waste time twice . . .laying it out on the screen, pulling it apart and stacking, then trying to re-lay it out on the sign . . . (I could'a bought 3 rolls of vinyl with that time's money . . . )
Conservative common sense is one thing . . .but that extreme saving of vinyl is an assinine concept.
-------------------- Signs Sweet Home Alabama
oneshot on chat
"Look like a girl, act like a lady, think like a man, work like a dog" Posts: 5758 | From: "Sweet Home" Alabama | Registered: Mar 2003
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Here's the "crud" version for Kissy. The restaurant's gone belly-up... no wonder!
Actually... I'm really thinking of purchasing this place... lol... dozing the building. It's about a 1/2 acre lot, corner of main street on the way to the industrial area... perfect for a shop, and it's zoned to allow for an apartment above. I currently work out of my home - have a small garage, but would love to have a bay to do vehicles and larger signs. Probably should've started a new topic for this, but I know that a lot of you have your own shops... what do you think?
Thanks!
-------------------- Janet Bakewell One Sun Grafiks Inc. Slave Lake, AB Canada www.onesungrafiks.com Posts: 128 | From: Slave Lake, AB Canada | Registered: Apr 1999
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Been reading through the posts, Sheila... looks like things are a little heated in more than one spot!
-------------------- Janet Bakewell One Sun Grafiks Inc. Slave Lake, AB Canada www.onesungrafiks.com Posts: 128 | From: Slave Lake, AB Canada | Registered: Apr 1999
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LOL!! Yeh Janet, and wait'll ya see the sticky glue residue on all THAT . . .Gotta get LOTS of Rapid Tack remover stuff for that . . .
Hey, what about building you apartment ON that building and completely cleaning and relettering the awning for your new shop??. . .you could do your thing on it and then hang a banner from it that says: Open for business and HERE is how an awning should look! Come on in and let us make YOUR business look great!"
-------------------- Signs Sweet Home Alabama
oneshot on chat
"Look like a girl, act like a lady, think like a man, work like a dog" Posts: 5758 | From: "Sweet Home" Alabama | Registered: Mar 2003
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I just saw the opportunity hidden in this thread... when we set our sights on an ideal future home for business... we should try to land the account & sabatoge the former tenant with really really BAD signage... then not only will their business fail & the location become available... but maybe if we can run that scam twice before letting our motives be known... the property value may come down based on the failure of the location to provide commercial success.
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Doug! You schlick-miester! Are you sure you ain't really a politician...or a used car salesman?? Mabey ....*cringe* a lawyer?? Careful . . .yer gonna expose yerself . . .
-------------------- Signs Sweet Home Alabama
oneshot on chat
"Look like a girl, act like a lady, think like a man, work like a dog" Posts: 5758 | From: "Sweet Home" Alabama | Registered: Mar 2003
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That is priceless. I think if ya buy the place & doze the building, you should save that awning for the next time some jerk tells you your competitor is cheaper, you can pull out that nasty awning & they'll see why they're cheaper.
-------------------- Chris Welker Wildfire Signs Indiana, Pa Posts: 4254 | From: Indiana, PA | Registered: Mar 2001
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Good idea, Kissy... I'll keep those awesome Christmas lights, too.
-------------------- Janet Bakewell One Sun Grafiks Inc. Slave Lake, AB Canada www.onesungrafiks.com Posts: 128 | From: Slave Lake, AB Canada | Registered: Apr 1999
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