posted
Yesterday I did a vinyl graphic install for a client. Simple job. All I was to do was lay down vinyl onto an acrylic sign panel at his shop. That’s what I did. Today he calls me and said that the vinyl is full of bubbles. It was not like that when I did the job. So I went out and had a look. It was real weird, like "rnino skin" I’ve never seen this kind of problem before, but I think I recall hearing about it.
The panel was out side in -15 C about an hour or two prior to me laying the graphics. I’ve ruled out the vinyl being the problem……….cause I used two different manufactured types……….it would be unlikely that they were both defected. I also used both a wet and dry technique for different parts………so I ruled out the technique, cause all the graphics have reacted the same.
Did the acrylic start to gas off as it was in a warm environment all night? That’s the only thing that I can think of.
Anyone experienced this kind of problem before?
I suppose I have to eat this one and do it again…………I’m supposed to be the professional, right.
-------------------- John Martin Robson Pendragon Signs & Graphics Yellowknife,NT,Canada
if it's not one thing.....it's two things Posts: 261 | From: Yellowknife, NT, Canada | Registered: Aug 2000
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How long did the graphics "dwell" at room temperature before being returned to the cold?
-------------------- Jon Aston MARKETING PARTNERS "Strategy, Marketing and Business Development" Tel 705-719-9209 Posts: 1724 | From: Barrie, ON, CANADA | Registered: Sep 2000
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Did you remove the protective plastic on the acrylic just before you installed the lettering? You have to let it outgas at least a day after removing the plastic.
If that isn't the case, I have no idea!
Welcome back Suelynn
-------------------- "It is never too late to be what you might have been." -George Eliot
Suelynn Sedor Sedor Signs Carnduff, SK Canada Posts: 2863 | From: Carnduff, SK Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Any way to wait and see before redoing the job? If the bubbles have "outgassed" from the acrylic and are under the vinyl right now, wouldn't they naturally make their way through the vinyl too and completely disappear? I've seen it happen, but it takes a while.
SONGPAINTER Original Sign Music by Sign People NOW AVAILABLE on CD and the proceeds go to Letterville's favorite charity! Click Here for Sound Clips! Posts: 1974 | From: Orleans, MA, Cape Cod, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I have never personally observed a plastic panel outgas. I do aluminum, lexan and plexi on a regular basis and never wait a day or two after peeling the paper.
I feel the pickle skin comes from air trapped and conpressed under the vinyl which later pushes the vinyl into blisters. I personally watched my helper make pickle skin, then remove the vinyl, I apply the vinyl and no pickle skin, remove it and then watch the helper reapply and get pickle skin. I've watched her apply vinyl on aluminum panels and later show pickle skin as well.
If pickle skin was outgasing why doesn't the bubbles keep on comming?
Now to the real possible cause.
Did you sharpen your squeeggee? An uneven edge on the squeeege will allow bubbles to form as you stroke. Even the smallest bad edge will cause pickle skin. Every time train a new helper i let them use a junk squeeggee the at the first training lesson. They never do it again.
-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5274 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
Polycarbonate (lexan) and acrylic (plexiglass) don't off gas unless subjected to elevated temps. Usually 200 degrees F or even more. No other insite on this issue. Good Luck.
posted
I'm not sure if this will work for you, but anything is worth a try before completely redoing a job . . . . try heating the vinyl.
I notice you're in Canada . . so I guess setting the offending panel outside in the hot sun is impossible . . .mabey run a heat gun or, less scarey...a hair dryer over it very lightly....judging and watching as you go to see how close to get and where the warmer it gets, the more it pulls or stretches smooth.
The reason I suggest this is . . . sometimes when I get small air bubbles in vinyl applications, rather than popping them, I notice that over time the hot sun makes them go away.
I also notice more air bubbles when applying vinyl in extreme heat or extreme cold....but certain middle temps do much better.
I've noticed if bubbles are popped or cut...that tiny hole or slit, will become slightly larger, but if you wait a month or so, the bubble is just gone. Since you don't have any incredible heat waves available...create one . . .
...like I said, anything is worth trying to avoid completetly redoing. Good luck.
-------------------- Signs Sweet Home Alabama
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"Look like a girl, act like a lady, think like a man, work like a dog" Posts: 5758 | From: "Sweet Home" Alabama | Registered: Mar 2003
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I'm positive that this is a case of outgassing. There were no bubble after I completed the job. The client was right there watching me. This happened after.
I'm not immune to making bubbles when I lay vinyl. But I could not create bubbles like the ones on this sign............it actully looks cool.......cause it very consistant throughout.
This is not a case of bad tools or technique.........its a case of materials reacting.
I know I'm going to have to do this job again........cause there no way I'm going to be able to convince my client thats its OK and that the bubles will go away on there own.
Still its a mystery to me.
-------------------- John Martin Robson Pendragon Signs & Graphics Yellowknife,NT,Canada
if it's not one thing.....it's two things Posts: 261 | From: Yellowknife, NT, Canada | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
Yes (unfortunately) you'll have to re-do the job. I did one a few years ago on lexan, 4' circle, in December. Cut it, sanded the edges, removed teh protectice cover, brought it inside, waited for it to warm up, wiped it down to remove condensation, cleaned with rapid prep, let it dry, applied four layers of hp vinyl using rapid tac, looked great when I was finished. Next morning was going to wrap it up and deliver, it looked like hell. I called it a pickle, heavily textured with little air bubbles. Tried to pop the bubbles, just to many of them, and all were between the lexan and the first layer of vinyl. Went on this site and foud out about out-gassing. Removed all the vinyl, waited a day, and re-did the sign exactly the same way. Still looks great 2 years later. Recommendation: Bring in lexan/plexi glass inside and remove protective covering at least a couple of days prior to applying vinyl, as this allows the plastic to out-gas. Wet or dry application makes no difference.
Posts: 521 | From: Victoria BC | Registered: Mar 2002
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I applied 2 layers of vinyl onto a small piece of acrylic (2"x4") once to test something and after the app. it looked fine, but the next day it looked as you all are describing. I eventually found out the second layer "cured" faster than the first layer causing these tiny bubbles. They were 2 different kinds of HP vinyl and was told the second layer shrunk faster than the first layer.
-------------------- TJ Duvall Diamond State Graphics, Inc.
New Castle, DE 19720 Posts: 396 | From: New Castle,Delaware | Registered: Jul 2002
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