posted
Hi All, I need to install vinyl lettering to a storefront. The job goes across 2 windows with a metal strip in between, and covers an area of about 5' x 8'. I did the store beside in this strip mall last summer in the heat, but now it's below freezing here in Canada. Will I have adhesion problems. Any help with installing vinyl to windows in -10 degrees Celsius?
posted
See if they can wait till the spring! I am doing the same thing in Guelph I told the customer I can guarentee proper adhesion.
What about reverse cutting it and installing from the inside?
If not wait until a slightly warmer day and take a heat gun and warm up the glass and leave the vinyl in the vehicle with the heat on full tilt and just take out what you are using at that time.
Let me know who you make out!
-------------------- Steve Thomas Greer ABRACADABRA SIGNS & DESIGNS 102 Stanley St. Ayr, Ont. Canada Posts: 602 | From: Ayr, Ontario. Canada | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
Although I am not happy about it, I do windows all winter long in Michigan. It just takes extra time and a heat gun. It also helps to leave the transfer tape on a few extra minutes before peeling it off.
No offense Steve, nobody seems willing to wait anymore. Everybody has a drive-thru mentality. If you ask them to wait till spring, someone else will do the work.
[ February 17, 2005, 11:34 AM: Message edited by: Rick Beisiegel ]
""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3484 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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BE VERY CAREFUL heating up glass! We cracked a $600+ window one year right before Christmas (made for a very "slim" holiday!). He had a space heater in the inside of the window trying to get the condensation to go away. It was before we did vinyl and Bill was trying to paint it on a cold day and the water just keep coming back. All of a sudden....PING! ...NOT a good thing!
-------------------- Jane Diaz Diaz Sign Art 628 W. Lincoln Ave. Pontiac, Il. 61764 815-844-7024 www.diazsignart.com Posts: 4102 | From: Pontiac, IL USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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Hey, good to see you still checkin in on us Roger, hope things have been well with ya.
10 degrees celsius is 50 degrees fahrenheit, so not all that cold really.
I will confirm what Roger sez, rapidtacII will definately be of some benefit with colder installs.
What I never hear though is that most vinyls have a minimum temp requirement for install, and usually for the more common brands its about 45-50 degrees fahrenheit, or about 8-10 degrees celsius. I would think your on your own if the install fails installing at -10 celsius as far as warranties go, but I too have done a few installs in the cold like this, and I guess depending on your own integrity, the supplier would never know that you have installed it at a far lower tempurature than what is deemed safe. I could just be lucky never needing to have made a claim, but I'll bet the rapid products are the shining star to me.
Back to rapidtacII, sure does work great in these cooler conditions to get you through it, although up here in Canada, I've never had it react quite as quickly as what its stated on the bottle, but I sure wouldnt attempt it without this stuff. Just be patient and let it sit alittle longer before you remove the transfer tape, it may take up to half an hour by some of my experiences, but its sure alot better than that homemade juice I used to use 10 years ago that would just freeze under the vinyl and leave you with nothing sticking well at all.
-------------------- Tim Rieck Signs Halfmoon Bay, BC Posts: 736 | From: Halfmoon Bay, BC, Canada | Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
At -10C my fingers get WAAAAY too cold to even think about doing an install on ANY substrate!!!!
Not to mention my nose and my ears and any other body parts.
I tell my customers to wait until things warm up to at least 0 C, since I can't guarantee the job will last. Somehow, customers in the freezing north seem to realize the sensibility of the advice.
I have never had a single customer doubt my advice.
Either I am a convincing person or my customers are "Smarter than the AV-ER-AGE bear" (said in my best Yogi Bear voice!!!!)
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
posted
Tim, we usually find that the "cleaning process" is to blame for long waits on bonding times !
If you clean with the Rapid Tac or TacII and a cheap grocery store paper towel you should have bonding in aprox. 90 seconds.
If you clean with other products or use cloth to wipe with or "lint free/static free" paper towels (saturated in chemicals when produced) you will have way SLOW bonding, from contamination!
Roger
-------------------- Roger Bailey Rapid Tac Incorporated 186 Combs Dr. Merlin Oregon 97532 Posts: 3020 | From: Merlin Oregon | Registered: Dec 1998
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Hey Rog, I guess I should of wrote a novel instead of just a short story for my post. I do use the products just as you describe, and have been for a few years now. So here goes anyways.
I clean thoroughly with Rapidprep and use only cheap paper towel (cuz I'm a penny pincher anyway), but also, just as you have pounded it into us over the years here on the bullboard. Then I clean once again with the appy fluid I happen to be using for said install, Rapidtac for most installs like vehicles and other substrates, and only RapidtacII for glass and the cold weather stuff, and again only with cheap paper towels. Then I apply my vinyl just as stated on the bottle and also on your website, and again as you have pounded it into us here. If there is any contamination left after all this, I would hazard to say it must be coming from your products then, because nothing else has touched these surfaces except air and the vinyl upon install.
I know you've stated this little story about your 25F degree install many times before here, and I do believe you, but maybe you should try it up here where it does get far colder than that on occasion, and have a client that simply just wont wait for better climates. I've even gone as far as taping styrofoam to the outside of the glass on the area of install to help keep away the cold and hope the glass surface will warm up some, but it didnt seem to help much from what I've found. It still takes time to grab, far far more time than 90 seconds.
I'm sorry if you felt that somehow I pee'd in your cornflakes, cuz I actually thought what I posted above was a big thanks to you and your products, sure beats that homemade juice I used to use. I think I mentioned that too!
Actually it took alot of screaming and yelling just to get a couple of my suppliers to finally bring in all of your products so I had easy ordering and access to them. Sure everyone had regular Rapidtac and Rapidremover, but it was like pulling teeth to get them to stock Rapidprep and RapidtacII. So much so that I actually emailed you several times to become a distributor and even had called and left a message or two, of which none were answered. Guess maybe I just needed to crawl back into my igloo up here!
I surely didnt mean to get the hairs up on the back of your neck, I posted what my real experiences have been as a happy Rapiduser over the years, in our real although sometimes colder environment. I cant think of any other time that one of your products hasnt lived up to what you say they do, with this exception only of cold glass installs.
I still do love your vigor and the tenacity of how you stand behind your products and how you try to help people out with the best way to do it using your stuff. But I guess I didnt like to hear that it was probably me that was doing something wrong to cause this extra waiting time, when I explicitly follow your instructions and recommendations.
I've got a challenge for ya. Next time your up here in the frigid north, how abouts you come demonstrate it. I'll bring my RapidtacII and a stopwatch, and if you can get it to do as you say in a far colder climate, 90 seconds, then I buy you dinner!
I've probably ranted enough now. No hard feelings huh?
Best regards, and I do miss what was a more regular imput on the bullboard here from you.
-------------------- Tim Rieck Signs Halfmoon Bay, BC Posts: 736 | From: Halfmoon Bay, BC, Canada | Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
To answer the question, -10c = 14f and 14c = 57.2f. Easily mis-understood if reading a chart too quickly. I think you should wait until it warms up a bit.
-------------------- Bill Cosharek Bill Cosharek Signs N.Huntingdon,Pa
bcosharek@juno.com Posts: 703 | From: N.Huntingdon, Pa, USA | Registered: Dec 1999
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posted
GORD! GORD! PLEASE LISTEN TO WHAT DIANE SAID ABOUT THE GLASS CRACKING WHEN USING A HEAT GUN! DON'T USE A HEAT GUN ON COLD GLASS, THERE'S A REALLY GOOD CHANCE IT WILL CRACK. Alright I'll stop shouting now.
-------------------- "Keep Positive"
SIGNS1st. Neil Butler Paradise, NF Posts: 6277 | From: St. John's NF Canada | Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Anyone ever try putting builders foam insulation on the OUTSIDE of the window and letting the heat from the space on the inside heat it up?? Mirror cut the vinyl and install it on the inside of the glass. Only did this once, but it worked!
-------------------- Mark Neurohr "Ernest" Paintin' Place 141 Sunnyside Road Kittanning, PA 16201
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Gord, We do it all the time here in WI ... Next to St.Paul, MN...use a few hot water bottles heated in a micowave stored in a cooler (keeps them hot on site). Pre heat window after cleaning and apply vinyl, before removing the tranfer tape heat up again by holding hot water bottles to glass over area that you are stripping of transer tape... common sence tells you not to over heat till the glass breaks... if its to hot to handle... its to hot for the glass I'm doing another window this week this way a snowy enviroment... no complants from client from the past and i've done about 10 this year... Good luck Rick
-------------------- Rick Whitmire Trick Communications & Signs Box 1124, Hudson, WI Posts: 132 | From: Hudson, WI | Registered: Nov 2002
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Rapid Tac does work in this kind of situation- I have used soap and water alot, but I find myself appreciating Rapid Tac on many occasions- Like when I lay up several layers of vinyl on the backing before I apply it to a truck or boat And other tricky situations. Are you still giving it away Roger? -Shon
-------------------- Light and Shadow Manzanita,Oregon shonlenzo@hotmail.com Posts: 286 | From: Manzanita,Oregon | Registered: Feb 2000
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Rick, I like your hot water bottle idea. This customer is somewhat patient, so I'm going try to wait for a day above freezing. If not, I'm going to try your hot water bottle idea. I've been through Hudson many, many times. Used to pull my big truck into the parking lot at the Wal-Mart there, and grab a burger at Wendy's. Also raced snowmobiles in MN several times.
posted
I did a multiple layer job on glass in well below freezing temp using Rapid Tack. All I did was give it more time before removing the transfer tape. I would have used the foam method mentioned above but A: I had to install it outside, and B: it was on a door of an unheated vestibule of a church.
I used Rapid Tack (didn't have any RT II) did it wet, gave it some extra time to set, (increase your install charge if they want it in cold weather)then spritzed the application tape with Rapid Tack, wait some more then remove slowly. I used Transferite which breaks down when soaked with Rapid Tack. R Tape Conform doesn't break down properly. This was a few years ago so I'm sure it was not Transferite Ultra.
Everyone is in such a hurry. Give it some time, it WILL stick.
[ February 22, 2005, 11:54 AM: Message edited by: Dave Sherby ]
-------------------- Dave Sherby "Sandman" SherWood Sign & Graphic Design Crystal Falls, MI 49920 906-875-6201 sherwoodsign@sbcglobal.net Posts: 5396 | From: Crystal Falls, MI USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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