DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter Posts: 6451 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
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Geeze Mike, if you cant afford it, thats one thing, but explaining it the way you did, more or less that The Shortreeds should find other ways to get money from the site, is a cop out. Its either worth it to you or not. To me, its definitely worth it. Heck, the perks alone are worth the 50 bucks.
-------------------- Maker of fine signs and other creative stuff. Located at 109 N. Cumberland ave. Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-837-0242 Posts: 4172 | From: Ages-Brookside, Ky. Up the Holler... | Registered: Jul 1999
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posted
Hey now, we all got to live thru the Great Weight Loss Saga, where you goin' to get a paying audience like that, eh?
Take some of that "dough" you saved in the last couple months, send it on in... hey, about 50 cents a pound, huh?
Just me being serious ha ha
John Lennig / SignRider
-------------------- John Lennig / Big Top Sign Arts 5668 Ewart Street, Burnaby, British Columbia, Canada bigtopya@hotmail.com 604.451.0006 Posts: 2184 | From: Burnaby, British Columbia,Canada | Registered: Nov 2001
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I gotta wonder why everyone here is more concerned with everyone elses business than with drapers post.....i personally couldnt give 2 craps about who chooses to be a resident or not and why, and neither should anyone else......part of being a cohesive group is policing your own,and as long as some chickensh*t sack of crap is emailing and friggin calling peoples families,having more people sign on while we pretend something like that isnt happening isnt further any cause. The sad thing is that the chickensh#t thats doing it probably runs about a 95% chance of being someone that everyone here has over time put on a pedestal and respects and now feels its his/her duty to be a ball-less,egocentric, 2 faced SOB who comes here,throws praise around to the right people knowing they'll get a corresponding amount in return,then lashes out when they're no longer the center of attention,just doesnt have the balls to do it publicly and has to sneak and do it in pvt....bet money on it. Anyone can join the club so to speak,but just because they joined not everyone belongs there and crap like that proves it....rather than worry about who has what label,worry about peoples actions,thats what makes you a valued contributor,not a tag. You wanna disagree with someone here thats fine,it starts in a public forum have the balls to keep it in a public forum or stick your tail between your 2faced chickensh*t legs and go kiss your own as* to feed your ego instead of doing it by being an invisible keyboard warrior. If whats said here hurts your delicate fragile little ego so badly that you have to threaten peoples families,you dont belong here you belong in therapy There is no shame in being a resident,not being a resident,posting or not posting,but there is shame in being such a chickensh*t,immature,cowardly SOB you can't stand up for yourself.....and if you dont have the sack to stand up for yourself and what you claim to believe in you dont belong on this forum or any other,regardless if youre a paying member,lurker or what. Sorry if noone agrees but if theres one thing in this world i cant stand its a f'n 2faced coward
-------------------- Gavin Chachere Plotter in the garage,New Orleans La.
"Sgts Shugart and Gordon again request permission to rope down to crash site two" Posts: 1223 | From: new orleans.la. | Registered: Mar 2000
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I was in a co-op biz once... no boss?.. yeah right, everyone else in the biz thinks they are the boss, the peer pressure & guilt-tripping from multiple directions is worse then just having a boss! Actually I loved the experience, but is was a bit of a clusterfuk of opinions about how things are supposed to be run.
Good thing this is not a co-op, it could get really annoying.
I think Mike's point is valid. If Steve required payment, Mike would base his decision to participate on that requirement... as it stands now, the "tax" is voluntary, & his decision to participate at the level he does is based on the current standing policies.
If all the other would-be policy writers would lay off the guilt trips & let Steve run it his way things will probably be fine for another 10 years.
(NOTE: Jeff's original topic is not among the comments I consider guilt trips, but the tone has turned somewhat in that direction IMO)
posted
An attack on any person that dave has put up with is wrong. Phone calls, emails, or other forms of harrasment or whatever has caused more pain for more people here.
Dave, Out this riff raff if you know who is doing this. It kind of low life crap has happened too many times to too many people for way to long.
-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5274 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
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I'm totally not going to get into the reasons anyone "should" or "could" or Would" pay residency, that's supposed to be up to each individual's conscience. But I sincerely believe money is needed and deserved. If enough people aren't voluntarily kicking in to make it financially feasible for the Shortreeds maybe there are other ways to suppliment operating capital.
Two I thought of:
A Paypal type button where you could click anytime and toss a few bucks into your 'account'. Might see participants who would end up giving far more than $50 over the course of a year.
Letterville merchandise for sale - hats, t-shirts, aprons, Songpainter CDs, even contributed items like books, old meet Ts, etc, that also could be paid for with a Paypal type button. Like eBay has their "Buy It Now". Impulse purchases.
SONGPAINTER Original Sign Music by Sign People NOW AVAILABLE on CD and the proceeds go to Letterville's favorite charity! Click Here for Sound Clips! Posts: 1974 | From: Orleans, MA, Cape Cod, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter Posts: 6451 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
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I knoe so many times when I reach out for some help & I get it... I'm feeling pretty well taken care of in that moment.. often knowing some specific funds that were earned or saved as a result.
Reminds me of my days in NYC with various characters on every street corner shaking a blue coffee cup half full of coins... sometimes I got the impulse to chip in..
...you know that animated dog in XP's search engine? we should have a pop-up animated gif that shakes a little coin cup complete with a .wav file of some coin jingling samples... the character could be a shaky Jake sign painter dude... one click takes you to Joe's paypal shopping cart for random donations
quote:Originally posted by Sheila Ferrell: I wonder if stalking, or harrassment is an issue with anyone . . .why would you make your phone number and address so readily avaiable to the world at large??
How does someone operate a business and hide their address and phone number at the same time?
As for Dave's problem, I'd like to see the spineless creature that's harassing him OUTTED and ARRESTED. Probably be best for the latter to happen first though.
-------------------- Chris Welker Wildfire Signs Indiana, Pa Posts: 4254 | From: Indiana, PA | Registered: Mar 2001
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I agree Chris..If you want to sell or advertise your services on the internet then you must provide your contact information.
As far as Dave's "stalker" problem. I have only met Dave once but I know he is a decent person who would not intentionally harm anyone. He does not deserve any sort of harrasement. (I DID harrass him once though, sorta..remember the "winking eye" Dave??? )
I have had issues with others in the past, and I don't deny that I have been vocal about them, but I definitely don't believe in anonymous threatening stuff. That is for jerks.
I truly hope Dave finds out who is threatening and gets them dealt with properly.
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
posted
Well, I guess I meant . . .residents or visitors here, who are not here to get sign sales from this site . . . . (but if there are web-sites shown, I guess they have that phone/locale info in them too . . .)
Mabey Letterville has, or will get, it's own 'FBI' goin', to root out the stalker types . . .
The world is a big place full of Looney toons . . .but it's unacceptable that anyone would harrass ANYONE on this site . . . and there nust be a way to totally avoid, or curtail it . . . right?? I'm askin . . .
BTW . . .did'nt a chick named Rosemary have a problem with this as well??
-------------------- Signs Sweet Home Alabama
oneshot on chat
"Look like a girl, act like a lady, think like a man, work like a dog" Posts: 5758 | From: "Sweet Home" Alabama | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
Rosemary had trouble with a stalker through involvement on an internet chat site, but it was not this one. Her father (Pierre, most recently seen here on the Avery topic using Rosemary's brothers log-in) is the moderator on a very active firearms BB, & the stalker incident came about via that board.
There has been some very serious harassmant behind the scenes of this site that could only be diagnosed as the symptoms of a genuine mental health issue. Hopefully I will not draw further episodes upon myself as a result of this anonymous remark. I have no knowledge of any connection with Dave's current troubles, but those of which I speak were quite out in the open due to several people experiencing similar emails to myself.
Dave's troubles sound far more serious then anything I know of the ancient history I'm referring to.
posted
((--- PHOTO NOT COMMING, PICTURE IS CLOSE ENOUGH
Getting back to the original topic, I pay basically because I visit almost daily, also when I needed support to host a meet this site gave a lot of help for free,I can understand that an odd few simply can't pay, because they are struggling to survive but there are those who choose not to pay because they are just tight and can get everything here for free, you dont need to sell too many signs to pay your due here.There are givers and takers in all walks of life. We would like it if more people would support Steve and Barb, but they should not need to have special offers to get visitors to join Cheers Terry
-------------------- Terry Colley The VintageSign Co 42 barrack hill Romiley Stockport Cheshire, England sk6 3az tel 0161 494 5089 terry@bullandbrush.fsnet.co.uk Posts: 210 | From: England | Registered: Dec 1999
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posted
I'm fixing up my upstairs office. As a result, I haven't been watching the BB the way I usually do. Barb noticed this post heating up and advised me to drag my butt down here and see if I can calm the angry mob.
This Residency issue comes up from time to time. We don't feel comfy talking about it. Someone always seems to turn it around and Barb and yours truly end up being portrayed as beggars. Someone once compared us to Jim Jones, evildoers fleecing an innocent flock. Ouch! That one did hurt.
Letterville started out as The Letterhead Website. It was 1995. Due to a couple heart attacks, I was labeled disabled and forced to close the sign shop we established in 1975. It was a terrible time emotionally, physically and financially.
The Letterhead Website had 22 shops involved. Nobody seriously considered it would ever be more than a hobby. We had a chat channel, a list of shops we updated daily and a very simple BB. It was all built with HTML For Dummies and the assistance of a couple very smart kids I met online. It wasn't fancy, but it did give me a new reason to get up everyday.
I'm taking you on this trip down memory lane for a reason. We're not corporate people, suppliers, or publishers. Our background is making signs and running a small sign shop. We've been involved with a group of others who share our passion and desire to exchange information. Letterville is our attempt to spread the word about Letterheads and establish a voice for small shop owners.
When it became apparent we had a growing child on our hands, we looked at various plans to feed him. Selling advertising seemed to be what the mags did, so we did the same. I can remember bragging that the users of this site would never have to pay a dime. The advertisers would pay for our playground. Isn't free great!
Then a funny thing happened. It was all Appy's fault. One of our advertisers called and demanded I remove a post that talked about a competing product. This was my first introduction into the World of Corporate Marketing and something the marketing guy called "the real sign industry."
I'm either nuts or just plain stubborn. For most of my life, I've been living under the thumb of bank managers, impossible customers and others. I put myself in this position. In the process I created a merry-go-round that I could not stop. Looking back I like to call it suicide by sign shop. Nothing like 4 heart attacks to make you step back and revaluate what is really important. I always thought all of us small shops who actually create signs were the "real sign industry."
I sent that advertiser packing. It hurt to lose the income, but I am not interested in running a website that is controlled or sponsored by advertisers. Nothing wrong with those that do, but my interest is the people that make signs. These are "our people."
Pretty big talk. I realized that I could not serve two masters at the same time without having to sell-out on occasion. That's when and why the Resident idea was born. We had to find a way to ensure Letterville could survive without being completely dependant on advertisers. Having a sponsor may be nice on the pocket book, but sooner or later those that pay will dictate the game. The same goes for our live meets but that is a whole other subject.
Here's the bottom line. If you identify with anything I have said above, that alone may be motivation to become a subscriber. That's what a Resident really is. It's not human nature to pay for something you get free, so Residents get some great perks as an added incentive. Many have won door prizes worth hundreds, sometimes thousands of dollars in our Monthly Resident Draws. There's also some clipart and fonts available to Residents in the Letterville Vault, your photo is included in your post and we'll give you some space on our server for your photos. It's great value for those who are interested.
Those not interested in becoming Residents are just as welcome. All Residents were Visitors at one time. At live Letterheads, the exchange of knowledge is always free. The admission we pay only helps cover the costs associated with putting on the meet. Someone mentioned that those who share info and answer questions should be treated differently. At a real meet, that would mean everyone gets in for free. We're all in the same boat when it comes to this Letterhead experiment. The truth is each and evey one of you is special.
I hope this has enlightened some of you about Letterville and why we have Residents. We've come to accept that Lertterville will never be everyone's cup of tea, but we're trying to do the best we can with the time and resources available. It's no accident Letterville is the most popular sign community in the World. We work our butts off and love what we do. With all due respect to Mike, he has never managed anything remotely close to Letterville. There isn't anything like Letterville!
posted
Everybody want everything for free and on the other hand they want to get paid for what they do...Go figure!
That's a vivious circle! If you like Metallica and you don't pay for their music, do you think they will have money to record another album, or to go on tour? They'll quit and you will loose them!! That's pretty simple!
I seriously think that this can happen to this site.
However Steve is the Mayor and he runs this place like he wants to. The big guy is stubborn and I don't think he will change his mind about this.
Personnally I decided not to answer any topic or question brought by a non-resident unless I know that the person is new here or unable temporarly financially to pay his taxes. That's my own belief but everybody is making more than $50 a year with all the helps tips, tricks and support that they receive from this place.
Hey I always paid for my subscribtion to Signcraft and I always thought it worth it! By the way who gets Signcraft for FREE?!?... And there is plenty of advertising in it!
-------------------- Pierre Tardif P. Tardif Inc. 1006 boul. PIE-XI sud Val-Belair QC. Canada G3K 1L2 418-847-4089 pierre@ptardif.com Posts: 800 | From: Quebec city | Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
I did not intend to make anyone feel like a beggar or a free loader. I just know I don’t think I realized the worth of this site until it became so helpful during the recent “vinyl thing”. I think anyone that has this vinyl thing going on understands what I mean.
I don’t wish a thing like this on anyone but if you happen to have it happen, I’ll bet you’d be thankful to have a place to speak about it without being censored because of a corporate influence.
I just hate it when you bring something up here and it gets twisted around or changed to a different topic.
I have never met Dave and I mean no disrespect, no one needs to be harassed but I’m not sure I get the connection. You said the harassment started again after your “Cargill” post but yet you just started another post just a few days ago. Again I’m not trying to start another **** slinging match but when someone else came here and said
“I gotta wonder why everyone here is more concerned with everyone elses business than with drapers post.....i personally couldnt give 2 craps about who chooses to be a resident or not and why, and neither should anyone else......part of being a cohesive group is policing your own,and as long as some chickensh*t sack of crap is emailing and friggin calling peoples families,having more people sign on while we pretend something like that isnt happening isnt further any cause.”
That’s a different topic and without keeping this a user supported (financially) site ya may not be able to come here and speak your piece.
I simply think more people can afford to cough up the $50 and help keep this place going strong...possibly make it better and continue to give us a place to speak our piece without being censored.
Jeff
-------------------- Jeff's Lettering Lisa,Luke,Dara, and Jeff Spradling 5742 Shattuck Rd. Belvidere, Il. 61008 815-544-0167
Surviving another day. Posts: 626 | From: Belvidere, IL USA | Registered: Jul 2000
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quote:If all the other would-be policy writers would lay off the guilt trips & let Steve run it his way things will probably be fine for another 10 years.
Yep, Doug, and in ten years, the same people that are residents will be residents then too. I dont think anyones trying to lay a guilt trip on anyone else, and I dont think less of someone just cause they arent a resident. Ill put it this way, if you feel you gain something from coming to this site, why not be a resident? If you feel you dont gain anything from it, then dont be a resident. Simple, huh.
-------------------- Maker of fine signs and other creative stuff. Located at 109 N. Cumberland ave. Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-837-0242 Posts: 4172 | From: Ages-Brookside, Ky. Up the Holler... | Registered: Jul 1999
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posted
I live in a tourist town, Gettysburg. Like Letterville, people come to visit, enjoy the atmosphere, and return time after time. They also use our resources, share our roads, drop trash, and require our emergency services. We "taxpayers" support these visitors and we also welcome them into our town again and again. Eventually some of them become residents, like I have, and they become the supporters, who then continue the cycle of keeping the town looking good for the next visitors.
-------------------- Gene Golden Gettysburg Signs Gettysburg PA 17325 717-334-0200 genegolden@gettysburgsigns.com
"Art is knowing when to stop." Posts: 1578 | From: Gettysburg, PA | Registered: Jun 2003
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""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3485 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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If I recall correctly, it took me a few years to pay up and become a resident here. As much as I wanted to pay my 'taxes' I continued to face the delimma of where I absolutely needed to focus my finances. FYI, it was a birthday gift (from Gramma) that allowed me my 'status' here.
I attended my first Letterhead meet in 2000, where I met the Shortreeds' and another 50 or so sign-makers. During those years, I posted here freely, both giving and taking, attended several meets, phoned and emailed fellow Letterheads for advise, invited the same into my home, and heck, I even co-hosted a Letterhead meet at my shop. All of which, during my 'visitor' status!
I, was the same person as a visitor as I am a resident! Though I must admit, I have a better conscience for helping to support this wonderful network.
I realize, I'm coming in a little late on this HOT thread, but decided to throw in my 2 cents for the sake of the newbee's and otherwise 'visitors' lurking; Steve & Barb, nor any other Resident here have ever put any personal pressure on me to pay my taxes. I did it, because 'I' wanted to!!!
Cher.
**edited** to add: I've never been much into status. I walk to the beat of my own drummer!
[ November 12, 2004, 04:35 PM: Message edited by: Cheryl Lucas ]
-------------------- Co-Host: SANDCASTLE Panel Jam 'a Dixie Letterhead Reunion' Fort Myers, Florida
Cheryl Lucas a/k/a "Shag" on mIRC Vital Signs & Graphics, Etc. Cape Coral, Florida 239-574-4713 VSignsNgraphics@aol.com Posts: 987 | From: Cape Coral, FL USA | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
Let me add this before I am misconstrued. I didnt want my reply to sound like it was coming down on Mike or anyone else. I like mike and think he adds alot to the site. I also think alot of visitors add tremendous amounts of info here, some more than most residents like me. It just seems to me that out of 4000 plus members, only 250 or so are residents. Its a voluntary thing and will stay that way according to Steve. I just thought that more people ought to consider being a resident. One opinion in a barrel of many.
-------------------- Maker of fine signs and other creative stuff. Located at 109 N. Cumberland ave. Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-837-0242 Posts: 4172 | From: Ages-Brookside, Ky. Up the Holler... | Registered: Jul 1999
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posted
John, I myself didn't think your earlier post re: Mike was an attack... & to clear up my intent on my earlier post I hadn't considered your post to be guilt-tripping (and didn't necessarilly percieve that you thought I did either)... now that thats all clarified...
"guilt trip" may be a strong accusation, & not one anyone would want said about their posts, so maybe I shouldn't have used that expression, but as Steve has repeated here in this thread... the FREE exchange of ideas may not pay the bills... but it IS the spirit that spawned this whole thing in '95 & the spirit that fueled the devotion of heart & soul the Shortreeds have invested in it ever since.
This site is like seeing a live band perform with no cover charge at the door, but a small tip jar off in one discreet corner of the stage.
This thread has, at moments, become like a gnarly bouncer walking through the dance floor with the tip jar glaring at everyone so they will feel uncomfortable if they don't pay.
Speaking from experience, I would rather throw a party with a large crowd all having fun, but only a small amount of tips... then risk anyone leaving, or not having fun because of overzealous fans shaking the tip jar a little too loud or too often.
For the record I was a visitor for only about 2 weeks & a resident for 3 years now.
(well, MAYBE because I caused Steve to chase off one of his first "merchants"..I'll always be sorry for that Steve)
No..I am a resident because this site made me aware of the things I COULD do that I had never even considered doing previously.
This site also has introduced me and Shirl to MANY folks that we would never have met otherwise. Can you imagine Mike Meyer ever having met John Jordan (who I had the pleasure of meeting too) if it weren't for this website?? AND travelling all around the world to meet up with other sign folks?
Personally, Shirl and I have met MANY folks that we would never have met if not for this website. And we cherish the memories of our meetings.
AS far as cost is concerned..Shirl and I think nothing of spending $50 on a nice dinner/with drinks, and that only lasts one evening...$50 for a whole year's worth of information AND entertainment is a real bargain!!!!
By the way...just like several of we Canadians..that $50 US has been about $75 to us. And no complaints about the costs here.
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
posted
I don't quite understand that last comment Dave. Are you suggesting that all this discussion breaks down to a division by country problem? I hope you are not suggesting that. I can't see that holding up to scrutiny, can you?
-------------------- Dave Parr Sign Painter USA Posts: 709 | From: USA | Registered: May 2003
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posted
Ok, I get it. Dave himself is not complaining about the equivalent of $75.00 Canadian. He isn't intending to say there are no complaints in Canada, just no complaints from him.
-------------------- Dave Parr Sign Painter USA Posts: 709 | From: USA | Registered: May 2003
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I'm pretty sure he meant that because of the exhange rate on our money over the years, we have been paying $75.00 for our residency. I don't see any division there.
I can't believe someone that runs their own business can't find $50.00 somewhere. If you aren't clearing $50.00 a month, what the hell are you doing in business??? I think retired signpainters should get a lifetime membership though.
Suelynn
-------------------- "It is never too late to be what you might have been." -George Eliot
Suelynn Sedor Sedor Signs Carnduff, SK Canada Posts: 2863 | From: Carnduff, SK Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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quote: Personnally I decided not to answer any topic or question brought by a non-resident unless I know that the person is new here or unable temporarly financially to pay his taxes
The true spirit of Letterville...........???
Cracks me up, Things never change here, just faces
Almost 70 posts to once again beat this poor ol horse to death.....Dang critter is just about mush now.....
Why don't I become a payer here..??
Simple... #1......I Don't Want Too...!!? No excuses No whiney mumbo Jumbo..........Just a Plain & simple, I Just Don't Want too....
I have in the past..... I May again in the Future..........
#2....Because of the attitudes of the small group like that posted above.....
Steve & Barb have stayed in our home, and most likely will again sometime.......We consider them Friends, and our door is always open to them.......
But like I said.......A small group around here keeps most people away.........and the sad part is, the only ones that can't see this, are mostly the ones responsible for keeping people away away.........
........cj
-------------------- CJ Allan CJs Engraving 982 English Dr. Hazel, KY 42049
posted
I was just making the obdervsation that exchange rates have affected what Canadians pay. And I was NO suggesting any division and I was also saying that I wasn't complaining about it either.
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
posted
Ok Dave. I understand. You were only commenting that you and Shirl have no problem with the taxes that equate to roughly $75.00 in Canada. I see that now. It would probably have been intelligent for me not post that question until I had read it a few more times. You seem to be a decent guy; I'm sure you had no ill intent by your statement.
-------------------- Dave Parr Sign Painter USA Posts: 709 | From: USA | Registered: May 2003
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posted
Since I've stolen Dave's identity, don't hold the comments that follow against him...
I wonder why the site owners don't consider reducing the yearly membership fee to, say, $20 or $25, in order to encourage more visitors to join? The site owners would benefit by reaping more income because more folks would join.
Maybe a poll would be useful to determine whether the dues reduction would be feasible.
Well, I've gotta run ... back to speaking in tongues and handling snakes,
Boo Radley
-------------------- Dave Parr Sign Painter USA Posts: 709 | From: USA | Registered: May 2003
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