posted
This recent talk of streamlining one's operation is neat, but here's a question: Since I'm always away from my shop, it's hard to meet clients there. If I make appointments, the client often gets delayed.
Going to their location works, but only for a decent size job. Even then, three trips, as in: 1 Initial contact 2 Sketch approval, get deposit, etc. 3 Deliver sign(s). can kill my efficiency. Little signs are out of the question.
Anybody else have to deal with this stuff? Any tips?
There's a little hardware store two doors down, and I have left smaller signs there, but bigger signs would be difficult, and I don't want to strain the relationship.
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
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Schedule times that you will always be in the shop, times that you will always be out of the shop, and commit to them. Schedule site visits only during times you have planned out of the shop, schedule client visits to your office only for times you will be in the shop. If they're late and you have to leave before they show up, sobeit. They're the ones that are late, they need to work around your schedule or at least have an understanding that you have other affairs besides their own to take care of.
I try to accommodate the best I can but I no longer inconvenience myself for others - always get burned that way. Case in point, Tuesday I had an appointment at a customer's shop at 2:30. I was there on time, they weren't. I waited 5-10 minutes, left a note on the door to reschedule then took off. What, I'm supposed to sit there all damn day waiting for people to show up? I already lost an hour from my day driving down there and back home, I have other things that need to be taken care of!
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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cell phones....make this so wonderful....i tell all who are coming to get work done to call me 30 mins or so prior to their estimated arrival. or visa versa....if i got to be at their place. i forward my regular line to my cell phone during the day, this way the only phone number they need is my work number. since iam a mobile shop, no tellin where ill be, but iam usually not more then 15-30 min from the house. my only scheduling problem is mornins....i dont do em.....at lest till 10-11 am!!!!!
[ October 21, 2004, 03:00 AM: Message edited by: old paint ]
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Mikes suggestion sounds real good, but I'm impulsive, sporadic, & I like the freedom to be so. Therefore I do exactly as OP has said & it works very wel for me. My phone tech guy was in for some logo design work I did for him (part trade for running phone & network wiring for the recent office expansion) & an "automation" guy was in at the same time to pick up some RTA door lettering. We got to talking about real futuristic robotic type stuff, then I brought the topic down a little to mention the "invention" I posted wanting on another recent thread... an outdoor "intercom" that actually is a cell phone that calls me when I'm out (but can't be used to call anyone else & run up my bill) ... well lo & behold, the automation guy points out that many doorbell/intercoms in apartments actually are ringing a phone number & that since my cell is accessed when I'm out by forwarding my calls from the office landline anyway... no invention needed... just a matter of installing it. Phone guy says he will locate the componants & be back to hook me up
posted
James, I find that #2 can often be done via email, phone or fax, and #1 also, often.
Maybe half of our work is worked out on measurements given, or an approximation, over the phone, and next time I happen to pass the place, whether at 6.30 am or pm or midday or midnight, I just quickly confirm measurements, snap a digital photo or three, and continue along with no interruption.
We keep at least one tape measure in each van, plus one in the truck, for those unexpected opportunistic times!
I get a fair bit of work from 'out west' where the order comes in & the sign gets done & couriered or freighted out without me meeting the buyer or leaving the shop at all. Deposits aren't a problem. If they don't hesitate to pay a deposit, I'm happy to send the sign with an invoice for the balance & trust them. No one's burnt me this way. (but someone collecting the sign & wanting to pay part now & the rest in two weeks....you're lucky if you ever see the money!)
[ October 21, 2004, 07:39 AM: Message edited by: Ian Stewart-Koster ]
-------------------- "Stewey" on chat
"...there are no limits when you aim for perfection..." Jonathan Livingston Seagull Posts: 7014 | From: Highgrove via Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia | Registered: Dec 2002
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Great tips above...and Doug: That is too cool!
-------------------- Jon Aston MARKETING PARTNERS "Strategy, Marketing and Business Development" Tel 705-719-9209 Posts: 1724 | From: Barrie, ON, CANADA | Registered: Sep 2000
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Collect as many "on site sales calls" as can be handled in an afternoon ...stop by get their info take dimensions take a digital picture and leave.
I try not to quote on site...go back to the shop and as time allows (usually early in the mornings ) I figure bids do sketchs and either fax them or e-mail the results.
I give everyone my cell number (so I don't have to return calls) and request that they either drop by the shop or mail the deposit. Most will do one or the other.
In most cases I have them pick up the sign or make sure we have enough $ in it to deliver it.
Been working pretty good for a long time see no reason to do it any otherway.
Oh ...and we forward our shop phone to the cell if we're out or woking furiously in the shop...that way we are always "in touch" and never have to play phone tag (a big time saver)
Sure we get in a bind from time to time but overall this works for us.
[ October 21, 2004, 09:14 AM: Message edited by: Monte Jumper ]
-------------------- "Werks fer me...it'll werk fer you"
posted
James, I try to schedule all the jobs where I HAVE to go look at something such as walls, site stuff etc. for Mondays....otherwise the customer has to bring it to me after they call and make an appointment for when I'm going to be here and not working on site.
I figure jobs and fax proposals and stuff, or if a down payment is required they either come here or I go by there, for approval/signature/check. Again, just a matter of planning a time when we can meet.
Every trip to town is planned in such a way as to what HAS to be done at certain times, ie; drop-off-pick-up kid at school is a definite set time, so I never waste a trip to town and never back-track across town, but plan errands so I make one circle and get back...so, I explain to the customer when I will be in town and arrange accordingly . . . . LOL and I only live 3 miles out
But I reiterate: I seldom go look at things that THEY can bring or fax to me . . . .
Customer: "Can you stop by and just look at my business card?"
Sheila: "No m'am."
OTHER IDEAS: You would'nt believe the customers I've never met who come by while I'm away... ......
They are referals or friends of my excellent, repeat customers, who have the following arrangement with me as well . . .
After a brief phone conversation, where I take notes on what they want, and give them directions to my shop, they drop off the sign, vehicle, or whatever they want painted, under the big shop porch, along with their directions & phone # with it. (I've already written notes on what they want and their phone number, but I like it that THEY write it again too for confirmation, if I have ANY questions I can always call. . .)
When I fnish the work, I attach an invoice and leave it where they can pick it up. They have a designated place to leave a check.
I come home from on-site jobs and find something there to be done at least once a week . . .
I WOULD feel taken advantage of . . .but I created this system because of scheduling problems in the first place, and for that heavy "tied-down-to-appointments-I'll-totally forget-or-be-late-for" feeling . . . this system is VERY liberating.
Also, the answering machine is for when I'm not in and they KNOW I WILL call them back. I SELDOM give my cell out, but if I'm busy, it has an answering machine too . . .
Another thing that is helpful in my scheduling, is by now, my repeat customers are well-trained in callin' me at LEAST 3 weeks or more, before they need the job done. This has helped reduce my stress level, and theirs greatly . .
PS: There's an excellent post about this very subject from like a year ago . . . I will try to find it and edit-add it on here or PM you with it . . . .
posted
I try to schedule out-of-shop things in groups. Say, Tuesday afternoon I know I need to deliver a sign, I can also swing by and pick up the hardware I need, stop there to get a deposit check.
When I talk with customers, I tell them that I work by appointment, sortof. Then I explain that just means call before they leave to come over to make sure I'm not out on a job or in the middle of a process that can't be stopped once it's started.
I generally don't give out my cell phone number. It's for my convenience, not theirs. I had a customer who insisted on calling my cell phone instead of shop line, wanted to waste 1/2 hour on a conversation that could've been taken care of in 1 sentence running my phone bill up and thought that when he needed to talk with me, I should drop everything, how dare I be in the middle of something more important that listening to him go on and on and on over nothing. I also leave the cell in the truck if I'm at a customer's. My time meeting with them is their time, and answering the cell phone while I'm at their place seems rude, when I'm their, they are the most important thing to me. Phone calls can wait 10 minutes til I'm back in the truck.
-------------------- Chris Welker Wildfire Signs Indiana, Pa Posts: 4254 | From: Indiana, PA | Registered: Mar 2001
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I agree with the clustered appointment thing, we do that too. I agree with Chris on the cell phone issue. There's nothing worse than trying to buy something, and the sales person picks up a phone call....I hate that!
By keeping my number private. That way, my incoming calls are lessened. All business calls go through my office. This also eliminates the "I tried to get you on the phone" story. The ball is intheir court. If they don't leave a message, I cannot call back.
On rare occasions when I have to leave the studio unattended, the phone may be forwarded to my cell phone. I usually leave it in the truck when on sales calls so it dosen't ring in front of a client.......and goes to voice mail.
[ October 21, 2004, 12:20 PM: Message edited by: Rick Beisiegel ]
""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3488 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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Doug, I'm a bit random and sporadic too but my idea of scheduling can vary from day to day.
Example: I like to pick ONE day a week when I do all my shipping to avoid running to the UPS office every day (I don't arrange for pick-ups because I don't like waiting around for them). There are exceptions of course, say if I already have some business or errands in the same area as the UPS office I'll bring whatever is ready to go and take care of it.
Most days I wake up between 6 and 7, get my exercise and I'm back home, fed, and ready for business by 9am. I get online, check email and respond, process orders and credit card payments, return phone calls, check the Bullboard, pick up any materials needed for jobs. This is all finished by noon.
Shut down for an hour lunch, I take no phone calls and schedule no meetings that will interfere with this time.
1pm rolls around and it's time for artwork and production.
So, most days break down like this: 9am-12pm: Basically administrative stuff and handling sales, always in the office at this time unless I gotta pick up materials. 12pm-1pm: Lunch - not available to anyone 1pm-4pm: Busy actually doing the work. Normally meetings are not scheduled for this time but there are exceptions such as the meeting above - and look at that, it burned me too.
4pm-5pm: Dog walk. I never knew dogs could read clocks but it's the damndest thing, 4pm every day on the dot I have a puppy-dog come in and rest her chin on my knee and give me *that look*.
After the dog walk it's time for dinner and my day is officially done. There might be an occassional "after hours" meeting or phone call, I don't mind it.
My take on cell phones:
I had one 12 years ago, when I was 16. (Guess I pioneered the whole teenagers with cell phones thing.)
It was a pain in my side. Yeah, people can always get a hold of you... that was the problem. A select few had my number at first but then it got spread around and before I knew it the phone was more of an annoyance than a convenience, not to mention at the time minutes were WAY more expensive. I kept it shut off then everyone complained they could never reach me, and I realized I wasn't really making any calls out on it so when my contract was up I dropped it. It sucked paying that $60 bill every month too, when the phone wasn't even being used. That's a lot of money to a 16 year old.
Today, people look at me like I'm insane when I tell them I don't have a cell phone. I've thought about getting one then not giving the number out to anyone, but I don't have much need for phones myself so what's the point.
Besides that, I absolutely HATE talking to people on their cell phones. Very few people out there have decent service that doesn't break up on you. I can't believe there are people who think cell phones can replace landlines, the call quality just isn't there.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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One problem I'll have to deal with is my new policy to not fax sketches. Around here a sketch fee is a tough sell, so I've gone to meeting people, and emphasising that all decision makers need to be present. If they want to take the sketch, then there IS a sketch fee. It has worked so far, it was born of necessity, lost too many sketches. Even a "simple" sign layout requires thought, and I'm tired of giving the stuff away.
Still, with the above ideas, I've got alot to work with. Maybe having those guys both show up at Doug's shop at the same time was just a "coincidence", but I've got to wonder. Just because something already exists, doesn't mean it's being properly marketed. So I propose that the intercom/phone hook-up deal be sold nationally, "Yes folks, now you CAN be 'two places at once', Doug's new connect-a-com lets you catch all your clients, before they go to your competitor! It's as close to cloning yourself as you can get. Get yours today, only $39.99 at all major office stores!"
Maybe this should be a separate post, but I had this idea: It's not practical for me to make a showroom right now, but I was thinking of approaching a locally owned restaurant and proposing that I could make some functional/ decorative/display signs for in the dining area. They would have info relevant to the business. Any that were just too plain, or didn't fit into the decor, I could bring samples with me.
That way, I could meet clients there, when informed that I had made the signs on the walls, it would feel more like "my turf". I could buy them tea, maybe even lunch, and it would be a relaxed, sit-down meeting. Some of the signs could be the old rustic distressed signs, which would add to the decor, and could be sold by the restaurant while I wasn't there, for a mark-up of course.
Just an idea I had. Thanks again.
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
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Having just moved into Jeff Crank's shop who I call the King of Redding and within the first week watched him display his magic from one customer to the next totally amazes me. Jeff hand sketches just about every customers wish directly on the spot and at no charge. With over 40 sign shops in Redding and Jeff without a worry in this world, pleases everyone who comes into his place. Even on the road when the job is too big or the client hasn't the time to visit, Jeff schedules his appointment and always brings his sketch pad and I've never seen him lose a job. This shop normally has a 2 month waiting list and is a full program sign shop offering both hand and computer cut signage, carving, airbrushing as well as hand pinstriping by both Jeff and myself.
Jeff Crank started out in this business as a billboard painter and pictorial artist and with that kind of background all thats needed is a money management degree. I am so stoked to be able to work along side a person of his calibre
-------------------- HotLines Joey Madden - pinstriping since 1952 'Perfection, its what I look for and what I live for'
posted
Joey, that reminds me of window splash: show up, make sketch, do window(s), get check, go on.
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
I tell new people that I am a one person shop, a manufacturing facility, and not a retail store. Therefore they need to always call before coming in order to not waste their time, in case I am on an outside job or running errands.
I also have a Real Estate clear plastic box at the door with paper and Sharpies, I write a note telling when I expect to be back and encourage them to write one back. I have a long distance company that is very very cheap, esp on overseas calls which I make a lot, and it is only accessible by a special number. My phone can't make long distance calls without it. Therefore for longer absences I can safely set a phone outside under an awning, and they can reach me on my cell from there. For shorter trips I either forward the main phone to my cell, or just rely on my outgoing message which says I may be running powertools, can't hear the phone, and be right back with them.
The reason I can be relatively casual about it is simply because I try to train my customer from the start who and what set up they are dealing with. I am plenty professional everywhere else to make up for the lack of receptionist etc.
Oh, yes, I also have a glass etch vinyl message on my glass door to the effect that I cannot always be here, since a lot of my work happens away from the base.
All this came from a run- in with a REAL ESTATE person who went ballistic on me because her stupid riders, which were lying 10 inches from the doorbell with her RED name up, and who DID NOT SEE THEM because she was so livid about my not being there when she dropped in to pick them up, before I had even called her to tell her that they were ready.
Which brings me to another rule about training the customers... always tell them to wait for your call. With custom hand made work you just can't predict exactly when ( in the afternoon or morning ) you will be finished.
-------------------- Myra A. Grozinger Signs Limited Winston-Salem, NC
signslimited@triad.rr.com Posts: 1244 | From: Winston-Salem, NC USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Heres a tip... get someone to make you a sign ( )and place it on the door of your business. It should read as follows: _________________________________________________
BUSINESS HOURS OPEN most days about 9 or 10 Occasionally as early as 7, but SOME days As late as 12 or 1 We close about 5:30 or 6 Occasionally about 4 or 5, BUT Sometimes as late as 11 or 12 SOME DAYS OR Afternoons, we aren't here at all, and lately I've been here just about all the time, except when Im someplace else But I should be here then, too. _________________________________________________
-------------------- Steve Dowden _ _ ____ _ _
Sue Avery Signs Kountze, Texas Posts: 14 | From: Lumberton, Texas | Registered: Nov 2003
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posted
The above suggestions are great and we do some of those things mentioned as well.
I like to get my work day started very early...very early so that by noon I have had almost an entire "normal work day" with out to many distractions.
Then I can start slowing down to see customers, order materials or do deliveries, billing, clean up.
A one man shop = a long day. If you can't get your work done for seeing clients, you can't stay in business, and if you get the work done and don't see the next client...you can't stay in business either.
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