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Just back from Ireland, had an 8' crate sitting waiting for me.
It took me about 2 hours to uncrate it and get it on its stand, then a further 2 hours to RTFM, install the print server software and print drivers. About 1 hour to do the initial install of the inks and to calibrate for 3 different medias, then it was all set to go. The documentation was easy to follow and the softwares installed without a glitch.
Print & cut from Coreldraw took all of 5 minutes to figure out, basically you assign a color called 'ContourCut' to the cut vector then print as normal. The registration of the cut is expremely precise. Print quality on 'normal' setting is outstanding, I did some enlargements (36 x 60) from airial photos for a mining customer this morning, he was blown away. I can't wait to use a file worthy of the 'Hi quality' setting.
I immediately fell in love with the RIP software 'versa works', it's extremely easy to work with and for the most part self explainitory. I've kept the machine busy all morning, so it's literally earning money from Day 1. I'm going to enjoy integrating this machine into the shop, It'll bring a new range of products as well as simplifying the process or reducing costs for some current products.
I'm going to experiment with GBC's accushield UV laminate, hopefully I should be able to Print, cut, laminate and then weed; should save a lot of time and produce a quality product.
-------------------- Mike O'Neill
It has yet to be proven that intelligence has any survival value. - Arthur C. Clarke
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I know you will both be happy with the machine. I have the big brother to the versacamm and I'm sure they're almost identical. I think my rip software might be different than yours Mike. I'm using Roland's ColorRip II software. Works like a charm.
I am having one issue since upgrading to Corel 12. My contour cutline feature isnt working now whereas it did perfectly in version 9. I'm still trying to get to the bottom of it.
I have to be honest about the weekly required cleaning maintenance. Five months running most everyday and I haven't cleaned it once. Not one single issue from this printer. So far flawless printing.
I just took delivery this morning of the Seal 62" Ultra Cold laminator. Mike can you recommend a film for Oracals calandar vinyl? Figure you must know a lot about laminators. Thanks for any advice or tips.
-------------------- Bob Stephens Skywatch Signs Zephyrhills, FL
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Bob, I'd advise you to seriously look at a hot laminator. Cold films are just too limited in variety and are a lot more expensive to use. The accushield worked perfectly this afternoon. I was able to print & cut (one step) then laminate, then weed. The accushield laminate does not need trimming and separated perfectly on the cut. I can't get over the ease of use of the versa works RIP. I printed presentation graphics from both excel and autocad this afternoon. Both of these programs are a PITA when it comes to printing presentations to a specific size, they always seem to lose orientation or print position and result in wasted time & media, I just hit print and did the scaling, print quantity and nesting in the RIP. The learning curve has been swift & easy. The RIP is also dongle free, you can choose to install the server software on one computer and print to it from other workstations, or you can install the server software on as many workstations as you want and RIP from the workstations directly... sweet.
Neil... you're gonna love it!! Let me know what price you end up with, mine was 23,500(cdn) FOB Montreal, shipping was $325
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Welcome to the world of inkjet printers mate! Ive had a soljet for about 3 years and it has been a money making machine since day one, I cant believe its taken you guys this long to get one. Now the best thing to do is to keep the amzing power of these machines under your hat, SHHHHHHH! dont tell anyone , or they they will all get one
-------------------- Greg Baker Sign City 14 Milton Circuit Port Macquarie NSW 2444 signcity1@bigpond.com Posts: 48 | From: australia | Registered: Oct 2002
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Karen you're getting up around 10k for any of the hot lamintors and if you plan to do alot thats the way to go. I dont plan on doing very much. Just on vehicle prints which I dont do much of anymore and any prints that I want for long term outdoor use.
I dont plan on doing very much at all on my part. Cold lam is more expensive than the hot but I charge plenty to cover the added cost.
-------------------- Bob Stephens Skywatch Signs Zephyrhills, FL
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I'm ordering mine in the next two days. Got a great estimate today for the 30" model, free shipping and training and $1000 bux off the new computer I would need to drive it!! Yeeehaaawwwww!
Suelynn
-------------------- "It is never too late to be what you might have been." -George Eliot
Suelynn Sedor Sedor Signs Carnduff, SK Canada Posts: 2863 | From: Carnduff, SK Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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Congrats Suelynn! You have now set yourself miles apart from the competition....To play in this game seriously now you need to have the digital edge!
You will soon grow to detest weeding vinyl...
-------------------- Bob Stephens Skywatch Signs Zephyrhills, FL
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Hi, We are considering the 30" model, but we do a lot of vehicle lettering & we were wondering if clear coating the prints with frog juice, ect. is sufficiant or would we need some type of laminator? Thanks for any opinions. Jim
-------------------- Jim Hansen Tri-Star Graphics Bethel, Ct. 800-716-6500 e-mail:tsgracingdecals@aol.com www.tsgracingdecals.com Posts: 51 | From: Bethel, Ct. usa | Registered: Jan 2001
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I like the result of prints coated with Accushield, you have to realize this product is only 8 microns thick, but adds a nice gloss finish and UV protection. I've found that weeding after lamination is a little different, reverse weeding seems to work best. I've not yet tried cutting after laminating, but I will report back on best use practices for this product once I've gained experience.
Day 2 and the Roland VersaCamm still amazes me,
Bob I will be sending you samples, you'll like this stuff.
quote:Hi, We are considering the 30" model, but we do a lot of vehicle lettering & we were wondering if clear coating the prints with frog juice, ect. is sufficiant or would we need some type of laminator? Thanks for any opinions. Jim
I don't know how to answer this. My expectations for print life for this machine is about 24 months unlaminated or 36 months laminated. Roland says about 36 months unlaminated, but I would rather err conservatively. I guess it all comes down to customer expectations. I would definately use this product for a large corporate client who will change vehicle graphics every 2 years, I'n not sure if I would sell it to a small business client who would expect graphics to last the useful life of the vehicle. For me it is easy, I do have a Matan thermal printer, and cut vinyl as well so I have choices as to what I can offer a client. I do plan on wrapping my Jetta this winter with Versa Camm Print, so next year I'll tell you how it stands up, (and this is a harsh environment).
How's the print speed on this machine, compared to the other Ink Jets? I believe that it doesn't print well on 2 mil Vinyl, is this true? Not that I use much of this stuff all the same. I know the cost per sq. ft to operate is way lower than the edge, but should we drop the cost for our finished products?
-------------------- "Keep Positive"
SIGNS1st. Neil Butler Paradise, NF Posts: 6277 | From: St. John's NF Canada | Registered: Mar 1999
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I would never drop the price of the finished product because the material is cheaper. A 30k printer takes longer to payback than a $4k plotter.
Unfortunately I see it happening already and you will see price wars with digital prints occuring just as it did with vinyl.
I wish you had to go to business school before you were allowed to operate a sign company. One thing I know first hand is that if you dont operate at a profit you wont stay in business for very long. But that's a moot point. The damage to the industry is already done. The customer thinks that the unrealistic prices are the standard and that all of the legitimate shops are ripping everyone off.
And so the downward spiral begins.
-------------------- Bob Stephens Skywatch Signs Zephyrhills, FL
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I know Bob, I try to keep the prices consistent, I run a professional shop, and there's guys here that are half my prices, honestly "Half" my prices! and there's a few that are more, I try to keep myself on Par with those. But there's always some one.....
-------------------- "Keep Positive"
SIGNS1st. Neil Butler Paradise, NF Posts: 6277 | From: St. John's NF Canada | Registered: Mar 1999
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Now I'm confused again. I've been hearing the life expectancy for these prints is three years minimum, longer life if laminated. I plan on using this machine for vehicle lettering, safety signage, banners, etc.
I had also seriously looked at the summa DC3, a thermal machine. Comparing the pros and cons with both machines, I thought I had my mind made up. Doh!!
Suelynn
-------------------- "It is never too late to be what you might have been." -George Eliot
Suelynn Sedor Sedor Signs Carnduff, SK Canada Posts: 2863 | From: Carnduff, SK Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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Neil, I'm targeting around 8.50 per sq ft for unlaminated prints on vinyl. It seems to be the going rate from shops I've talked to in Quebec & Toronto. I get $12.50 for 4 color Matan prints. Print speed is ok, about 45 sq ft / hour, the queue management is excellent so you could run bigger jobs overnight, get the take up reel.
-------------------- Mike O'Neill
It has yet to be proven that intelligence has any survival value. - Arthur C. Clarke
I have had the VersaCamm for 8 months now. It is truely amazing. Don't get all caught up on using ROLAND media. Their marketing strategy is selling a 75 FOOT roll instead of a 50 yard roll. I guess they think 75 sounds better than 50??? We have always used HP vinyls and I have had a hard time justifying switching to calandered since buying the printer. If the print is only good for up to 3 years why use an 8 year vinyl?
if you go to http://mastersignwizard.com/versacamm/ Corey has put a lot of effert into ICC Profiles for other brands of vinyl. the user name is VERSACAMM and the password is HELP
We use a lot of ORACAL 3651 with his profile. It has a very high gloss and the print is EXCELLENT. It has a gray adhesive and is very opaque. A 50 yard roll of 30" is only $99.
We also use AVERY MPI vinyl using his oracal profile with excellent results. We get a 54" x 50 yard roll for $129. We then have it slit down to 30" and 24". It gives you a lot of vinyl for the money.
We have tried other vinyls but these are the two we stick with.
We have been using DAIGE Rollaguard liquid laminate for most sign applications. We roll it on with a foam roller then pull it out with a 4" wide foam brush. Liquid glass results. It is usually dry within an hour. We print and cut at the same time then laminate. We like to weed when the laminate is not fully cured (25 - 30 minutes).
If we do vehicle lettering we take the prints to the spray booth and spray automotive clears.
If you give Corey a call, he has been experimenting with a brand of ink that will save 50% on costs. Save your old print cartridges for refilling if you would ever be interested in switching. I am going to wait and see how his machine works over time before I commit to the change.
-------------------- Jerry VanHorn, Pres. Pure Sports Designs, LLC Pro Sign Design / United Wholesale Signs www.prosigndesign.comwww.unitedwholesalesigns.com West Liberty, OH 937-465-0595 866-942-3990 Since 1990 Posts: 925 | From: West :Liberty, OH | Registered: May 2004
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Thanks for the info Jerry, for now I'll stick to Roland products because
1) The margin here is high enough to keep me happy.
2) Logistically, any savings I would see would be lost in freight charges, the Montreal distributer for Roland is close to EM plastics who allow me to drop ship materials from other suppliers, hence freight is free.
3) I really like the support & help that I have received thus far from the roland distributer, and I want to continue that relationship.
-------------------- Mike O'Neill
It has yet to be proven that intelligence has any survival value. - Arthur C. Clarke
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I'm not poking at you, but I would like for anyone else with a VersaCamm to give some of the Orajet a try. You will not be disappointed. You will probably find that even with shipping you will still pay a lot less per SQ/FT for vinyl that is better than the Roland media.
I have one roll of Roland vinyl with AVERY stamped on it. I don't like the middleman charges when vinyl gets passed from one distributor to another, then to us. I have a roll of their PCVP vinyl for a job and am disappointed in the print finish, it was very dull. I also have some transluscent CCVP, the ink puddled and stayed wet forever with their ICC Profile. I don't worry about margins or things as much as some, but this viynl does produces higher profits than Roland. I tend to concern myself more with the quality of the final product.
I figure when I pay $14000 - $18000 US for a product the support and help involved from the distributor should be included.
When you buy a VersaCamm the dealer is supposed to set it up for you and train you, it's part of the package. When mine arrived it was going to be another several days before the dealer was supposed to show up and set things up. I am as impatient as the rest of you, so I set it up on my own and installed the software. The first print was a 26" x 168" for a job I had sold the previous week. When the dealer finally showed up I knew more about the software than he did. (He did not know how to panel a large graphic so I gave him a lesson )
-------------------- Jerry VanHorn, Pres. Pure Sports Designs, LLC Pro Sign Design / United Wholesale Signs www.prosigndesign.comwww.unitedwholesalesigns.com West Liberty, OH 937-465-0595 866-942-3990 Since 1990 Posts: 925 | From: West :Liberty, OH | Registered: May 2004
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I really don't feel poked at and I do like the discussion. It has prompted me to do a little research. The first thing I discovered is that the Roland distributer is selling other vinyls than Roland
The Canadian Distributer for Oracal is All Graphics supplies. Their price for the Orajet 3651 is .44 /sq ft. The Roland dealer sells me CMX Jetbond for .34 / sq ft. It's a 3 mil calandered vinyl, rated for extreme temperatures -40c to 80c. Looks good so far...
-------------------- Mike O'Neill
It has yet to be proven that intelligence has any survival value. - Arthur C. Clarke
-------------------- Jerry VanHorn, Pres. Pure Sports Designs, LLC Pro Sign Design / United Wholesale Signs www.prosigndesign.comwww.unitedwholesalesigns.com West Liberty, OH 937-465-0595 866-942-3990 Since 1990 Posts: 925 | From: West :Liberty, OH | Registered: May 2004
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No wonder my profits are soaring! Its all good If they ever find a way to cut the cost of ink this will get scary.
Im not running out and testing any third party inks just yet. I did it once before on my Encad with horrible results.. I'm very satisfied with what Im paying now and getting outstanding and predictable results...Aint broke and I'm not messing with anything...
-------------------- Bob Stephens Skywatch Signs Zephyrhills, FL
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Good move Suelynn. GMTA![[I Don t Know]](graemlins/dunno.gif)
I don't like the middleman charges when vinyl gets passed from one distributor to another, then to us. I have a roll of their PCVP vinyl for a job and am disappointed in the print finish, it was very dull. I also have some transluscent CCVP, the ink puddled and stayed wet forever with their ICC Profile. I don't worry about margins or things as much as some, but this viynl does produces higher profits than Roland. I tend to concern myself more with the quality of the final product.
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