posted
Christian does not only provide high quality rendings on a huge volume of current vehicles every year, but the amount of detail he goes into to make sure the dimensions are dead on accurate is mindboggling.
Anybody with a need for accurate vehicle rendering, you will find no better than his state of the art collections.
I've done plenty of vehicle renderings, and after speaking and corresponding via email with Christian, I bow to this guy's work!
posted
Not trying to be a Smart Azz here, but Why? When a digital camera is all you need, you can't get anymore accurate than that. I'm sure his collection is great, but why? Is there something more to this than I know about? Or is the "Look" or "Feel" of a hand rendering, is what it's all about. Just Asking.
-------------------- "Keep Positive"
SIGNS1st. Neil Butler Paradise, NF Posts: 6277 | From: St. John's NF Canada | Registered: Mar 1999
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If you have to time to go out and photograph just about every car and truck from 1993 to 2005 you may have an extensive collection like DAL but you would not be able to manipulate the images at all nor the availablity of having ALL of them at your fingertips.
Not to mention when you done photgraphing all the autos what will you have invested in time to do that?
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Neil, you load the vectored art, enlarge it to be true to life, and then you can take your software measuring tool anywhere and have completely accurate dimensions, of any of the vehicles parts, interrelated or separate.
No need to go take the digital photo, or no need for the customer to drive the vehicle by. I ask for make and year, then I open the template, color the vehicle appropriately, and then design right on that.
When I first get the vehicle on the lot, after design approval and costs are settled without ever having to meet, ( Credit Card capability and Technology combine to allow that so well), I test a single dimension on the car to see if I did not make a mistake and load the wrong model or year. And then I can trust any of the template
I do a lot of vehicles, and would feel lost without DAL and it's templates for anything on wheels and the beautiful and useful book Christian puts together so I can easily locate them all.
I have a 4x8 photo board in my shop, which mostly displays photos of lettered vehicles. Often I put the color printout of the design on a DAL template next to a photo of the finished car. It impresses people. They study my board.
-------------------- Myra A. Grozinger Signs Limited Winston-Salem, NC
signslimited@triad.rr.com Posts: 1244 | From: Winston-Salem, NC USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I've been with Christian on photo / measuring expeditions before and the time he puts in measuring all the details of a car is amazing - literally hours.
He explained to me one time about parallax distortion and how while you can roughly position graphics from a digital photo, they don't exactly fit. To the best of my understanding this is the result of both where you are standing in relation to the vehicle and the distortion from the lens.
He takes the pictures, stitches them together, then measures the whole vehicle and properly creates the templates. It's quite a piece of work.
The net result is that you can design on the template then cut the vinyl and never have to see the actual vehicle until it's time to install the graphics.
-------------------- Best Regards, Mark Smith EstiMate Sign Pricing Software It's Not Luck. It's EstiMate.™ http://www.EstiMateSoftware.com 1-888-304-3300 Posts: 724 | From: Asheville, NC, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I am pretty much with the others on this one, Neil. It is mostly a matter of convenience.
While a digicam has its place in the tool box, the matter of resizing a digiphoto to real life size in a cutting program is not something I want to experiment with.
The other thing that comes to mind is this--- how big a file in any cutting program will a photo create---just because it is a photo with all the extra background etc. Not being real adept at photo cropping, weeding out un-necessary details and so forth, give me the DAL anytime.
FWIW.
bill preston
-------------------- Bill Preston Fly Creek, N.Y. USA Posts: 943 | From: Fly Creek, N.Y. USA | Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
My knowledge of Christian's work is along the lines of Mark, and he's described it very well.
Christian takes all sort of measurements. Also, he takes 3 -5 photos of each view (sides, front and rear. Between the measurements and using photos from different angles to defeat the angle of view distortion you would get from working with one photo only, he gets as nearly perfect scaling as is possible today. I don't remember the tolerances, but it's 1/4" or less as I recall.
The benefits of having that accurate a vehicle rendering are that your designs will fit when you go out on a job for an install. Vinyl is expensive, and more expensive to do one job twice.
As icing on the cake, a well done vector vehicle rendering makes for a very professional proposal to show to the customer.
Without this type of tool, working from a digital photo of the vehicle will do in a pinch. When I started working as a designer of boat/RV graphics, we did all of our drawings on top of photographs. We gradually switched to vector vehicle renderings as the customer liked them much better and therefore we made more sales. The difference between that and DAL is that we drew all the renderings in-house, with as much as a day devoted to each new vehicle as it came in for our artwork.
If you choose not to purchase something like DAL, doing your own renderings is cost inhibitive for the majority of jobs, and working on top of photos is pretty much the only sensible option.
posted
One other thing. We drew the vector renderings from one photo. I'd never heard the term "paralax distortion" before Christian mentioned it and explained it to me. It was more common than not that our first prototypes didn't fit when the salesman took them to the customer, and we would have to tweek them, sometimes two or three times, to get a perfect fit.
One design sale for us grossed a minimum of $250,000. (graphics for both sides and one pair of custom names for a vehicle x a minimum 1000 set order averaged $250 to $350 per set...the largest order I was involved with grossed $2 million, for one of the largest RV companies in the US). So, putting that much time into the renderings was well worth it. That would NOT be the case for a shop designing graphics for one vehicle.
[ February 01, 2005, 05:19 PM: Message edited by: Don Coplen ]
posted
I think Digital Auto Library is a great resource...but I offer a different perspective that probably aligns with Neil's.
I suppose it depends what variety of auto's you tend to do....and truthfully, I can see both sides of the coin here...
Mainly, I would be doing trucks, and vans from the Big 3....I tend to like the look of a digital camera shot of the vehicle, with graphics applied through Photoshop. I think the presentation is much more appealing and realistic.
Measuring is a cinch...and changing colors isn't all that difficult.
BUT....as Myra and some others suggest: if you're a very busy full time shop....the convenience of having a template would be invaluable.....
although I think that the presentation wouldn't be quite as impressive as a photo....
Is this important? I don't know that it is or isn't....
Time savings would definately be a factor though....
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
I've worked with his vector outline of vehicle before, They are a great tool BUT!
I prefer the digital camera way as far as a selling point of view. The customer see's the layout directly on the vehicle. That as sold lost of vehicle work for our shop.
posted
I have had DAL since 2000 and it is a good tool but truthfully, I don't need to be incredibly accurate so I rarely ever use it. The customer drives the vehicle to the shop, I measure the doors or whatever, write down the measurements, lay it out and git-r-done. No need to measure it with a micrometer only to cut it with an axe.
-------------------- Ricky Jackson Signs Now 614 Russell Parkway Warner Robins, GA (478) 923-7722 signpimp50@hotmail.com
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Sir Issac Newton Posts: 3528 | From: Warner Robins, GA | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
We use the digital camera on almost every job in our shop, when we make the initial contact with the customer either at their business or ours we always take a photo of what ever it is we are working on, either a vehicle or business window. We give a couple of color combinations and design layouts and they can see exactly what it will look like before we letter it. Its what we have been doing ever since digital cameras have been around. The customers love it!!! Just our view....
Hetz
-------------------- Jim & Chris Hetzler JC Hetz Studio 513 W 3rd St. Muscatine, IA 52761 563-263-2803 jhetzler@machlink.com www.jchetzstudio.com
"We are the one that makes you look good!" Posts: 137 | From: Muscatine,Iowa,USA | Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
Digital cameras are the way to go IMNSHO, unless you are doing an all over wrap. For doors, graphics, or even pinstriping it is a simple matter for us to take the pic, throw it right into SIGNLAB, size it up by measuring a couple spots on the vehicle and placing corresponding measurements on the picture. Done it for fix or six years, no prob whatsoever. Tried DAL and did not like it. Customers just plain like to see it on THEIR vehicle. As for having a library, that is just the point, I dont need to! I take the pic of the vehicle I need and that one ONLY. No need to be tethered to annual updates of images, HUNDREDS of which I will never ever use.
[ February 01, 2005, 10:59 PM: Message edited by: Barry Branscum ]
posted
I don't know, Digital cameras seem to be the best way, what about Truck caps, decals, seams and the lot. I've done hundreds if not thousands of vehicles using digital cameras, and never had an issue. Just measure a door, upscale in the design software, and there's never an issue, and like some said, the customer is imazed that they can see their own truck lettered right before their eyes... an Extremely powerful tool in my eyes.
Here's an example, before and after, to the trained eye you can tell what's before, but can most people?
-------------------- "Keep Positive"
SIGNS1st. Neil Butler Paradise, NF Posts: 6277 | From: St. John's NF Canada | Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
well there are 2 sides to this coin. I see more value in having an extensive library within my reach rather than having a customer come by, me go take a picture, make sure the angle is correct, measure the door, import it in, size it up to the measurement I took, and then letter.
With DAL, I would have already had the template in and had half the lettering done before the customer warmed up his vehicle to come over.
Not to mention the digital camera point is limited to a customer that already has the vehicle they are lettering. I have many customers start the design process well before the vehicle is in my thier hands.
taking a digital picture is too limiting and very time consuming compared to the DAL library.
But if you are comfortable with that then go for it.
BTW Congrats Steve!! enjoy~
[ February 02, 2005, 09:19 AM: Message edited by: Bob Rochon ]
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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Another factor in the vector renderings is that they use a fraction of the ink that printing a photo uses.
I don't think this is a post thread about one way is better than the other. It's turned more into a pro and con discussion. There are plenty of factors that make either a good way to do it.
I like the clean look of using a vector vehicle rendering. But, I also like what Neil posted. I would suggest checking out dal's site if you're undecided. I'm pretty sure they've been long time merchants here and so deserve at least a look-see.
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