Next week I'll be bidding on a wall job, about 11.5 feet (3 meters?)high by 32 feet (10 meters?) long. It will be on corrugated metal.
Tonight my brother in law came by, and said "I've got something for you." He was a Wal Mart, where they're closing out these laser levels. They're kinda short, less than 2 feet (60cm) long. But what's REALLY interesting is how the laser part works. It has two modes/functions. One of course is the red dot deal, the other is this big red cross. It projects two intersecting lines, just like the crosshairs of a rifle scope, but the lines are on whatever surface you point this thing at.
So I was thinkin' see, not only would it help alot with layout, but having a straight line projected across an irregular surface has got to be one of the coolest things I've come across in awhile. You know how it is, where a ruler won't lay flat and you're giving it your best proffessional guess as to where to draw/paint the line.
Anyway, I'm looking foward to it. Leave the price the same, but get the job done quicker! Life could be worse.
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
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I think that has possibilities! only used a laser level once, recently applying vinyl to an interior wall, worked Better than Cool!
John
-------------------- John Lennig / Big Top Sign Arts 5668 Ewart Street, Burnaby, British Columbia, Canada bigtopya@hotmail.com 604.451.0006 Posts: 2184 | From: Burnaby, British Columbia,Canada | Registered: Nov 2001
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James, I got one of those back in June $19.95 on special. In theory it's good. In practice, from a distance in daylight, the lines are HARD to find. You'd need to set it up and get your lines in dusk-type lighting.
The tripod that came with it is a case of getting what you pay for- it takes a fair while to get it perfectly level. Then in theory you can rotate it on the tripod, but I don't reccommend that. Get it right and fix it still, or you can be out of level by a whisker which gets magnified as you go further away.
I've gone back to using a chalk/string line, with a little line level if necessary, or just a tape measure to get both ends right & snap the line between them. On corrugated iron, most people aren't going to be too critical about the levelness of the line in the valleys, which you can pencil in if you can't guess it well enough.
I like the little laser, and it's a handy marker for different things, but in broad daylight, it's not a breeze to use. Set-up time can drag on.
Happy new year!
PE edit to add I use a floppy bit of 2" wide thin cardboard about 2 feet long which can be pushed into the valleys or corrugations, if you need a dead continuous line across several of them. Pencil the edge in.
[ January 01, 2005, 12:14 AM: Message edited by: Ian Stewart-Koster ]
-------------------- "Stewey" on chat
"...there are no limits when you aim for perfection..." Jonathan Livingston Seagull Posts: 7014 | From: Highgrove via Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia | Registered: Dec 2002
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i bought one...great in the DARK!!!! its like the picture projector they sell in POPULAR MECHANICS for $19.95......i bought one, and the wife had a dark room...an you still couldnt see an image from it!!!!!! big job like that CHALK LINE IT!!!!it will hit the high spots....and you just connect the high spots...in the valley!!!!
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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I do have some questions about it though. The level has this metal base and the hole the light projects from is maybe 3/8" up on the end from the baseline. If the light shoots straight, why isn't the red spot 3/8" up from level? Otherwise, there is this triangle created and the spot would be higher than level up to some calibrated distance and then it would be lower than level. Anyone understand how it knows?
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6714 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Also, here's a corrugated wall tip that I was taught when an apprentice....
If you look at a horizontal line on a vertical corrugated wall, the line is not straight. The recesses will look higher depending on the depth of the corrugation and the angle it is viewed from. We learned to drop the line in the recesses so it looks straight. If you run some masking tape you can drop it in the deeper places and get down and look to determine how much offset is required to create the illusion of straight.
We also learned that some letter styles are more condusive to this type of job than others.
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6714 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Our one looks more like a standard 2 ft spirit level, but with the laser inside, and parallel to the top, but 3/8 of an inch down.
-------------------- "Stewey" on chat
"...there are no limits when you aim for perfection..." Jonathan Livingston Seagull Posts: 7014 | From: Highgrove via Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia | Registered: Dec 2002
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Rick, that is a cool tip. As I sit here, I wonder if the laser wouldn't do the same thing if I angled it up from the normal viewing angle.
I too wondered about the hole-is-higher-than-the-bottom issue. I'm not as concerned with it on this job, because I'm mostly using it for a straight line.
Ian, buddy, remember that it's winter (sorta) here. The days are shorter, and some are overcast. I was planning on making some of the marks and lines the evening before I painted. And another thing, I go through all this trouble straining my redneck mind to include some metric measurements, and you keep talking like you guys still use our measurements. What gives?
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
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Rick, buttin' in on the ribbed wall layout tip...
The same layout principle also applies very well for layout when installing plastic or metal letters on a commercial rib metal wall.... I've found that it indeed helps placing the "round letters" so that the whole line of copy appears horizontally level.
It's like fine tuning viewer perspective, the painter's quality that not many viewers realize.
I have experienced painting big letters and such on corrugated metal walls... I, humbly bow in admiration of corrugated walldogs!!!... My customers always flinch about the cost for me to paint such walls....
-------------------- Jimmy Goines Goines Signs Register, GA Posts: 25 | From: low country | Registered: Dec 2004
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James/Jim, I can & do work in both metric & imperial as precicely or roughly as needed. When you get used to it, it's no big deal.
You go up to an old billboard and measure it, and it's 3660 mm long, so it's easier to remember 12 feet. It's 2440 mm high, which is 8 feet. Don't forget it either!
You have to reclad it, but some material only comes in 1200 x 2400 mm sheets, which is a metricated 8 x 4 ft board, (so you whack a quick frame around the edge) while other manufacturers will give you a 1220 x 2440 sheet, the true 8x4, when you only wanted a 1200 x 2400, so you fold the edges back, or cut the excess off.
Steel here comes in true metric sizes 10, 12, 20, 25, 32, 40, 50, 65, 65mm etc, which are metricated versions of 3/8. 1/2. 3/4. 1". 1 1/4". 1 1/2". 2" 2 1/2". It's the same with timber. It's easier to carry the inch equivalents in your head than remembering every last millimetre when you're just going to the rack to find a piece of wood or bar.
As a country, Australia is metric, with a decimal currency. But the remnants of the imperial system lingers. Try restoring an old house and finding the new wall sheets are just too short... the building industry accommodates both ends of the scale, except for the 3 ft sizes- almost all are 900mm exactly.
With the horse drawn vehicle fixing I've done, you need to work in both as old metal fittings will be in the true inch sizes, while modern made up bits will be the truncated metric equivalents, and you have to fit timber, sympathetically, to both bits.
Common drill bits, and bolts here are all in imperial fraction sizes, with whitworth threads. If architects specify metric, which they do, you have to pay extra for them!
It's really no big deal, unless you get caught presuming the wrong measurement and make the sign too small or too big, then you learn the hard way to make a note of whether the size has to be precise, or can be the closest of either version.
Hope that helps
[ January 02, 2005, 12:12 AM: Message edited by: Ian Stewart-Koster ]
-------------------- "Stewey" on chat
"...there are no limits when you aim for perfection..." Jonathan Livingston Seagull Posts: 7014 | From: Highgrove via Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia | Registered: Dec 2002
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hey, Ian, I grew up by inches and have spent the rest of my life learning conversions to metric and back. This was especially enhanced by computer literacy....
Nowdays, I do all my computer art and layouts and plottings using decimals & metrics and when it comes to applications and fabrications, I'm totally stuck on inch measures.... Like you said, once learned, it ain't no big deal except when it comes to memory of the difference...
Go figure that?.....Jimmy
-------------------- Jimmy Goines Goines Signs Register, GA Posts: 25 | From: low country | Registered: Dec 2004
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Ian, thanks for the info. That's real interesting. I hope I didn't sound too sarcastic before.
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
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Jimmy & James- thanks for the replies! I hope I didn't sound like I was boasting either!
It's all about as simple as tracing & vectorising bitmaps or jpgs when you get the hang of it, James ~!
-------------------- "Stewey" on chat
"...there are no limits when you aim for perfection..." Jonathan Livingston Seagull Posts: 7014 | From: Highgrove via Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia | Registered: Dec 2002
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Rick>>> The laser on these levels is not a "pin- point" kind. Picture the laser as a fan, thats how its able to go around corners.
-Rich
-------------------- Richard Bustamante Signs in the Pines www.signsinthepines.com Posts: 781 | From: Nevada City, California | Registered: Nov 1998
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to include some metric measurements, and you keep talking like you guys still use our measurements. What gives? ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
![[I Don t Know]](graemlins/dunno.gif)
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![[Wink]](wink.gif)
~!
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