posted
Just another curious question....does anyone here advertise in the conventional ways(other than signage of course)? Radio, newspaper, telephone book, cinemas?
Do you do it regularly?
What seems to be most effective?
Up til now we have done NONE. Just a bold listing in the yellow pages, and that is it.
We have a store front, and everything is walk-in and word of mouth.
posted
If you just advertise, you will be waist of money!
Advertising is just a corner stone of what you really need to do.
MARKETING BABY!!!!!!!
Marketing is what it's all about. I'm a firm believer that if you can market yourself and/or business you will succeed! It's a whole package thing. Marketing is something you need to plan, short and log term.
That is what I sell my customers, most of them are just starting out and they ask me the same question.
Find the clientele that you want, then market yourself to them.
posted
Hi Barry, I have a yellow page ad and it doesent do me much, I run a display ad in the local area pennysaver and it draws me quite a bit of business but most of it is probably word of mouth
Jason D
-------------------- Jason Davie 193 Front Street Deposit, NY 13754 Posts: 976 | From: USA | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
Most of our business comes from word of mouth but our advertising budget is targeted toward the apartment industry.
We are in the local apartment association and have an ad in their directory. We occasionally get a booth in their trade show and we mail out color brochures to managers. The brochure mail out has consistently brought good results. We also get word of mouth from that as managers pass the brochures on to others they know.
We recently purchased a color laser printer and can now print our own brochures.
For us, I cannot see how radio, TV, cinema, newspaper, etc. would help one bit. We have done quite a bit of work for the radio stations in the area and they always want to trade for on air advertising. I trade for greenbacks with them.
I don't advertise in the Yellow Pages except for my free listing.
-------------------- David Harding A Sign of Excellence Carrollton, TX Posts: 5089 | From: Carrollton, TX, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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We have labored over & over about this issue. When I read the post shown >HERE < AND HERE TOO it was like a gong hit me! So, this year we trimmed down our yellow pages and decided to spend the money on our 24/7 ad.....our building, yard, and sign. I think it is a good swap because each of the yellow page people who sat in my office to tell me how people reach for their book first......could do nothing to prove it!
Hope this helps.
[ January 20, 2005, 08:25 AM: Message edited by: Rick Beisiegel ]
""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3485 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
As Dennis says above, rather than advertise, we spend our mney on marketing.
For us, money spent promoting our business also must leave a legacy. Our primary marketing tool is our shop and studio. There's no doubt of where we are located, or what we do for a living for anyone who drives by our place. Anyone who visits can't wait to tell their friends and aquaintances about the magic and imagination found both inside and outside the building.
Our shop truck is a valuable tool for marketing, with the gold leaf lettering and catch logo.
Our web site is very valuable, and promoted on our vehicle, and business stationary.
Our statonary is classy and eye catchting. Our clothes have our logo stitched of screened on them and I know people notice.
Word of mouth is extremely valuable. By putting nothing but our very best and most outrageous and imaginative work out the door there's no a single job we sell which doesn't advertise our business. People simply can't get work like ours in many other places.
Marketing is a strategy, it doesn't happen by chance.
-grampa dan
-------------------- Dan Sawatzky Imagination Corporation Yarrow, British Columbia dan@imaginationcorporation.com http://www.imaginationcorporation.com
Being a grampa is one of the the most wonderful things in the world!!! Posts: 8738 | From: Yarrow, B.C. Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Advertising is one thing, but promoting is another!
Promoting doesn't even have to cost any money, and the money you might put into it is minimal compared to the returns it brings.
You're better off printing up some slick literature, business cards and portfolio work you can show IN PERSON. You can also take that advertising budget and invest it into real paying jobs that you go above and beyond what's expected, in return for the customer acting as a shill for you! Shoot, if the job is really impressive they won't even have to try to talk it up, people will flock to ask them where they got it.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
I'm very particular about what kind of signs I do and extremely selective towards who I want as customers.
That is why I prefer direct mail. Once I choose who I want to target and the offer that I want to make, I sit down to create my sales letter(s).
The letters that I write have big, bold headlines, an offer, a guarantee, and several testimonials.
I believe the key to direct mail is a lot of testing and the use of sequential mailings. (for instance: mail a second letter 14 days after your first, and a third 7-14 days after your second letter. And if you're still getting response, maybe a final notice with a postcard.)
Nobody stands around the mailbox waiting for my junk mail. That is why I feel sequential mailings have worked for me in the past.
And because I mail several letters to one person, it is not practical for me to use fancy full color brochures. I'm not saying they don't work, but I am saying it can get pretty expensive.
-------------------- Great White Signs Logan, Ohio
"All signs now come with new and improved vinyl." jimw@1067wwtl.com Posts: 53 | From: Logan, Ohio | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
I'm with Bill, no need if you're working 8 hours a day, 6 days a week. OK, I'm not there now, but was at one time back then. All I did to "advertise" was to make sure a few things happened,for instance: always have a vehicle that is done well to show off talents firsthand; always show yourself publically in a presentable fashion, ragged jeans and dirt turn off prospective clients; always speak well of others in public, ppl. put a lot of weight in that rule; be fair in price; always do your best work and to ensure all that, put your name and info on a business card and with the mindset of Pallidin, become the card slingn'est painter in town. Never disrespect your work or industry in front of clients. Of course all of these tips(rules in my world) will only work if you do, you don't fit the bill, you will fall alongside of the path at some point, along with all the other losers that quit early because it was too hard or whatever. So, who needs to advertise? In some form or other, we all do!!! Even Bill, his work is his ad.
-------------------- Frank Magoo, Magoo's-Las Vegas; fmagoo@netzero.com "the only easy day was yesterday" Posts: 2365 | From: Las Vegas, Nv. | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
I guess my last answer, while true, was a bit on the blunt side.
For anyone interested that doesn't know me, I am getting on in years and well into "senior citizenhood." I don't want to work 8/day, and 7/week. A few hours a day,and a few days a week is all I want or need.
I've also cut back on what I want to do---mostly trucks and boats---anything where the surface is already there, and no ditzling around in panel prep work.
In a lot of ways, I'm the old guy with a brush and a plotter working out of the house that many of the "real" shops hate. It is not safe to assume that because of low overhead, that I will give the work away, or that this is a hobby that will cut into a "real" shop's business.
The truck is lettered, and I do have biz cards---but that's it.
bill preston
-------------------- Bill Preston Fly Creek, N.Y. USA Posts: 943 | From: Fly Creek, N.Y. USA | Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
I just noticed no sign babes have replied on this post . . .
I was going to type the exact same reply as Bill . . .
Simply 'No.'
If ya wanna know why . . . I used to have my truck lettered but I was constantly gettin' stopped by people who really were'nt interested in any real signage . . ."Can you paint me a car tag?" How do you honestly answer this in one sentence or less??
While I WILL knock out a custom car tag for certian people, I don't wanna be stopped 3 times at the grocery store being asked stuff like this, or spend fifteen minutes feilding questions or trying to give a politely explanitory answer to the $64,000 dollar question: "How much is a sign?"
I have never thought yellow page ads were in any way valuable, even before I came to Letterville, where I've heard real, sensible reasons pro & con, common sense made me use what my own customers were spending on yellow page ads to sell them real advertising value in the form of a sign .
I have found that business cards, truck signs, or being out in public in general, is a huge invasion on my privavcy, LOL.
The first little rather tacky business cards I gave out were to people who obviously needed a new sign. Business and word of mouth took off after that and now, right at 15 years later, I have about a 75% + repeat base.
WHAT I WOULD HAVE DONE DIFFERENT: If I could start all over again, I still would not spend much money advertising, but I would do much nicer business cards. Not the truck, because you still get stopped by the 'curious', and I WOULD only seek higher end jobs and establish myself right-off-the-bat as hi-end stuff.
At the time, I took what I could get because I was tryin' to get off government assistance without workin' at McD's & Sears. I was happy because I was makin' 3 or 4 times what I could have made on regular jobs.
Now I realize that those first 4 or 5 years of 'getting ahead' and 'doing well' could have been even better and by now I'd be doing much more hi-end work than I do now, but I set a 'precedence' that has been hard to change. Now the only way out of it is going to be increasing prices so that I cull out the average stuff and in the meantime, create hi-end samples and probably build a show room.
Bottom line: Word of mouth has been my best and most fruitful advertising especially among the hi-end customers...turns out people with taste & money hang together.
-------------------- Signs Sweet Home Alabama
oneshot on chat
"Look like a girl, act like a lady, think like a man, work like a dog" Posts: 5758 | From: "Sweet Home" Alabama | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
Word of mouth is our best way to get business. We have done Chamber of Com. before and after events, local business trade shows, and phone book. Nothing generated
The best by far, in our experience, has been our membership in BNI. ( www.bni.com ) Our group has 35 members, all are viewed as my alternate sales team.
In return, I keep my ears and eyes focused on selling their product by talking to my customers and asking questions like how they handle credit card, cell phones, insurance, mortgage issues and curent rates, and the other 30 represented businesses. In fact, I try to get my clients to come to our weekly meetings just to see how it works.
Just this last week, we did a trade show, a bridal trade show where we took all of our wonderful backdrops we created for our daughter's wedding. Didn't get a bite!
I had a substitute sit in for me at the BNI meeting and she returned with two referrals. 1st referral was two truck letterings by a company visiting the group, and the 2nd referral was from a current BNI member who sells garment lettering and ad specialties.
As he was selling his products to the Presbeterian church, he noticed they needed a monument sign and set up an appointment for me to meet with them.
I was floored! It doesn't get any better than that.
The two truck letterings alone will more than pay for my 1 year membership investment, and if I get the monument sign job, wow!
posted
A lot of good advice here. Myself, I never found any advertising to pay off at all. BUT, I also am one that believes in there are different markets in different locations. I'm a firm believer in what works in New England is not necessarily going to work in the Mid West or wherever Sure a lot of places will be receptive to high end sign work and then some just aren't. Same goes for pricing, yea, you might be able to get those high dollar prices, then again ya might not. You never know til you try.
My point here is what works or doesn't work in California, Florida, New York or wherever really has little bearing on what's gonna work in Clinton, Ar. I've never been through Clinton itself but I'm familiar with a lot of towns over there like Batesville, Conway and the like. They are all little seperate entities. Would a radio or newspaper ad work??? Who knows. I ran an ad for a few months in the Millington papers years ago when I had a commercial shop. It brought in nothing. That does not mean that it wouldn't work in Clinton though. We have had the Yellow Page discussions on here many times. The majority will tell you they are a complete waste, I agree, yet there are always a few that say the Yellow Page ads are indespensible? Go figure. What it comes down to is only Barry is gonna be able to tell what works in Clinton.
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
Word of mouth is advertising, so is a good job done for a customer, so is a nicely lettered shop van, so is your name on the bottom of a sign.
Every job you do is an advertisement for you. So in a sense, everyone advertises.
"Do you spend money on adverts in other publications or media" - well that's a different question, & is all relative.
$50 spent on an advert that brings in NO work is expensive. $1000 spent on an ad that brings in $25000 is cheap. It is all relative to productivity.
As well, you can't necessarily blame a poor response on the media itself, without looking at whether there may have been better designs, placement, options, wording, and WHETHER YOU TARGETED THE CORRECT MARKET via that media. (sorry about the caps, but targeting the right market is what is is about.)
back to work for me now...best wishes !
-------------------- "Stewey" on chat
"...there are no limits when you aim for perfection..." Jonathan Livingston Seagull Posts: 7014 | From: Highgrove via Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia | Registered: Dec 2002
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posted
Interesting discussion - and many good comments above.
Maybe this will provide some food for thought...or will earn me a good flaming.
"I tried it once and it didn't work for me" usually suggests that very little effort went into targetting an audience, message development, media selection, or designing for the chosen media.
Just as with sign design, there are "rules" for all forms of advertising; proven principles that most people break...without ever having made any significant effort to learn. Ironically, when their advertising fails to produce results, or produces undesireable results, they wonder why...and almost inevitably blame the media.
For example, a common theme in Letterville is that "Yellow pages only ever brought me tire-kickers".
Really?
Was it really Yellow Pages that brought you tire-kickers, or was it your ad's message that attracted them?
While there is some debate as to whether or not Yellow Pages is a waste of money; no-one can argue that paying for YP advertising without a clear understanding of how to make the medium work for you isn't. A YP salesrep who understands this and who can provide or refer his/her customers to expert guidance should be highly successful. The same holds true for anyone selling signs, of course, but I digress.
There is no doubt that your own work - the quality and effectiveness of your design, products and customer service - will serve as your most effective advertising. This is what leads to referals, of course. But does it provide you with the growth your business needs, in order to achieve your long-term goals?
-------------------- Jon Aston MARKETING PARTNERS "Strategy, Marketing and Business Development" Tel 705-719-9209 Posts: 1724 | From: Barrie, ON, CANADA | Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
Maybe be more direct in your yellow pages. Add something like this:
If your shopping for price, we are not for you...If you want good value and personal service stop here, you can trust us...Serving "---------" for over "--" years.
or
"A good sign will make you money...a sign paid for from Petty Cash will cost you money."
posted
Another suggestion I don't see here is occaissionally changing your adverstising,....seems people get accustomed to things they see day after day and tend to not notice it as much,....advertising has to catch the attention of the viewer,...many times I have seen signage for other shops in my travels that looked great when they were first done,...but after seeing them over and over in repeated passes,.I tend to notice them less and less,...as tho the initial excitement dwindles somewhat,sometimes all it takes is something new to catch the eye and keep you in the customers mind,....what worked before may just work again,......
-------------------- fly low...timi/NC is, Tim Barrow Barrow Art Signs Winston-Salem,NC Posts: 2224 | From: Winston-Salem,NC,USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Jon, this isn't going to be a flaming---just coming at the question of advertising from a different point of view.
For about half of my working career, signwork was only a secondary way of adding some $ to the household income. There never was any desire to increase business, or for that matter any long-term goals. In more recent years, it still is only an adjunct to my SS and retirement from my "real" job.
Nowadays, I have the option of being way more selective in what I will take on, and to some extent, who I will work for. Call it niche work, for want of a better term.
I will admit that my wife and I live a little close to the wire, but the bills do get paid, and we don't owe much of anything to anybody. Would I like to have more $ in the bank? Sure, and maybe with better planning earlier in life, we would have. But all in all, it's been a good ride, and still is. There is not a lot I would change.
bill preston
-------------------- Bill Preston Fly Creek, N.Y. USA Posts: 943 | From: Fly Creek, N.Y. USA | Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
My 2 cents: We just got back from a week of training at our corporate office. One of the things we discussed is the decreasing effectiveness of traditional yellow page advertising. It seems that all of our franchisees see a trend of less and less business from yellow pages. We will be significantly trimming ours down this year and putting the money into other marketing methods. We are opening our new store at the end of Feb. Volunteers needed for the move and set up, LOL.
-------------------- Ricky Jackson Signs Now 614 Russell Parkway Warner Robins, GA (478) 923-7722 signpimp50@hotmail.com
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Sir Issac Newton Posts: 3528 | From: Warner Robins, GA | Registered: Oct 2004
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