posted
While I have every respect for Mr. Latigo, I would have to differ with him and would suggest that his location may have shielded him from encountering the problem.
I rarely use Avery but two friends in the business in my area (South Florida) do and have both had so many problems with A8 shrinking that they have discontinued them. BTW, they have a combined experience of just under 40 years and had previously been avid Avery supporters.
One told me that his Avery rep told him the problem is roughly limited to states east of the Mississippi.
-------------------- Fred Weiss Allied Computer Graphics, Inc. 4620 Lake Worth Road Lake Worth, FL 33463 561 649-6300 allcompu@allcompu.com Posts: 427 | From: Lake Worth, Florida | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
Sorry. He's already left for Lost Paririe. Please understand that he's been through this more than once that I know of and other than an isolated case, none of it ever proved to amount to much. You really should call the Northwest reps phone number. He's been in touch with the plant all day on this and he told Dad that the plant is reading this thread right now. I'll ask if he'll answer but he's wierd about the internet these days. He mostly stays off except his own forum.
posted
I just got off the phone with my Avery rep, he says he's only heard of isolated shrinkage problesm and that Avery has not recalled any vinyl. One of the other posters here called me this morning and their rep told them that everything produced in July was recalled, my rep had never heard of that. I'd love to know what Jeff's rep had to say.
-------------------- Mark Perkins Performance Signs & Graphics Eunice, Louisiana "The heart of Cajun Country" Posts: 506 | From: Eunice Louisiana 70535 | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I have had three trucks come by recently and noticed the line of glue, like pictured above, around the letters. Installation has been the same as usual. I checked Lot#s and they match the ones mentioned above.
I went this afternoon to take pictures of other signs and trucks. Yep, there is a problem.
I have several jobs with Signgold over the A8 black, used as a shadow. I'm nervous about going to look at those trucks. VERY expensive to make it right with the customers when dealing with Signgold.
I realize there are problems from time to time with all products. But if I do something wrong, I try to fix it and make it right with the customer.
What will the supplier and Avery do about this problem?
Pam
-------------------- Pam Eddy Niles, MI ple@qtm.net Posts: 460 | From: Michigan | Registered: Dec 2000
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posted
I reached him on his cell phone. He'll read the thread and answer when he's done in the recording studio late this afternoon. He does know a bit about installing. Thanks.
posted
Latigo, Since your dad seems to have some Avery connections show him this, the picture shows how much shrinkage from the edge of the liner....it also shows that installation is NOT the problem in this case.It did this on both sides and the end that was cut so thats 1/2" shrinkage across the roll and 1/4" on the end that was cut on a 24" roll. I had this problem with four different colors,three had the code 3D, the other was 3G. I sent samples of this vinyl to Avery and they gave me credit for the rolls, so I'm assuming there was something wrong with it,they won't tell me what though, maybe they will tell your dad? And maybe not, three of us in this thread have talked with our Avery reps and we all are getting different stories. They all seem eager to get the problem resolved which will let me sleep a little better tonight.
-------------------- Mark Perkins Performance Signs & Graphics Eunice, Louisiana "The heart of Cajun Country" Posts: 506 | From: Eunice Louisiana 70535 | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I too contacted my supplier today and led him to the Letterville post...I'll be talking to himMonday to see what he found out.
Since I don't use Avery I don't have any problems...however if they cut back the Gerber and 3m products I'll be foreced to... so I find this thread very interesting and hopefully it will keep me out of trouble.
Thanx everyone for the heads-up.
I'm glad others have made contact with Avery and their suppliers ...maybe they can see this is something that needs to be addressed ...if we're real lucky maybe they will come here and discuss it. I hope they find this info useful and realize that this is not a conspiracy ...just a lot of people from all over the map having the same problem...it sure makes it unlikely that it is coincidence.
-------------------- "Werks fer me...it'll werk fer you"
posted
I'll be back monday morning. A friend of mine works in the lab at Avery and he's looking into things for me immediately. I really don't like breaching Board etiquette because I'm not a member here and I don't permit it on my own Board, but I'll post one last time on monday with lab results and my take on installation and the pictures. Thank you
posted
I've sent back about 4 rolls of Avery hp vinyl. Avery knows there is a problem and they are trying to fix it. (At least that's what my distributor is telling me.)
-------------------- Jean Shimp Shimp Sign & Design Co. Jacksonville Beach, Fl Posts: 1267 | From: Jacksonville Beach, Fl. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Is it possible they are trying to pass off calendered vinyl as cast?
As far as I know the production process involved with Cast Vinyl does not provide for any possible shrinkage.
Calendered vinyl on the other hand is (from what I've been told) spread out from the middle and retains some "memory" which causes it to shrink.
Being the semi-conspiracy-theorist that I am, is it possible that Avery is able to give the suppliers a better kickback or profit margin, because they are actually providing calendered instead of cast material? how would we know the difference?
or is this just a case of a "bad batch"?
-------------------- -------------------- Dave Cox C2 Media Services (Formerly That Sign Guy) dave@c2mediaservices.com -------------------- Full Color Printing Posts: 295 | From: Sacramento CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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I also don't understand what is going on with this Avery issue. Many of us have been told it is an issue with the adhesive. I told the rep that was at my place I didn't understand how an adhesive problem could cause the shrinkage. To which he replied...he was not a tech person and did't really know what was causing the problem.
From what I understand the Avery people are aware of this post and have been monitoring it.
On behalf of all the concerned lettering people here, if I may, I would ask that someone from Avery respond here and give us some true information about what is going on with this issue.
The suppliers and manufacturers must understand that in this day and age and with the wonderful tool known as the internet and places like Letterville we can no longer be told that we are the only one with a particular problem.
SOMEONE PLEASE give us some straight answers!
Thank you Jeff
-------------------- Jeff's Lettering Lisa,Luke,Dara, and Jeff Spradling 5742 Shattuck Rd. Belvidere, Il. 61008 815-544-0167
Surviving another day. Posts: 626 | From: Belvidere, IL USA | Registered: Jul 2000
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posted
EXCELLENT that Avery people are monitering this post . . . . .and rightly so. . . .
Bear in mind that the people who have mentioned the problem are simply those who WILL speak and post replies, but there are a LOT of people who READ such threads all the time, everyday who do not post.
There are also a whole lot of sign people who are not on the net, but who are in contact with those who are....who swap information.
THEN there's a whole 'nuther group of people who use other brands, or, who are looking at brands who need even less material problems than these mentioned to shy away from a poor product REGARDLESS of the explaination for poor quality, and very often, regardless of the cheap price...
Don'cha hate that old saying..."bad news travels fast" . . .?
The thing is, I'm very proud that material suppliers are beginning to realize and accept those of us in the sign industry as viable, serious, business people who do strive for excellence and therefore expect and demand it from the materials we use. . . .
A little quality-promoting . . . quality-control . . . proof-is-in-the-puddin' reality, and good ol' American competition never hurts my feelin's . .or any economy . . .
-------------------- Signs Sweet Home Alabama
oneshot on chat
"Look like a girl, act like a lady, think like a man, work like a dog" Posts: 5758 | From: "Sweet Home" Alabama | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
According to a friend of mine, who has had all of his Avery A8 taken back by his distributor, what he was told is that the problem relates to an attempt by Avery to duplicate 3M's adhesive which has gone wrong.
We both conclude that what is happening is a chemical reaction between the adhesive and the vinyl film. The adhesive is staying in place and the film is shrinking away from it.
-------------------- Fred Weiss Allied Computer Graphics, Inc. 4620 Lake Worth Road Lake Worth, FL 33463 561 649-6300 allcompu@allcompu.com Posts: 427 | From: Lake Worth, Florida | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
Just wanted to throw a THANK YOU in here to Barb and Steve. To me it's times like this that truly make sites like this one of the best tools in our current sign industry.
Without sites like this many of us would be left to think we're the only ones with a problem.
Also as others have said...you can print this out to show your customers you're not the only one with this vinyl failure.
THANK YOU!!!!
Jeff
-------------------- Jeff's Lettering Lisa,Luke,Dara, and Jeff Spradling 5742 Shattuck Rd. Belvidere, Il. 61008 815-544-0167
Surviving another day. Posts: 626 | From: Belvidere, IL USA | Registered: Jul 2000
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posted
I spent the weekend writing down Lot numbers, going through the list of customers I have worked for in the last year, and driving around looking at vehicles I lettered in the last year.
I am very interested in seeing how Avery and my supplier address this issue that has been brought up on the Bullboard.
Pam
-------------------- Pam Eddy Niles, MI ple@qtm.net Posts: 460 | From: Michigan | Registered: Dec 2000
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posted
On the lot #s, does it matter if the second letter is a capital or a lower case? I have 4A (metallic), 4F and 4G, but I also have 4c and 4e. Just curious. I haven't noticed any problems, tho. YET! Love....Jill
-------------------- That is like a Mr. Potato Head with all the pieces in the wrong place. -Russ McMullin Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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posted
I just spoke with my supplier here in Jersey. They are aware of the shrinking problem and will make good on it. She did mention that they've only had calls about the black and white rolls, no others so far...
Thanks Jeff for bringing this to everyone's attention.
[ November 08, 2004, 11:10 PM: Message edited by: Alan Ackerson ]
-------------------- Alan Ackerson LetterWorks Design and Graphics alan@ack2.com Posts: 776 | From: Oak Ridge, NJ | Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
If this is an isolated problem, let's say, rather than a total brand problem, will the vinyl fail prematurely -- before 8 years? In the cases where there is a glue line left behind and a customer wants it taken care of, can that line be removed with Rapid Remover and the film still stay in place, or will that film fail prematurely causing installers to have to not only do the job over, but have to remove the defective film as well. That would truly be a nightmare.
99% of the film we use is A8, and I'm a little nervous about this post. I, too, am hoping the Avery folks will enter into this discussion and either make confessions or advise us how to handle the situation. This could make or break some businesses, if the films are going to fail before they are expected to.
Say it ain't so Joe, because you can fool some of the folks some of the time and some of the folks all of the time, but you can't fool the big dogs -- already on the porch.
-------------------- Bill Diaz Diaz Sign Art Pontiac IL www.diazsignart.com Posts: 2107 | From: Pontiac, IL | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
Like someone else did above, I had the same problem with ATSM (American Traffic Safety Materials) vinyl. It was supposed to be cast vinyl and I only had trouble with black and sapphire blue. And no...the vinyl isn't that cheap. It's supposed to be superduper-better-than-everyoneelse's stuff. They replaced the vinyl but I didn't get any explanation as to why it happened. I use mostly Arlon now and haven't had any problems with it so far. But, since I have used Avery on a few fairly recent jobs, this has me concerned.
[ November 08, 2004, 03:02 PM: Message edited by: Wayne Webb ]
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7404 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
How many of you actually take the time to write down lot numbers off the material rolls? I don't. So, get a copy of Jeff's spread sheet and use it! Knock on wood, I had very few vinyl failures during my career. Most weren't even worth reporting. One time, I had a failure with Avery vinyl. My distributor made good on the vinyl and tried to get Avery to reimburse us for the lost time. The communications with Avery fell on deaf ears. All because I didn't document the lot numbers of the materials used. Needless to say, that Avery distributor lost thousands of dollars worth of my annual business because of this fiasco. A good distributor wouldn't think twice about replacing the bad material. Plus, they would go to bat for you when it comes to the additional cost for your labor to replace the graphics too - with or without lot numbers. Sure, it may cost a little more for better service, but look at it as purchasing an insurance policy for your work.
Havin' fun,
Checkers
-------------------- a.k.a. Brian Born www.CheckersCustom.com Harrisburg, Pa Work Smart, Play Hard Posts: 3775 | From: Harrisburg, Pa. U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I'd just like a straight answer as to when the problematic stuff was made. Hell, I'd be happy with hearing the same answer to that question twice, from 2 different people.
I was told it was made in July. I did my truck in June, using A8 black for the tagline, town & it has shrunk pretty good.
Then I was told the lot# corresponded to year and month so 4A would be January 2004. If that's the case, we're looking at a year's worth of vinyl & jobs out there.
My rep told me to look at my Lot #s (Guess I'll start refusing rolls that don't have that on them) and he'd give my suppliers a heads-up to make exchanging it easier. That's great & I applaud Avery for trying to make it right...
But, can someone PLEASE tell us when the problematic rolls were produced so we can narrow down what jobs we need to look at?
-------------------- Chris Welker Wildfire Signs Indiana, Pa Posts: 4254 | From: Indiana, PA | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
Is the vinyl actually delaminating to the point it is falling off the application substrate? Or is it merely shrinking back a smidge?
I'd be more concerned about this issue if you have experienced blatant failure. I'm not sure many customers would even notice or take offense if they saw the vinyl shrank an 1/8 inch?
However, I guess the worry is probably that, "if the adhesive is showing on the substrate, then it must have been removed from the vinyl....and most likely from the edge where it is the most vulnerable to the elements in the first place."
I hope it isn't the kiss of death to an install. I just started using Avery exclusively a while back because I just LOVE the easy as butter cutting and weeding it offers.
I probably don't do nearly the amount of installs as most of you, but I haven't noticed any problems myself.
Hope it all works out....there's nothing worse than fear of a failure after you did everything by the book, just to find that it might have been in vain.
Good luck all.
Edit: I just checked a few of my rolls......I have a 4F, 4E, and a 4K.....the 4F and 4E are on the list provided earlier in the post. None of them display any of the receeding or shrinking characteristics on the roll. Fingers crossed here.
posted
I use mostly Avery and I'm sure I must have used plenty that came from those lots. I don't think it's every roll of vinyl that was made in that period. I have noticed some shrinkage on black, yellow and white. The white was easier to weed if you let it sit for a couple of days, because the line seperated a little. I have tons of vinyl scraps around and went through them - lots of the Avery showed no signs of it and a couple of brands that were not Avery had some shrinkage. I'm going to call the suppliers I use and have them do a quick check of their inventory for signs of shrinking, then I'll have a better idea of how this is going to affect me. I'm glad that there are no reports of peeling vinyl - that would concern me a lot more, I've had trouble with that before, but given it was one of the "trusted" brands it must have been my fault Time will tell how all this is going to play out. Untill I know, I'm not going to lose any sleep on it. That wouldn't help anyhow.
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5496 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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posted
I wanted to show what started me asking about the shrinkage and glue halo.
All of the photos I'm going to show here were applied dry with all of the usual prep techniques I have used for years.
I posted pics of this trailer when I did it in May of this year. The graphic is 27' long and 5' high. I liked to died when a walked by it almost 2 weeks ago! The blue and white are A8 the green that looks good as new is FDC.
This is at one of the seams...I pull all the screws out...apply the vinyl...then cut the vinyl along the seam.
This was a 1/4" overlap
1/4" glue halo
This is from a trailer I did in Jan. of this year. The blue is A8, the gray which is fine is 851 Oracal.
I did this truck and trailer in May of this year. The black is A8, orange and yellow is A4. (A4 is the most opaque over black I can find)
This is a police car I did in Aug of this year all colors are A8...white is Reflective A7.
I have more pics of more VINYL FAILURE!
None of these are a matter of IF I have to redo them but WHEN I redo them. I'm with Bill D. How do you get the glue off of these and not affect the "good" vinyl that doesn't necessarily need to be changed...YA DON'T!
As to if the customer would notice the glue halo...I have over a 20 year reputation of producing the highest quality lettering job I can. The nasty...dirty 1/8" to 3/8" glue halo on a job that is less than a year old...only 2 months old in some cases is NOT acceptable to me. Nor is a 3/8" gap at every seam on a trailer lettering job. Not to mention my fear of what it might look like as a little more time goes by.
This is not what I had in mind when I bought and applied 8 year Vinyl!
Jeff
-------------------- Jeff's Lettering Lisa,Luke,Dara, and Jeff Spradling 5742 Shattuck Rd. Belvidere, Il. 61008 815-544-0167
Surviving another day. Posts: 626 | From: Belvidere, IL USA | Registered: Jul 2000
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I don't think this is just A8. Just to try out the ez I use my own vehicle for a test dummy and after printing a large print with my edge and installing it using A6 EZ white in 3 months I had some nice adhesive lines. I never got those with oracal 651 or any of the Gerber 3M stuff. It has only been this year that this has happened. My other A8 projects have been fine. I'll give my distributor a chat tomorrow.
-------------------- Brian Diver PDQ Signs Everett, Wa
Well I checked my rolls because I do have some of my boxes around I have some black that is 4g (little g if there is a difference) that roll on the roll seems to be fine.
Then I have a Beige roll that is 3J (large J) and it is pulling back from the sides of the roll. I can actually peel the glue from the sides with my finger and it seems very soft.
Worst part is that while cutting I kept hearing it it separate as it pulled from the roll I just thought it was rolled tight or because of humidity.
AND I have just delivered a larger job for the City that while it looks great now will kill me if that vinyl fails. Two large post signs and 5 A Frame Sandwich signs all with this vinyl that is apparantly failing. Plus it's on gloss acrylic latex which in my mind just increases the chances for it to fail especially if it is the glue.
I mean I'm a fairly new business trying to put out good work and make a great first impression. If this is some fault of Avery's then there is no way they can fix a bad impression on customers with replacement vinyl.
But they do need to fix the situation or at least address it, until they do I ain't using no more Avery. Can't risk my reputation on their lack of service even if it is not their fault they need to give some explanations, to all of the concerns voiced here.
This just stinks, I guess I'll do a lot a praying and hoping for the projects that are out.
Some of Advice that I would request from letterheads. Is this something that you would inform the customer of now or just wait it out and check back on the signs every few weeks.
Will call dist. tommorow and see what they say, and get a hold of my regional Avery Rep.
Dave
-------------------- Dave Levesque Angelo Sign 3014 Hemlock San Angelo, TX 76904 Posts: 82 | From: San Angelo, TX | Registered: Jan 2004
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quote:As to if the customer would notice the glue halo...I have over a 20 year reputation of producing the highest quality lettering job I can. The nasty...dirty 1/8" to 3/8" glue halo on a job that is less than a year old...only 2 months old in some cases is NOT acceptable to me. Nor is a 3/8" gap at every seam on a trailer lettering job. Not to mention my fear of what it might look like as a little more time goes by.
Jeff, that really is a good point. I'd have to agree now after seeing the extent of the shrinkage from your pictures.
Beyond the "dirty, ugly" factor of exposed adhesive....I still can't help but think that the exposed adhesive must have been removed from good vinyl...and eventually will cause lifting at least around the edge and premature failure.
I'm surprised you haven't witnessed any edge lifting yet.
You are right. I would definately pursue this. Some of those gaps are huge.
I wonder why some of my rolls with the indicated lot numbers aren't displaying this on the roll? I hope it stays that way. I'm going to question/inform my supplier of this problem too.
I just received a phone call from Avery. For legal reasons they can’t come to this board and post any type of response as to what is going on. Nor can I discuss my conversation with them.
All I can say on their behalf is if you have a complaint, contact your supplier.
Be patient, they are very busy people right now.
Thanks Jeff
-------------------- Jeff's Lettering Lisa,Luke,Dara, and Jeff Spradling 5742 Shattuck Rd. Belvidere, Il. 61008 815-544-0167
Surviving another day. Posts: 626 | From: Belvidere, IL USA | Registered: Jul 2000
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posted
I had an issue with a bad batch of vinyl from Ameriban. I called them, and they confirmed this and not only replaced my vinyl but paid me for my labor of replacing the defective jobs.
Now that's REAL customer support. Think about this when you buy from a small distributor....do they have the money and power to back up a claim such as that?
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
Thumbs up to Ameriban from me too, last year I ordered a 24" and 14" logs of pre-mask, they forgot to put the 24" in the box, I called to let them know the next day then sent my 24....and a extra 24 for good will......that goes a long way with me!
-------------------- Mark Perkins Performance Signs & Graphics Eunice, Louisiana "The heart of Cajun Country" Posts: 506 | From: Eunice Louisiana 70535 | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
My name is Tim Doyle and I am the Technical Service Manager for Avery Dennison. Avery does have a complaint process in place and we highly encourage you to contact your local distributor if you have a problem. Avery Dennison does have a product warranty as stated on each one of our factory cartons. We will stand behind our product as warranted.
Please note that Avery does monitor this site and would like to address the concerns. Please contact your distributor for further communication.
-------------------- Tim Doyle Avery Dennison 8695 Seward Road Hamilton, OH 45011 Posts: 19 | From: Hamilton Ohio | Registered: Jan 2003
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First off, yes, you ARE breaching board policy, so, therefore, your arrogant opinion is really bothering me. Your condesending posts, not only here, but over a year ago when I had a concern with Avery products. You spoke down to me then too. Avery came through, and took care of the problem.
You questioned my installation proceedures even though I have been installing vinyl since 1979.
Fortunately, many sign studios exist even though you are not there to monitor their work. If I have misunderstood your intended message, Please let me know. I feel your tone is condesending to us all as professionals.
""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3488 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
Going through rolls trying to decide what to do. About 75% of my A8 has no core; therefore, no lot #. I'm afraid to use any of it -- based on what I'm reading here -- this thing is monumental. I'm better off and probably dollars ahead setting the rolls off to the side rather than take a chance. The labor involved removing, replacing, rescheduling is a nightmare for us cause we're booked into January as it is -- a solid stream of semi's from a hundred mile radius. I don't know where to begin! I was looking forward to a lavish holiday season, instead you'll probably find me at Wally World searchin' for an economy size jar of Vasoline.
The semi sittin' in the lot right now, I'm going to have to put A8 on, because that's all I've got. I'm jockeyin' for a different brand for tomorrow. Any recommendations? I want the good stuff.
I wish there was a simple test I could run on these rolls to see if they're bad. I hate to throw out that much vinyl.
[ November 10, 2004, 10:12 AM: Message edited by: Bill Diaz ]
-------------------- Bill Diaz Diaz Sign Art Pontiac IL www.diazsignart.com Posts: 2107 | From: Pontiac, IL | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
Like we need more stress.....No one seems to be able to get an answer to this problem! Calling our distributor just gets us "We'll get back to you..." How do we PROVE this is a bad vinyl? If it is shrinking 1/4" now in a few months time, will it continue to shrink and eventually curl up? How soon? We are on the phone as we speak trying to order another brand of vinyl, in a full range of colors no less, from another distributor.....ARE WE HAVING FUN YET!!!
-------------------- Jane Diaz Diaz Sign Art 628 W. Lincoln Ave. Pontiac, Il. 61764 815-844-7024 www.diazsignart.com Posts: 4102 | From: Pontiac, IL USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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posted
I wouldn't throw it all out Bill! Get a scrap peice of Dibond and cut a 2" square of each peice you are suspicious about. Mark the sample and the peice it came from. Then score it in half both horizontally and diagonally and stick it to the Dibond. Set it in the sun and keep an eye on it. It sounds like the vinyl is starting to shrink within a few weeks - if there is no sign of it within that period of time I doubt that it will. You could accelerate the process by throwing it in and out of the freezer and running some hot water over it. Or if you don't want to do that, you can send them to me. I'll use them for masking for paint jobs. I suspect Avery is being very careful about what they say publically. Maybe if you phoned them they would replace any colors you are even suspicious of. It sounds as though they are aware of the problem and have changed the adhesive so they should have good stock to replace it with. Listen Folks - this is not the first material failure that we have had to deal with and definately won't be the last. All though it is a major PITA, we'll all get through it. There are major recalls for safety reasons with vehicles all the time. If I was to refuse to buy a car from any company that had a safety issue with a prior model, because I could no longer trust them, then I'd be walking! Is my and my families safety not far more important than vinyl? I'm not meaning to make light of this, I know it is going to cause some issues for us as sign makers, but I don't think getting worked into a major panic is going to help anything other than cause a few heart attacks. Sorry if I'm being a goody-goody.
[ November 10, 2004, 11:00 AM: Message edited by: Kelly Thorson ]
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5496 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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posted
Take some digital pics of existing jobs gone bad and send them to your distributor. Also take pics of any existing rolls in the shop that are beginning to show the glue/backing paper. Even if its a little bad, its still bad.
If you pull a foot or so off a roll you will hear the glue separating and see strands of the glue sticking to the layer underneath. Looks like chewing gum on your shoe. Another photo there.
Hopeully it will help speed things up for you.
-------------------- Alan Ackerson LetterWorks Design and Graphics alan@ack2.com Posts: 776 | From: Oak Ridge, NJ | Registered: Aug 2002
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