posted
Is there an easy way to vectorize files in CorelDraw. In the tutorial there is a vector to bitmap but not the other way around. Also are all vector images plotable (made that word up)? We have a Co-Pam plotter (Roland Knock-off). I can make my own files/images and no problem but almost anyone elses files I beat my head agianst the wall for hours before I get any results. Please help, Thanks C & B
posted
To cut, you must have a vector file. You can make the bitmaps into vectors by tracing them in corel trace. But only under certain circumstances will it be successfull. There are tutorials all over the web to do this. Its best to buy vector art if you are a beginner. Good luck.
-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5274 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
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You will usually get vector files in the same few formats (.ai .eps .cdr) & should be able to send these to your plotter with little trouble. Other vector files like .wmf or .dxf or sometimes .pdf should also be useable after importing into Corel or other cutting programs, but this is not always true.
This is probably too obvious to mention, but if you buy vector artwork collections, be sure the intersecting lines are not left in the artwork. For example, I borrowed this image from VECTORART's website:
I run across a lot of vector art supplied by clients that are far from cut-ready. There are strokes assigned to fatten up contours, or add second colors, but not yet cuttable. Or one color on top of another without the work to knock out the missing areas beneath or white patches to hide things. Not too difficult to fix usually, some harder then others, but you need to warn them this "vector" art will still require work & will cost them. I often print the before & after wireframes if I think they need to see where their art fee went.
[ January 03, 2005, 01:33 PM: Message edited by: Doug Allan ]
-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5274 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
We use Adobe Streamline - a not-so-easy-to-find bitmap to vector trace program that has no equal in our experience. CorelTrace sucks. Streamline works great and is easily adjustable. You STILL need fairly good artwork to begin with. Software is only as good as the image - but Streamline will fit well for you.
I think it is around $100.00 - but guess what? I found a download link that is probably free (cut and paste the link below). That's a great price - but I paid for mine. You do what you think is right.
posted
Belinda...I wouldn't go as far as Jay, saying that CorelTrace sux. But Trace programs ARE limited by what they are asked to trace.
I use CorelTrace, and by playing around with settings can usually get an almost acceptable result. There isn't one setting that works for every situation. However, any trace will usually require "tweaking" to make it usable.
I find that in most cases it is easier to bring the bitmap into CorelDraw and then manually draw over top of the bitmap.
Either way you do it, it will require work on your part and that work should be figured into the cost of doing the job.
To answer your initial question specifically, there really isn't an EASY way to do it properly. But then if doing it was easy you wouldn't be able to charge those extra bux to do things properly!
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
posted
Vectorizing works best in 80 degree weather , heh Dave!
-------------------- Mario G. Lafreniere (Fergie) J&N Signs Winter did show up! Posts: 1257 | From: Chapleau, Ontario | Registered: Jun 1999
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posted
Jay,...I also have used Adobe Streamline for a few years now and also believe it far surpasses CorelTrace...with the least amount of cleanup and tweaking.
I think my version is older and limited on what bitmap file types it will accept. Once one figures out the resolution settings for the quality of the bitmap conversion, it becomes quick and easy and highly plottable....and most importantly, it's highly reliable about closing nodes on "loops"....also good for exporting .ai & .eps files....
It's always my fix for eps files (from marketing agencies) that fall apart from mac to pc conversion, designers not knowing sign stuff, and such...I've learned to ask for jpegs as part of the artwork supplied on jobs.
I use coreltrace for simple curvey stuff, but like Dave, I do alot of over-drawing on bitmaps to make plotting smoother and faster.
Jay, thanks for the link,..do you know of a place to purchase upgrade CD versions?
[ January 03, 2005, 10:53 PM: Message edited by: Jimmy Goines ]
-------------------- Jimmy Goines Goines Signs Register, GA Posts: 25 | From: low country | Registered: Dec 2004
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posted
OK guys, this is a topic that is dear to me, maybe I should start a new thread, but a few questions:
Would I be better off buying this Adobe Streamline, or one of those 'draw pad thingies'?
Do the draw pads draw in vector or raster?
I have somewhat of an ability to illustrate, and adding a piece of custom clipart to a job sure adds alot of punch. So I need a qiuck way of doing this. I spent a half hour today at the sign supply place looking through a Mega Vector Art book, but there wasn't anything in there that would have worked on my last two jobs.
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
James, I was searching posts I had contributed on with the word "wacom" in them. I thought I had posted an image showing the difference in 2 wireframe views of artwork vectorized from a scan VS. redrawn on a tablet. I couldn't fine the image but found this quote describing my experience:
quote: I have the small Wacom tablet & I use it in Illustrator occassionally to trace artwork slipped under the clear overleaf. I have scanned a clean line drawing & vectorized for cutting out of vinyl. If I look at it in wireframe, the curves are often almost solid rows of nodes making it time consuming to clean it up & also making it take 10 times longer to cut.
The same artwork traced on the wacom will give me clean curves as nice as my own pencil steering ability can achieve with 5% as many nodes. Using the pencil tool, no special click/drag manipulation is required, just draw & end up with clean lines, easily editable nodes & optimum results for fast plotter speeds.
I don't use the tablet for much else, & use it less then once a month, but for the task described it has paid for itself easily & being so small, I leave it under the mouse pad & it is never in the way, but always handy.
On clients art where you have to trace before you can scan (or on your own original art)the tablet will often be an advantage. Some artwork that you get semi-camera-ready will produce acceptable results in Streamline far quicker then the tracing process. If "acceptable" is not good enough, or where multiple cuts emphasize the value in faster cutting time, the tablet may still be the better solution, but in my experience I use Streamline 10 times more often then my tablet for this type of work.
posted
James, you already have Corel Draw, you mentioned in a post last month, & were given advice on tracing.
Using tracing software isn't the nightmare some people think, but if you've never done it at all, any program will look like Greek to you. Buying Adobe Streamline or a Wacom tablet might help, but it'll still be a learning curve you need to get past, whatever program you choose to use.
quote: Would I be better off buying this Adobe Streamline, or one of those 'draw pad thingies'?
Neither, just yet. I'd suggest you save your money for the moment & go back to Corel and tinker with "Corel Trace" till you get a bitmap or a jpg vectorised, and can work out the limitations. Once you CAN do it, you can make some choices & pick your favourite program.
Don't take this as criticism, but it seems from reading between the lines that you haven't got Corel Trace to work at all, yet, or have you?
(Personally, I prefer Streamline too, over Trace, but I like Flexi's tracing ability even better, but again, like Dave says, it's often not much harder to hand draw over an imported photo, once you're familiar with node editing tools, and if you aren't, then that practice is worth getting into someday & the sooner the better- just do it!)
Check out some of the tutorials, & Dave Grundy's instructions which were in a post also sometime in the past month. Corel's own instructions on the use of Corel Trace are just a trace themselves!
"Do those draw pads draw in vector or raster ?"
Essentially, they are a glorified mouse, shaped like a pen, with extra features such as pressure sensitivity, etc. They do whatever you would normally do with a mouse in whatever program you are using- drag & drop, click, double-click, start, shutdown, save, open, and in a bitmap editing program like say Paint Shop Pro, Photoshop, or Corel Photopaint, they draw in pixels. In a vector program like Corel, Illustrator, etc, just as you would use a mouse, they draw in lines/vectors. You just have the ability to see where the point is, like a pen, while a mouse's ball is hidden somewhere under it's belly
[ January 04, 2005, 04:54 AM: Message edited by: Ian Stewart-Koster ]
-------------------- "Stewey" on chat
"...there are no limits when you aim for perfection..." Jonathan Livingston Seagull Posts: 7014 | From: Highgrove via Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia | Registered: Dec 2002
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posted
I have used a tablet and stylus for years. Several different models...my present one is a Cross.
On the largest percentage of files, I find it easier to trace manually in Corel with the stylus and tablet...so much easier than the mouse and you have more precise control.
I use it with Corel, but have used Illustrator, Canvas and several other Mac and PC programs. Import your bitmap into CorelDraw, then "lock object"...this prevents you from dragging the bitmap around accidently while digitizing.
I use my tablet for a mouse pad, on the few occasions I use a mouse, which is on start up in XP Pro.
-------------------- Rove Gratz Gratz Signs 342 Walden Station Drive Macon, GA 31216 rovegratz@aol.com Home Page: http://rove-342.tripod.com Posts: 861 | From: Macon, GA 31216 | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
Interesting Rove. For some reason I never tried tracing around a bitmap on the screen with the tablet. I've only used it tracing the original hardcopy under the clear overlay sheet on the tablet where I can follow the stylus directly with my eye. Since tracing with a mouse while watching the monitor was always so difficult, I hadn't even tried it with the tablet. Using the tablet & stylus for all the routine mousing around is another interesting thought. Hmmmm...
posted
Thanks guys I am glad it's not just me not getting it. I am greatfull for the advise and for being able to draw on all of your collective experience.
posted
If you have the Corel suite, don't forget Photo-Paint. You can enhance the bitmap shapes you want to cut, for instance change some colors, so that Trace can find them more easily.
-------------------- Bruce Williams Lexington KY Posts: 945 | From: Lexington, KY, USA | Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
I'm with Rove here on this one,...nothing can really compare to the detail you can get with a tablet and the bitmap on screen with corel,.....Makes for easy changes in a design also if you want to tweak something that was drawn and not quite what ya wanted in the first place in bitmap editors.
-------------------- fly low...timi/NC is, Tim Barrow Barrow Art Signs Winston-Salem,NC Posts: 2224 | From: Winston-Salem,NC,USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Ian, thanks for the info, but I do use Corel. I've even managed to get some artwork scanned and auto traced with minimal nodes and cleanup (compared to a messy job). But speed is esential. Even with my limited experience, I can see beyond the learning curve, and the economic feasiblity is limited. I'm not dealing with artwork that people have handed me. In that case, the service charge for preparing their artwork would be more understandable to the client. Where I'm at, there's a plotter under every rock. What I try to sell is something a little different. A clean, simple one color bit of artwork really fits the ticket in many cases. For years I've done this with brushes, or cut and roll/spray. What I need is to be able to draw, scan, trace, and node edit a piece of artwork in less time than it takes to do the same thing by hand. I figure less time because I still have to plot, weed, and transfer it. Of course, if the client has numerous trucks or signs to be done, it can be much faster than doing it by hand. But for the client that might not order another sign for awhile, that's where the speed will make or break the vectorizing operation. I've already done a horse head with briddle that I'm pleased with. The advantages to having it stored as a vector image are obvious. One advantage is being able to share it with friends, you want a copy? I thinka you will like-a. Like I said before, I do have limited experience, but from where I'm at now, when it comes to vectorizing, speed speeed speed, it's what I need need need!
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
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You DO have a complete fully paid for version of Corel don't you???
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
you're gonna expose me for the lowly character that I really am.
Actually this just verifies what I was saying before, you know the part about "lack of experience". If I recall, I did go back to the CD and made sure the 'ocr trace' or whatever it's called was installed, I even made it an icon on my desktop. Seems like (I could be wrong) the program opens up Corel photoshop. I'll go back to it to see if that's true, if so, does this leave me with a vector outline?
I should just shut up and go investigate.
Thanks Dave.
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
OK so I went and looked. When I click on the icon, it shows a bunch of 'DAT' files. I clicked on one, and it asked me how I wanted to open it. I chose Corel draw, but now they all show that little baloon emblem next to them, and most show an error message when I try to open them.
Edit: After looking at it some more, it appears those files are old deleted files that were on there from the guy that gave me this computer. He left Corel 8 on it, and gave me the CD, as he uses a newer version now.
I was able to right click on one of the files and up comes a page, like the Corel page, only this one has a dotted line around it, and some little (dos?) writing along the top edge. I imported a file I had previously scanned, and clicked on the bezier tool to do like I would for auto trace, and it did do a trace. But it looks alot like an auto trace. Am I by any chance in Corel trace, or still in auto trace? Maybe I put the wrong thing on my desktop, and I need to access Corel trace some other way.
[ January 05, 2005, 02:18 AM: Message edited by: James Donahue ]
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
James ... "Corel Trace" is a separate program altogether from "Corel Draw", which is a separate program from "Corel Photopaint", except that they all come from the Corel company, and are on an original disc/set of discs that comes with "Corel Draw".
You have to install "Corel Trace" from the CD. Just because you have Draw already installed, and/or Photopaint, doesn't mean you have installed "Corel Trace". There are a stack of programs on the Corel Draw intstallation discs, and most are NOT automatically installed at all. Font Nav (by Bitstream) is another great one which is there in the Corel Draw discs.
Autotrace in Corel Draw, is NOT Corel Trace. Autotrace in Corel Draw, is NOT Corel Trace. Autotrace in Corel Draw, is NOT Corel Trace.
I thought you understood all that from the other post last month? (no sarcasm intended)
With Corel Trace installed, you will figure out the vectorising routine.
quote: Am I by any chance in Corel trace, or still in auto trace?
You have to start Corel Trace via a desktop shortcut, or via start>programs>Corel>Trace or something similar. Corel Draw doesn't have to be on your computer at all for Corel Trace to work. (I'll stand corrected there, but I manage with the updated version 7 & it's on that CD OK. I just don't have it on this computer)
When you're in Corel Trace, you'll know it & won't need to ask!
Good luck!
[ January 05, 2005, 03:53 AM: Message edited by: Ian Stewart-Koster ]
-------------------- "Stewey" on chat
"...there are no limits when you aim for perfection..." Jonathan Livingston Seagull Posts: 7014 | From: Highgrove via Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia | Registered: Dec 2002
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posted
James, the OCR Trace you mentioned is not what you want to use to trace bitmaps.
OCR, stands for "Optical Character Recognition", which is what you want to use to trace bitmaps of text. This, depending on the quality of the scanned material, actually converts it to text.
On the toolbar at the top of CorelDraw, there is a button.....Application Launcher.....If you click on this button and you have Corel Trace loaded, you should be able to open it from there.
-------------------- Rove Gratz Gratz Signs 342 Walden Station Drive Macon, GA 31216 rovegratz@aol.com Home Page: http://rove-342.tripod.com Posts: 861 | From: Macon, GA 31216 | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
The confusion was between Ocr trace and Corel trace. I looked on the CD and figured that's what they must be talking about.
I just went back to the CD, and there appears to be no "Corel trace" on there, I looked rather thoroughly.
So....as long as I'm considering some software, how does "freehand" compare to "Corel trace"?
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
Now that I think about it, Ian is right, I was confusing auto trace with Corel trace, but it's been a roundabout process. "About a month ago" I put the Ocr trace on my desktop. It didn't seem to be what I wanted, so I left it alone. In the meantime, I went back to autotrace, and lost the distinction.
Thanks guys for your help, I know I've pushed you to the point of forming a Lettervile posse and commiting me to a home for the criminaly ignorant. But remember, patience is a virtue!!!!
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
I just got the new Graphics Unleashed Newsletter.
They have a Tutorial, Bitmap Logos to Vector, offered for $7 in PDF format. This should be a lot of help for some of the newer Corel users and probably the techniques would be useful for other graphics software users.
posted
Like I really need to ADD to the list of people I've annoyed...but...
Ocr trace IS Corel trace! (as far as I can tell). Sorry to disagree with Rovelle.
More of the amazing adventures of Jim the wanna be tracin' guy:
Somehow, "about a month ago" when I put the Ocr trace icon on my desktop, I had put what opened up as a bunch of files. So, when I looked in application launcher, I ASSUMED that the icon there would take me to the same place.
But after looking over the Corel CD, and alot of "help" tips, they all said the same thing: Ocr trace is where you trace a raster to a vector.
So just for grins, I went to the application launcher (thanks Rove & Si) and clicked on Ocr trace. Loan behold (bank billboard copy) there was a trace program. I pulled up a somewhat complex drawing I had previously scanned, and traced it.
Bingo! A nice vector. I'm tellin' ya folks, Ocr trace Is Corel trace (I think? )
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
I've used corel draw since version 3. I looked back to Corel version 6 and found this
* Corel OCR-TRACE™: An enhanced optical character recognition/raster to vector conversion utility.
I can see where the confusion is comming from. I would gues very few really called corel trace by the term "OCR Trace".
When the icon is used to start tracing.. it comes up as CorelTRACE..
-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5274 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
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quote:the guy that gave me this computer. He left Corel 8 on it, and gave me the CD, as he uses a newer version now.
James... I used to be a lowly charater too... but one day I called up Corel & told them "someone gave me Corel 8 & the CD's... Do I need the former owner to sign a transfer of ownership document to become a licensed owner?"
They said no, just buy the upgrade for $149 & you will become a licensed owner!
So I got my legal copy that way. It was worth it just for the fonts & the convenient font & clip-art book (& thats almost all I do with it, & open the rare client CDR file)
posted
James...in all versions of Corel that I have, CorelTrace is called CorelTrace.
OCR is one of the options of trace. If you use OCR to trace a bitmap of text that is of good quality you will get text.
If you trace a bitmap of text that is poor quality, you will get a vector shape. If you trace any bitmap using OCR, you can end up with a vector file, but the other trace options are best unless you are tracing bitmaps of text.
If you are going to town, you can take a bus, a taxi, a horse and buggy or your own truck or car. Those are all options to the same end.
-------------------- Rove Gratz Gratz Signs 342 Walden Station Drive Macon, GA 31216 rovegratz@aol.com Home Page: http://rove-342.tripod.com Posts: 861 | From: Macon, GA 31216 | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
Sorry to contradict you Tim and James, but at least on my Versions 9, 11 and 12 it is still CorelTrace. I'm just trying to help with something I know. I did notice that OCR Trace is not an option in either version, but my scanner has the OCR option.
Do you have some kind of foreign software?
-------------------- Rove Gratz Gratz Signs 342 Walden Station Drive Macon, GA 31216 rovegratz@aol.com Home Page: http://rove-342.tripod.com Posts: 861 | From: Macon, GA 31216 | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
I stand corrected Rove,..my mistake,..seems for some odd reason it is called Corel OCR Trace in one of my versions of 7,or 8..think it's select,... either way I use 7 alot for for most of the design work I do and the name just stuck in my head, for some odd reason,..either way they are basically the same program. I've seen it named both ways in different installs here,..but in the end it is the same. Up to ver 11 here and started with version 1.1 way back when,....some times the way they change stuff it gets very confusing,....nuther brain fart here,...
edited to add,...just went and checked and sure enough James is right,..it is named Corel OCR Trace in a couple of my versions of 7 & 8 . Along the way I have accumulated more than one version of both 7 and 8,..In one version of 7 it is called ocr trace and in another it is called Coreltrace,....one is corel select the other is the full graphics package,...seems I bought the select version and found out it didn't come with all the import/ export filters and went back and got the full package later for some reason,...but I distinctly remember because it seemed odd to me why they would rename the same basic program.
posted
OCR-Trace is the name of the program in Corel 8. When you bring a bitmap into it, you have the option of either OCR or Trace. To vectorize sign art, you'd probably choose Trace. The OCR function (Objet/Character Recognition) works well for text, but that's a different story.
-------------------- Bruce Williams Lexington KY Posts: 945 | From: Lexington, KY, USA | Registered: Mar 1999
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