posted
Just got off the phone with a customer. (I don’t have a store front, so I cold call to get business) I was cold calling and his sign was crap. Went in and sat down with the customer, showed him some sign and logo samples.
He said AFTER, he didn’t want to pay for me to do a logo, he would do it himself. (fine) Then called me later to see if I could get him a copy of the logo’s he liked. Right! NOT.
Then He sends me a logo, Not to bad. I take an hour to lay out a sign with his logo in it. Then give him an estimate for the sign and the design time, asked me to e-mail it to him, I add,This is property of “The Sign Studio” below the layout. Call him up, He says he is still getting quotes, I said with my design? he says no. RIGHT!
Then he says 'well I got an estimate, the design time was only $30." “You charged $50 for the hour, and your estimate is a little higher. We will have to talk about that.” RIGHT! I said “well they are only going to spend that much time on a design for you”
Well are you comparing apples to apples, are they using High performance vinyl? Customer, “does not say”
I’m very new at the sign business. I don’t want a store front, I don’t mind cold calling. I never get any jobs asking for $$ up front, so I spend a little time on designs. I never let the customer have them unless get a deposit.
Except for this time,
Laura The Sign Studio
-------------------- Laura Burke The Sign Studio 2022 N 51 st Milwaukee WI 53208 Mariah969@yahoo.com Posts: 14 | From: Milwaukee WI | Registered: Nov 2003
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posted
Hang in there Laura.... The first few years of growing pains in this industry can be pretty distressing. Stand your ground and tell him that you can't comment on the quote the other place gives as you don't know what materials they use and how particular they are. Using his existing logo and laying out a sign can be a pretty grey area unless it is a very unique take on it, especially if you have used clipart sign shapes or images. Now had you designed the logo, it would be an entirely different ball game.
*DISCLAIMER* - these are my opinions and do not claim to be the right answer ....as Joey says - what is a logo anyway?
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5496 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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posted
bob burns who posted quite a bit here had a tag line....THE CUSTOMER IS YOUR ENEMY...TREAT THEM AS SUCH!!!!! now you belive it....hehehehe
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Quote: "I never get any jobs asking for $$ up front, so I spend a little time on designs. I never let the customer have them unless get a deposit."
Start establishing your ground rules NOW rather than trying to change them later. This does'nt have to be a hard 'growing pains' time . . .it can be the Optimal Opportunity to set the policies that will eventually pay off with customer respect for you and you work.
Hold your head up, don;t be intimidated, explain what you will and won't do right off the bat, keep usin' quality material....use contracts, get signatures, get money up front for art and time, 1/2 down balance on completion for a job, always deliever what you say you'll do... are just plain ol' good business practices that will earn you money for such time wisely spent.
Let the hood-winkers and tire kickers beat up someone else while you move on to bigger and better things.
Pretty soon, you won't have to be cold callin'... they'll be comin' to you!
-------------------- Signs Sweet Home Alabama
oneshot on chat
"Look like a girl, act like a lady, think like a man, work like a dog" Posts: 5758 | From: "Sweet Home" Alabama | Registered: Mar 2003
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It may be hard to get deposits when you're first starting, but it's an awful lot harder to break a bad habit then it is to not even start said bad habit.
As far as showing the customer designs before you get a committment of the job out of them, you are cheapening yourself in their eyes. They now think that your deperate for work or that your design time obviously can't be worth much since you do it for free. Take a look at the amount of visitors and residents here & you'll see a lot of people won't pay for something they can get for free.
-------------------- Chris Welker Wildfire Signs Indiana, Pa Posts: 4254 | From: Indiana, PA | Registered: Mar 2001
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An idea...next time.... You might tell the customer... "You are welcome to SEE your design on the screen at my shop, but I have to charge if it leaves the shop in any type of a hard copy. I realize that YOU wouldn't do this, but some customer's have tried to take my design and shop around with it to other shops. I am just trying to protect myself and my time." Said with a big smile, they usually understand. Don't buy the one, "I just want to show it to my wife." SHE can come in and see it too!
-------------------- Jane Diaz Diaz Sign Art 628 W. Lincoln Ave. Pontiac, Il. 61764 815-844-7024 www.diazsignart.com Posts: 4102 | From: Pontiac, IL USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3489 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
I'll give some advice here, because I need to hear it again myself.
Even though we are computer graphic artists & also probably perfectionists too & can do a layout 3 times & still be tweaking it to perfection...
grab a pencil sketch out the approximate proportions of the sign in question... with his logo drawing on the table between you... (his shop or yours... but meet in person, it only needs to take 20 minutes)draw a square, circle, triangle whatever & write logo in it... then maybe spell out the business name in a rough approximation of the size/shape where you propose that it go (BTW, sometimes when I draw that first "box" for the sign shape... I draw 3 or 4 in case I need to change layouts to get an acceptable one) then the secondary copy can be roughed in with scribbles, maybe the first letter showing to keep trace of what goes where.
You can get a layout squared away like this enough to establish that the information can be made to fit the sign size... that you & he are on the same page re: prioritizing copy... & maybe you go the extra mile & grab some colored pencils, maybe you don't... but this is one way to deal with thinking you will "not get jobs asking money up front"... but spend a little LESS time on layouts... & give them a little LESS to go showing your competition.
[ February 23, 2005, 06:21 PM: Message edited by: Doug Allan ]
Never E-mail it as you just gave a shopping list for this person. Invite to Your Home to view only!
Their excuss is I need to show my wife then set up a time for her to come over as well.
Well she can't........
Ok I will bring a Hardcopy (paper) over for you both to review but I shall be taking it back as I leave.
Unless you like to sign it as a contract to go ahead with the work. Don't bow down because you know your in this for the long haul and never give the customer the upper hand in your poker game.
-------------------- Stephen Deveau RavenGraphics Insinx Digital Displays
Letting Your Imagination Run Wild! Posts: 4327 | From: Lower Sackville, Nova Scotia, Canada | Registered: Jan 2000
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