posted
My wonderful husband has bought us an airbrush for Christmas. I have read that Createx paints can be used on vinyl. My question is what types of vinyl will accept this paint? Is there any prep work needed? Should a clearcoat be applied afterwards? Sorry for all the questions but I am having problems finding this info. Any suggestions on what to use or where to find this information would be great.
Thanks Again,
Christy
-------------------- Christy Griffith C Graphics artistaboxers@aol.com Posts: 26 | From: Meridian, ID | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
well christy, My method is a bit tedious but using one-shot this is what I came up with with no problems to date.
1) start by lightly scuffing vinyl with a mild scuff pad, wipe with alcohol.
2) apply Ticote which is a binder from Chromatic.
3) after it is dry, make sure you test it by applying masking tape and Ripping it off quickly, if the Ticote does NOT come off you did a good job prepping it.
4) paint as needed and most likely clear after airbrushing
5) DO NOT use frog juice, I have had everything stick but the clear using frog juice, it is too unpredictable when removing the app. tape.
6) use One-shot clear, I use the spead dry clear with success, and always remember to use caution when removing the application tape.
This method works for me every time, with no problems, I have lost many paint jobs on vinyl trying other methods when removing the application tape.
good luck
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
My best results have been with automotive basecoat/clearcoats.
just wipe the cut/unweeded vinyl with any type of wax and silicone remover (actually wiping with laquer thinner works SUPER) and spray away.
BUT only spray the basecoat with the airbrush...the catalized clearcoat WILL render the airbrush useless if not cleaned VERY METICULOUSLY.
Just my 2 cents worth...
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
Are there any good airbrush sites videos or books that you would recommend for a sign artist starting out with an airbrush? I have found that most of the literature only pertains to painting directly on the actual sign/vehicle surface and not on vinyl.
Thanks again,
Christy
-------------------- Christy Griffith C Graphics artistaboxers@aol.com Posts: 26 | From: Meridian, ID | Registered: Mar 2004
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Hi Christy, Save yourself a bunch of hassles and go to your nearest screenprinting supply house. Buy some gloss vinyl screen ink, some reducer, and extender. This is the stuff made to print on vinyl, it will dry to become the vinyl. No worries about adhesion failure, doesn't need a clear coat, and sprays like a dream. I use Summit Inks made by Sericol, 1-800-255-4562. NazDar makes good stuff too. (9700 series, I think)
-------------------- Bill Dirkes Cornhole Art LLC Bellevue, Ky. Goodnight Mrs. Calabash, wherever you are. Posts: 591 | From: Bellevue,Ky. US | Registered: Aug 1999
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posted
I'll third the vinyl ink and second the auto basecoats, both methods work extremely well.
Bob,you go to waaaaaay to much trouble just to be able to use One Shot, which when thinned to airbrush consistancy , is much less durable than the other two methods.
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
posted
I am of the vinyl ink category:) I do use acrylics once in a great while to paint vinyl but have found that they aren't as stable UV wise and abrasive wise. When I use Createx, Aqua Flow, etc, I do similar to Bob in preparation. I don't use the adhesion promter, but I do scuff, wipe with alcohol, paint and then cleacoat. I use a heat gun to heat set the paints as I go including the Frog Juice or One Shot clear. I can't say I've NEVER had a failure, but I'never had one on a job other than a test job. That I immediately stored in the "Don't Do It Folder".
Vinyl inks are definitely the way to but make sure you have the proper place to do it and ventilation on hand. That STUFF STINKS!!
[ December 19, 2004, 12:32 PM: Message edited by: R T Thomas ]
-------------------- R.T.Thomas,AirDesigns/Sign And Airbrush Studio rtart1@earthlink.net
Hattiesburg,MS 39401 Shop 601-584-1000 Cell 601-310-5901 Proud supporter of LETTERVILLE!
"Ahhhhhh.......Juicy Fruit." Posts: 547 | From: Hattiesburg,MS USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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For me anyway I usually have any color I desire in my cabinet for the asking, so to go and buy screen ink or even automotive paints I'd have to leave the shop and purchase more paint than I usually am going to need. I also have the ventilation issue. I have always been home based, and even though my new shop is seperate from the house, ventilation is not a solved problem. I have worked with screen inks before and it does appear to be a better solution but with all the above elements considered. One-shot just seems to be more convenient for my shop.
As far as durability I haven't noticed an issue as of yet, and seeing as digital printing is so the norm now, I am doing less and less jobs with my airbrush anyway
Heck I even have heard of great results from krylon from some, I've never tried that one yet
[ December 19, 2004, 01:15 PM: Message edited by: Bob Rochon ]
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
The ventilation problem can be a killer, especially with the vinyl, that stuff smells to high heaven.I learned long ago, to use it at the end of the day and throw away EVERYTING that was used on the job, open paint containers, rags whatever or the smell would be with you for weeks. I've had about five colors of vinyl ink for almost twenty years that I'm able to mix any color I need. At the rate they last they will be around for another hundred.The durability and adhesion can't be matched. Krylon is another option, although the Fusion colors are a little limited.
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
No special prep, no fuss. Thin, spray, run lacquer thinner through the airbrush, and be done with it and ready to apply in minutes... not to forget the ink is made specifically for the vinyl material. You can't beat it.
I use Nazdar GV inks, mostly white. If I need another color in a pinch I take a 3/4oz airbrush jar to a local screenprinter and get some Nazdar 9700 or 9600 (forget which it is they use).
I also use R/C car paint. That stuff is designed to stick to lexan and other plastics. They have all kinds of really cool colors available, including some House of Kolor colors if your local hobby shop carries a wide selection.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
try the kind with adhesive on the back. it sticks better.
actually check out the how to's on this site and you will find some information about airbrushing vinyl
-------------------- Harris Kohen K-Man Pinstriping and Graphix Trenton, NJ "Showing the world that even I can strategically place the pigment where its got to go." Posts: 1739 | From: Trenton, NJ, USA | Registered: Jun 2001
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I have checked out the "step by step" section and have also done a search on airbrushing vinyl on this site looking for more info. I have only found one suggestion for types of vinyl suitable for airbrushing and it was very unspecific. If you know of any links in particular please share.
Thanks.
-------------------- Christy Griffith C Graphics artistaboxers@aol.com Posts: 26 | From: Meridian, ID | Registered: Mar 2004
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Check out Krylons Fusion Paint, it comes in a spray can. in various Colors, all you have to do is spray what you want in a color cup, and airbrush away, sticks like crazy to vinyl, it says so right on the can. I tested it on some vinyl and it works great, with no hassle.
Now its does'nt say that it "Sticks like crazy to Vinyl" but you know what I mean.
-------------------- "Keep Positive"
SIGNS1st. Neil Butler Paradise, NF Posts: 6277 | From: St. John's NF Canada | Registered: Mar 1999
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Christy...Nazdar Vinyl (silkscreen inks) is what everyone is using ...it will take considerable thinning...use their thinner or do as most do thin it with lacquer thinner.
-------------------- "Werks fer me...it'll werk fer you"
posted
I agree that Screen ink works, but do try the Krylon Fusion Spray Bombs, it will save you a ton of money and Headaches, at least buy a $5.00 can of white and try it, that's what I did... now if you have screen inks on hand, then by all means go with those.
-------------------- "Keep Positive"
SIGNS1st. Neil Butler Paradise, NF Posts: 6277 | From: St. John's NF Canada | Registered: Mar 1999
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Using the screen inks is probably the way I will go. 5 have some good friends who own a screenprinting embroidery shop so I won't put me out to at least try it.
Cany you spray these inks on any vinyl (glossy, premium, matte or intermediate) or do you need to stick with a certain type?
Thank You for all your help. You guys are truely great!
-------------------- Christy Griffith C Graphics artistaboxers@aol.com Posts: 26 | From: Meridian, ID | Registered: Mar 2004
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Del, have you tried the "New" "Fusion" Brand... it's new this year, and it's been formulated to work on plastics and Vinyl... I agree with you a couple of years ago they changed the formula and they had a couple of different brands on the go, but this new "Fusion" is worth a look.. Just trying to help.
-------------------- "Keep Positive"
SIGNS1st. Neil Butler Paradise, NF Posts: 6277 | From: St. John's NF Canada | Registered: Mar 1999
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Christy, I only have experience with high performance vinyl, but the screen ink should weld to any vinyl. I use a 50/50 mix of reducer & retarder to thin the ink keep it wet in the cup and air brush. A gallon of screen wash out will run you about $8 and is great for cleaning the air brush. Always put on the respirator, even for a small job. None of this stuff is lung healthy, I think I'll have a cigar now.
-------------------- Bill Dirkes Cornhole Art LLC Bellevue, Ky. Goodnight Mrs. Calabash, wherever you are. Posts: 591 | From: Bellevue,Ky. US | Registered: Aug 1999
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One Shot thinned to airbrush consistency looses some longevity.
Screen inks stink to high heaven and are expensive because they only sell it in quarts.
Auto base / clear is expensive and very dangerous because of the isocyanates.
Auto Air needs a clear coat and is only as good as the clear you use.
I tried to buy some screen ink from a shirt screen printer. Seems they are all going to soy based heat cure inks. These will stick to nothing unless heat cured. I'm using base clear now but it's a pain as it takes longer to clean the gun than to spray the clear, and even with ventilation, it stinks up the shop. I wish there was an easy answer to this problem.
-------------------- Dave Sherby "Sandman" SherWood Sign & Graphic Design Crystal Falls, MI 49920 906-875-6201 sherwoodsign@sbcglobal.net Posts: 5398 | From: Crystal Falls, MI USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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I airbrush vinyl screening inks too but I also screen with them. A respirator is mandatory or you will be trying to figure out how to use your car keys by the end of the day. I would find a local guy and see if you could buy or trade a basic set of colors. It would be a worthwhile investment if you had to get quarts from a supplier though.
-------------------- Jim Upchurch Artworks Olympia WA Posts: 797 | From: Olympia, WA | Registered: Nov 1998
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We use House of Color Urethane all the time and it sticks like iron!
-------------------- Jane Diaz Diaz Sign Art 628 W. Lincoln Ave. Pontiac, Il. 61764 815-844-7024 www.diazsignart.com Posts: 4102 | From: Pontiac, IL USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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You are right, I was thinking fabric inks. Probably why I couldn't figure out why everyone was complaining about the odors. The UV inks aren't that unpleasant.
Guess I will have to find a different screenprinter:)
-------------------- Christy Griffith C Graphics artistaboxers@aol.com Posts: 26 | From: Meridian, ID | Registered: Mar 2004
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I was able to get my hands on some Auto Air and went back through these posts. You say Auto Air paint is only as good as the clearcoat you use over it. What clear have you had the best luck with? The worst?
Thanks!
-------------------- Christy Griffith C Graphics artistaboxers@aol.com Posts: 26 | From: Meridian, ID | Registered: Mar 2004
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Here's my experience with Auto Air. Years ago I bought alot of colors. I had very good success with spraying it as long as I used an airbrush with the right sized needle. (BIG) I scuffed the vinyl, cleaned it good, added their catalist and bond all and dried it with a hair drier as directed. Never had it pull away from the vinyl. I usually cleared it with Frog Juice. Many jobs held up great. Some faded badly in about 3 years. I still have some of that paint but it has thickened some and pretty much only use it for interior work.
Now after attending Mike Meyer's Winter Muster, I discovered that Auto Air has been GREATLY improved since I last bought it. So I'm trying it again, mainly thier transparent colors for spraying on chrome vinyl, and clearing with One Shot single stage clear.
Auto air is being used by custom body shops and then cleared with a normal urethane clear like Sikkens or PPG. It's just a slightly different process.
I say Auto Air is only going to be as good as the clear you use because you probably shouldn't expect more than 3 to 5 years with FG or One Shot clear. Automotive two stage clears on the other hand should protect the color for the life of the vinyl.
-------------------- Dave Sherby "Sandman" SherWood Sign & Graphic Design Crystal Falls, MI 49920 906-875-6201 sherwoodsign@sbcglobal.net Posts: 5398 | From: Crystal Falls, MI USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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