posted
I'm not sure that people need to go into Firestone Hysteria mode....
Has any of this vinyl out in the field began lifting or falling off? If so...hysteria is warranted....otherwise, concern, caution, and a TEMPORARY alternative seem in order to me till the distributors relay their confidence in a solution by Avery.
The comforting fact is that it seems like most all distributors of Avery product are taking care of the complaints.
Please note: In your rush to other brands....it's worth noting that many popular BRAND names use a combination of Avery, 3M, and other vinyl manufacturer's product. So don't be buying brand X and thinking your problem is solved....unless you buy 3M.
My grandpa complained of "shrinkage" and he lived to be 80 years old....
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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Good advice, Kelly and Alan. Kelly, I'm sure you wouldn't want to use A8 as a mask, but thanks for the thought. I may try to get in touch with some of those folks using vinyl on stock cars and unload some of it.
-------------------- Bill Diaz Diaz Sign Art Pontiac IL www.diazsignart.com Posts: 2107 | From: Pontiac, IL | Registered: Dec 2001
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#1. I think you will find out if you do some research that some of the 3M vinyl is actually made by other vendors for them, vendors such as Avery and a few other companies (EDIT: I cannot give you specific names of who makes it or who told me that, but I did hear something to that effect at one of the sign shows I attended in the past few years).
#2 I think if you are a recipient of Oracals weekly newsletter you might find it funny to read that even they have shrinkage and admit to it right in their newsletter, I'm not saying they have the same exact problem but in their newsletter even they admit that ALL vinyls have shrinakage, some more than others.
What am I trying to say??
GET REAL PEOPLE!!!!!
Paint dont Shrink!!!!!!
If you got that much of a problem then quit yer bitchin and change to another brand that shrinks too.
For the record, YES I have personally had to replace 3M vinyl that shrunk.
now can we all pick up the phone call our local distributor and let them take care of our problems and get on with life, you people are beating this horse to death.
Avery has already told you to contact your local rep about these problems as would any other reputable company. I believe the issue lies within the inability of the local dealers to be willing to deal with this problem and NOT Avery themself. So perhaps maybe the better idea would be to contact those dealers that denied this being an issue and advise them that they are no longer your preferred distributor since they didnt try to help you in a reasonable way. Thats how I intend to deal with this problem, Though my distributor has already told me they would replace any product I have that is bad.
-------------------- Harris Kohen K-Man Pinstriping and Graphix Trenton, NJ "Showing the world that even I can strategically place the pigment where its got to go." Posts: 1739 | From: Trenton, NJ, USA | Registered: Jun 2001
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Not being a regular Avery user, I did purchase a couple 15" rolls of Avery reflective recently to do seven police cars with. The customer wanted kelly green and the Avery Kelly Green was perfect. Now Im a little worried... Not a lot... Just a little...
-------------------- Maker of fine signs and other creative stuff. Located at 109 N. Cumberland ave. Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-837-0242 Posts: 4172 | From: Ages-Brookside, Ky. Up the Holler... | Registered: Jul 1999
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I too, have had problems with A8 Avery. Good thing my customers trust me to make it good regardless of whose fault, mine or maker. Scares me. I don't know what's out there that I don't know about... Yes, my vendor also told me that Avery knows about it and they would probably relpace the vinyl. Huh, ??,
-------------------- Share-in Y Reardon Carter's sign shop, inc. 2365 Francis Av., Naples, FL Posts: 29 | From: naples,fl,usa | Registered: Apr 2000
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Apparently there have been some speculations as to why I have not made any recent comments on this thread about this situation.
I originally came here about this for more than one reason.
A. To see if I was the only one having a problem. B. If I wasn’t alone...to discuss what was going on. C. If there was a wide spread problem...it has been my experience there is strength in numbers. D. If I could help someone with this I would.(as in the spread sheet I offered) E. There are more but those are the main ones.
I accomplished, for the most part, what I set out to do.
A. I got some answers. B. I believe the strength helped. C. I was able to help.
When I heard from the Avery people, they asked me to pass on the word that anyone with concerns should call their suppliers and told me for legal reasons they could not reply here...shortly after, there legal department apparently allowed them to reply here.
I did not make any deals with them...I’m sure that I was told the same thing that anyone that contacted their supplier was told as to the procedures to try to remedy this issue...which I am doing.
At no time did I set out to go on a product bashing escapade...I’m trying to handle this in as professional manor as I can. No...I’m not happy at all about the issue at hand but at this point I don’t think product bashing is the best way to resolve this issue.
I think it’s the age old case of treat others as you would want to be treated...If you had an issue that was your fault would you want your customers to string you up a tree instantly...or give you a chance to make it right?
If this sounds like a change of heart or I’ve sold out to someone...that’s not the case...I’ll be the first one to admit, When I first seen this problem I was fightin mad...and it didn’t help that it seamed as though no one was listening, acknowledging the problem, or helping. I guess because I’ve never ran a multi billion dollar business I thought I should get some satisfaction instantly.
I’m not trying to ruffle anyone’s feathers here...I just caught wind of some gossip and wanted to state my thoughts. I’d like to think I’m very much like many others here...very passionate about my beliefs...sometimes quick to jump to conclusions...make mistakes...but wise enough to learn from them and carry on.
As to the recent posts above if anyone thinks that the product bashing above is helping this situation I think you’re mistaken...give it a break...lets see how this is handled...if not to everyone’s satisfaction...then tear into them.
Thank you all VERY SINCERELY!!
Jeff
-------------------- Jeff's Lettering Lisa,Luke,Dara, and Jeff Spradling 5742 Shattuck Rd. Belvidere, Il. 61008 815-544-0167
Surviving another day. Posts: 626 | From: Belvidere, IL USA | Registered: Jul 2000
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posted
I don't care if someone thinks I'm bitchin' or not -- they're not payin' my bills or runnin' my business. This is clearly a problem that has surfaced and is going to affect a number of people. I can see that by the number of posts from people who have experienced problems with this vinyl, that this is not going to just go away. Those of us affected the most have every right to bitch and demand some answers.
It appears this was brought to the company's attention some time ago, and the necessary adjustments weren't made by them. By the pictures and the results I've seen, THIS IS NOT NORMAL SHRINKAGE! My distributor has told me Avery will honor the warranty on their product, but that complaints are spotty -- sort of off the cuff and casual like. So quit your bitchin' life goes on.
I think a lot of bitchin' is what's needed, otherwise, a whole bunch of people are going to experience these undesirable results, and once again sign people are going to have to apologize. Now that we have this board and its strength in numbers, let's take advantage of it.
I'm sittin' on a huge inventory of A8 for a 2 person shop. My choices are: do I continue using a vinyl that has a history of excessive shrinkage all the while knowing that I may have to replace it and take a chance that I will lose a valuable customer. Or do I quarantine the vinyl and use another brand. The company may honor the product which they have said they would, but you also have the labor to remove the product, the labor to cut, mask and reapply the new product, and probably the most overlooked problem of all is you have to reschedule all that work. This latter scenario made it a no brainer for me -- I'd be a fool not to go with another brand.
In the meantime I would still like to know:
1. Does this excessive shrinkage cause the vinyl to fail ahead of its time? In certain cases, such as with distance signs a glue line won't matter provided the vinyl lasts to its intended life span.
2. If # 1 is not true, can the glue line be removed without compromising the longevity of the vinyl with a product such as Rapid Remover? This would be the best case scenario and be an important remedy for an unsightly glue line on a project that is viewed close up.
3. Is there a simple in house test that the company would suggest we try to determine if a particular roll of vinyl is bad? I'm assuming here that not all of the vinyl is bad, but maybe I'm wrong, maybe it's a color or lot #. There appears to be several colors involved from prior replies. The company has not provided that information. I have contacted the company to find this out. They have not gotten back to me.
4. What causes the excessive shrinkage? Is there a application fluid that can be used to minimize this?
You know you've got to be strong sometimes to get satisfaction and there's nothing wrong with demanding quality when your customers demands it from you. If I'm worring about nothing, then let the company contact us all and say so. Big company or not I'll stand tall over in my little area of the world and continue to seek answers and I hope others do too. If you feel we're beatin' a dead horse here then don't boot up this post.
-------------------- Bill Diaz Diaz Sign Art Pontiac IL www.diazsignart.com Posts: 2107 | From: Pontiac, IL | Registered: Dec 2001
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I have, many times, had to remove part of a lettering job (to change phone numbers or whatever). I use Rapid Remover to get the old adhesive off. It, of course, runs down and over the remaining lettering and I was always concerned that it would cause that remaining lettering to lift and curl. To this day I have never had that happen, and I have been doing this, occasionally, for the last decade. I have never once had a customer report any problems as a result of using Rapid Remover to do what you describe.
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
posted
Bill - I think you're right to quarantine vinyl you feel is affected. Makes perfect sense, as does a temporary change in vinyl....
but I , personally, would not let this tarnish future purchases from Avery AFTER they have remedied the situation....Avery is an outstanding vinyl producer and I'm sure they are actively seeking a remedy...and through their distributors will take care of present issues of failure.
Logic tells me that if the vinyl shrinks back leaving a 'glue trail'.....that the glue had to have been removed from the shrinking vinyl...most likely at the perimeter edge of shrinkage. Chances are then highly likely the edge of the applied (and shrunken) graphic will exhibit premature failure such as lifting at the edge. This is not a technical evaluation, but my opinion.
It could be adequate glue remains along the shrunken edge to keep the graphic adhered for a reasonable length of time. Avery could best determine that.
I would carefully remove as much of a glue line as possible with Rapid Remover as Dave suggests WITH the strong caution to remove the glue close to BUT NOT up to the edge of the vinyl.
If you put any adhesive removing solvent or chemical into contact along the edge of the vinyl you will certainly begin to cause even more degradation of the adhesive than what might already have been done due to shrinkage.
To determine if rolls you currently have on hand are bad....you would have to run samples through accelerated testing equipment....which Avery has but I'm sure you don't.....as a jury-rigged test, you might cut a sample of your vinyl and stick it to a horizonatal (facing upwards) surface which gets direct sun.....while keeping the suspect vinyl under quarantine.
And finally, the cause of the problem? That would be very technical and could involve the liner/ and the liner coatings as they interact with the vinyl adhesive...or it could be the adhesive itself or a number of highly technical explanations that only Avery's chemists/lab techs can discover. It's anyone's guess.
Hope all turns out well for you....and eventually, it WILL be worked out and they'll be better than ever.
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
I don't know when they first heard about this but it appears that they have changed the adhesive and it is only vinyl that was manufactured in a certain period of time that is faulty. While that window of time does seem excessive I do not know the facts. I am sure that Avery is concerned with their products reputation, as any manufacturer would be. I understand they are dealing with things on an individual basis, they have asked that anyone with problems contact their supplier. I have not as yet heard of them refusing to honour their warranty. I'm not sure exactly what they are expected to do. In this day of legal suits it would be suicide for them to publically announce that they will compensate everyone for the labour and materials for every project that comes under suspicion. I believe that your best route for compensation would be to deal with this directly with the supplier. At the very least I think you could probably get any suspicious vinyl in stock replaced. Other than that I suspect each failure will have to be negotiated individually. One of my big concerns is that if things get too out of hand with this that they may just decide that there reputation here is irreparably damaged and back off. I admire the way Jeff brought this post up without pointing any fingers originally. When a pattern started forming he then explained why he had asked the questions. I think he has been very diplomatic. I'd like to see the rest of us follow in that line. Yeah we have the potential to publically tarnish the Avery line. I'm not yet sure they really deserve it...... I'm not going to try and bash some of the "wonder brands", suffice it to say that I have not found them to be totally flawless either. The simple truth is I really like a lot of the Avery vinyl qualities and if they deal with me in a reasonable manner with any issues I have, I will continue to trust it. Like I mentioned before - we live in a trial and error world - when life threatning things like medications, vehicles, water supplies are causing the lost of life through human error, vinyl failure does not seem quite as dramatic. Talk to your suppliers folks.....
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5496 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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posted
I had a regional rep call and say this has been blown way out of proportion and that out of all the vinyl that is made, the failure of some films is in line with what is normal for such an industry, and that it is a miniscule amount. According to him -- there is no recall, no bad lot numbers and no need to adjust anything.
On the other hand, I'm hearing different stories from some other heads. So we're taking a precautionary stance, quarantining suspicious rolls and running our own tests. We also have a list of jobs within a short radius that were completed within the time frame where we first noticed a defective film. We're checking on them and taking pictures of any bad results.
I will let all know what we find out. The company seems more than willing to honor any failures with A8 and have a claims process to follow. Kelly, I am remaining optimistic, but what concerns me now is hearing these different stories. Who do you believe? The company not wanting to reply in full, because of advice from their legal team, etc., bothers me, if it's true. What's the true skinny. It's easy to be scarred of a big corporation, but if there is a problem, then a lot of people will be affected -- some more than others.
-------------------- Bill Diaz Diaz Sign Art Pontiac IL www.diazsignart.com Posts: 2107 | From: Pontiac, IL | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
I was just thinking. If the bad rolls are shrinking on the rolls like some of the pictures showed, why not do like Bill is going to do and quarrantine the rolls for a while. If they don't shrink they should be fine. If they DO shrink, would the shrinking be done and the roll be good to go after that? The only thing we would need to know is how long to quarrantine to see whether or not it is going to shrink.
-------------------- Dave Sherby "Sandman" SherWood Sign & Graphic Design Crystal Falls, MI 49920 906-875-6201 sherwoodsign@sbcglobal.net Posts: 5397 | From: Crystal Falls, MI USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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posted
I agree that sometimes it is hard to know what to trust, Bill. One thing I have learnt is that there are some people who frequent this board who have to be right all the time - and I'm not pointing fingers at any one in particular - over time it becomes apparant.
I am concerned that sometimes brand loyalty is carried to the extent that it justifies bashing the competition and stretching the truth.
There is obviously a problem here, but I find it hard to believe it is as massive as it is made out to be. Avery has been my main "premium" brand over for a long time now and I'm not seeing a big problem in the vinyl that I have used. Being from an area of extreme climate changes - I would have expected to be hit hard. I'm wondering if the failures are mainly on vinyl that has been adhered to vehicles - if that is the case is it possible that heat buildup and washing could have magnified the problem? I haven't done many vehicles so this could be one explanation.
I talked to my supplier and this was the first concern they had heard from anyone. That just doesn't make sense if an entire years stock is faulty.
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5496 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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posted
Kelly, I hope it wasn't my post that made it seem it was an entire year's worth of vinyl. I apologize if it was and will try to clarify my statements.
If the lot #s that were posted are the ones with the problems, then yes, that is a year's worth of lot numbers. But what I've discovered from talking with several other heads about this is it isn't necessarily EVERY roll in those lot #s. You may have 2 rolls of 4B vinyl, one black, one green. The green may be fine while the black is shrinking.
I also hope my starting the other thread about the vinyl issue wasn't taken as bashing 3M. It wasn't intended to be, I just used 3M as an example because of it's popularity. A lot of people have been bashing avery for this whether they use it or not and I was trying to make the point that other manufacturer's haven't been perfect. If they haven't had any problems, perhaps jumping ship to them before we see how avery handles this could just be setting yourself up for another problem when the "new" brand has a problem, which only seems enevitable, looking at the odds.
-------------------- Chris Welker Wildfire Signs Indiana, Pa Posts: 4254 | From: Indiana, PA | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
I am a little surprised that some of you use a 1/4 inch overlap. I never use more than a 1/8 overlap.....it's just the way I learned. My old boss would point at large overlaps and tell me that was a no-no. I suppose if the vinyl is shrinking, the wider overlap is valuable. Using Gerber has allowed me to keep a consistant 1/8. Just a side thought.
""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3485 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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We're taking some pictures of aluminum clad trailers, aluminum signs, windows and vehicles to see if maybe a certain substrate is causing this. For the last 6 mos, though, our plotter has been picking up excessive glue on the wheels. This is probably a result of a glue edge left behind from shrinking and running the wheels near the edge.
The fact remains, if the company feels there is no problem, then they will not be investigating or making necessary adjustments. According to my rep there is no problem and never has been one. I'm hearing a different story from other heads and on this board. What's up with that?
-------------------- Bill Diaz Diaz Sign Art Pontiac IL www.diazsignart.com Posts: 2107 | From: Pontiac, IL | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
Bill I would contact your local rep again and give them, alot of greif, I mean look at it this way...
Avery has said that there is a problem right here in this forum, so therefore either your vendor is ignorant or theyre trying to cover their butts becuase they just dont have a clue. Either way,I wouldnt feel comfortable dealing with them anymore if that is how they intend to deal with product reliability issues.
Many Avery vendors have already buttne the bullet and agreed to help their customers resolve the problem.
I find it very upsetting that some vendors wish to keep their heads in the sand about this problem, and hope that it might go away. I for one wouldnt let it die until I at least get some sort of reasonable compensation from someone, whether it is only replacement product or product and labor too. I didnt get into this business to give my money and my time away and then tarnish my reputation too.
-------------------- Harris Kohen K-Man Pinstriping and Graphix Trenton, NJ "Showing the world that even I can strategically place the pigment where its got to go." Posts: 1739 | From: Trenton, NJ, USA | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
warrenties are from the manufacturer anyway... Avery needs to take care of the distributor anyway... all the dustributor stands to lose is the customers business... forever! For what? to get out of the hassle of collecting from Avery? If plan A with the distributor fails, can't you just go right past the distributor & call in the manufacturer warrenty issue directly from the source?
posted
Came to the office this morning -- we're remodeling, and on the way I stopped to take a peek at 3 jobs done within the last 6 mos. Everyone of them shows shrinkage. Some colors worse than others, and it shows up on white worse than others. The rep & distributor will be getting another call and pictures will be coming. If others don't come forward, the company will probably assume there isn't a problem, just some whiners.
I think having this brought to my attention via this board has made me realize the value of the board. I'm wondering how many other shops are not aware of a problem. I don't know the technical reason for this shrinkage. The company has chosen to not offer an explanation. They claim that there is a process we need to follow so they can honor their warranty.
I know it's not acceptable in this shop, because all along I assumed I was buying the best vinyl and I was willing to pay a premium price. I never haggled with anyone on price, I just wanted the best. This isn't going away.
-------------------- Bill Diaz Diaz Sign Art Pontiac IL www.diazsignart.com Posts: 2107 | From: Pontiac, IL | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
Now you can see why I'm so nervous. Most of my stuff is at least 3 colors stacked. I've got trucks all over Northern Illinois. I've got some airbrush with HOK on a lot of them. This one has a 1/4" halo and you can see edges coming up, etc. The gray around the black is the glue halo. The job was done this May.
[ November 15, 2004, 06:35 AM: Message edited by: Bill Diaz ]
-------------------- Bill Diaz Diaz Sign Art Pontiac IL www.diazsignart.com Posts: 2107 | From: Pontiac, IL | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
Avery "e-z" has been a problem since early this year (according to several of my end users) I started getting calls from customers in the field about de-lamination as well as shrinkage, they wondered if it was caused by the Rapid Tac or TacII.
After duplicating they're procedures, we found it to be an adhesive problem, and made mention of this on other sites.
Too many calls came in on this for it to go "unnoticed" by the industry.
Just my findings.
Roger
-------------------- Roger Bailey Rapid Tac Incorporated 186 Combs Dr. Merlin Oregon 97532 Posts: 3020 | From: Merlin Oregon | Registered: Dec 1998
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posted
This should work Greg. You have to be carefull about the characters you use and spaces etc. Edit to add. Is the vinyl that you guys are having problems with all using the new ez (re-positionable) adhesive?
posted
I've only used 6 or 7 rolls of EZ but every one of them has shrinkage. Out of 30 rolls of A8 on my rack only one has shrinkage showing on the roll. No shrinkage noticed on the A6.
-------------------- Mark Perkins Performance Signs & Graphics Eunice, Louisiana "The heart of Cajun Country" Posts: 506 | From: Eunice Louisiana 70535 | Registered: Nov 1998
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quote:The company has chosen to not offer an explanation. They claim that there is a process we need to follow so they can honor their warranty.
I think it would be a great idea, & necessary thing, for you or the company to type out in a reply on this thread, specifically what that 'process' is . . . . .
(unless of course, they have no 'process' and this was simply a 'delay' comment, in which case, they should admit that tactic)
posted
I just got out a roll of Cardinal Red Avery A8 yesterday to cut. There are little sticky glue "boogers" here and there along the edges of the material. I cut it anyway. When I called my supplier the other day and ordered Calon II instead of Avery, I asked them if they had heard any complaints. They seemed surprized and said they'd "look into it". I won't hold my breath. Love....Jill
-------------------- That is like a Mr. Potato Head with all the pieces in the wrong place. -Russ McMullin Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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posted
That's it, Jill! Keep an eye on that job because unless it is a temporary piece, you will probably be replacing it in about 6 months. We did call the representative of the company in our area and he is supposed to come down here to see what is happening. I have gone around the area to photograph jobs that we suspect are problems and sure enough, they are! Our problem is we have work in probably a 75 mile radius because of our heavy semi truck trade. We have several rolls that are like you describe, Jill. We have ordered close to $2000 worth of new vinyl and have quarantined all the Avery in a corner to see if it shrinks on the roll. We have started to contact customers that we know or suspect are having a problem. The regional rep said that proceedure to follow would be to take pictures of the work and fill out a claims report with the distributor we bought the vinyl form on each failure. AND in our case we deal with three different distributors so we will have to prove who we bought what from. They are getting more complaints. But the sticky rolls with gummy stuff on the edge are VERY suspicious and I would hold off using them till you can see if they are going to shrink any more, just to be on the safe side.
-------------------- Jane Diaz Diaz Sign Art 628 W. Lincoln Ave. Pontiac, Il. 61764 815-844-7024 www.diazsignart.com Posts: 4102 | From: Pontiac, IL USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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I just paid a visit to my supplier and returned a bunch of A8. They accepted all of the bum material and will credit my account.
There were a few colors that they would not give credit on but "swapped them out" because it was not on their bad batch list of colors. I did this as a safety measure and piece of mind. In this instance they were Metallics.
They also said Avery reps came and cleared their shelves. Replacing all defective material that was manufactured in an 8 month period starting around the new year and claiming it is safe to start using the brand again after the supplier's materials have been replaced. Think I'll wait a month or two before/if I switch back.
I do love the Avery line and would like to continue using it.
Still not 100% sure of being reimbursed for repacement work. They said yes about replacing materials, not sure how they will comp the time. Carefully track all time!!!
This was all made much easier by sending them a few pics of the defective work/materials in the beginning.
So far the cusomers I spoke with have been very understanding. Need to redo a couple to start and a few passed on the offer but appreciated being asked anyway.
Best of luck.
-------------------- Alan Ackerson LetterWorks Design and Graphics alan@ack2.com Posts: 776 | From: Oak Ridge, NJ | Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
Alan, Would you happen to have a copy of that bad batch list? My vendor and my Avery rep both say that no vinyl is being picked up When will you know if Avery will cover the labor to remove and replace?
-------------------- Mark Perkins Performance Signs & Graphics Eunice, Louisiana "The heart of Cajun Country" Posts: 506 | From: Eunice Louisiana 70535 | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
That's just it, my vendor says no vinyl is being collected from their store either, Mark. I don't think it's going to benefit Avery to do one thing here and a different thing there. They need to get on the same page, because folks are getting p***ed. I'd also like a color list.
My problem has been we have 3 different vendors we buy A8 from, because of the semi trade we are always trying to jockey for different colors to accomodate customers who come from far away. When one has a color back ordered we have had to use another vendor to get the film in on time. So according to my rep, I have to get it all straight as far as what color came from where. It's going to be a nightmare of paper work.
-------------------- Bill Diaz Diaz Sign Art Pontiac IL www.diazsignart.com Posts: 2107 | From: Pontiac, IL | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
Alan, on the "still waiting... need to do the work first" comment re: requesting compensation for lost time, I would throw this angle at them...
your client is paying you to do the job RIGHT... so the up-coming RE-do is paid for by the client... The labor that Avery needs to pay for is already done, & claims should be processed NOW based on hours you claim now.
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