posted
If a client asks for the manufacturer and color numbers of the vinyl used in his job "for his records" do you give it to him? Also he originally asked for prices for his boat name, dinghy name, life ring, and a graphic. I ended up doing the name only on his boat. (Wasted a lot of unpaid time on the graphic -- my mistake.) Now he sends me an e-mail wanting me to do the life ring. I really don't want to do it -- and certainly not for the amount I quoted because now it's a separate job! Any suggestions on how to handle this?
-------------------- Dawn Ellis Signs by Dawn Long Beach, CA signsbydawn@aol.com
Trust yourself. Listen to the voice within. It is always right. Posts: 456 | From: Long Beach, California | Registered: Jan 2003
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First off, the client is asking for info which you may or may not include on an invoice. In my opinion, the only reason he would have for the details is to outsource the job to the competition, making sure the signage matches, etc.
A lugit arguement on the customers behalf would be that he has a fleet of boats he will need signage for in the future.
Having said that, what exactly is the customer entitled to? He needs to know that the colors, style, placement and application are to his liking, as well as the expected lifetime of the materials used and any warrenty that may go with the materials.
Aside from that, any other information such as the vendors you use or the manufacturer brand names are completely at your discretion. (and namely because materials and prices change, as does the given manufacturers warrenty and materials life span given it's application.)
I feel that this also applies to grapix artwork created used as an example and should not walk out with the customer until the job is paid for.
As you stated earlier, you poured some time into the artwork creation. Some sign shops and studios charge an "artwork" fee up-front for unique graphix they create themselves to cover time spent on the project. (Non-existant, non-copyrighted materials.) Even public domain graphics can be charged for (but only to cover time and materials).
Im not sure if I addressed your query to your complete satisfaction, however my intent was to give a general outline as to the inside working in a business since.
There is clearly no reason you couldent give out detailed information other than to stake your claim on the project.
Just my thoughts on the matter. Hope it helps.
-------------------- Steve Dowden _ _ ____ _ _
Sue Avery Signs Kountze, Texas Posts: 14 | From: Lumberton, Texas | Registered: Nov 2003
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All of my vendors and sources are confidential. Does KFC share the mix of their "11 herbs & spices?" It's the same thing. We may try to guess, but that's their privledge to keep it to themselves.
This is well known to anybody who works here. A way around it is to create your own number system. Simply handwrite your corresponding number on the color chart. This number I will share. Keep your cross reference chart in a safe place. Hope this helps.
""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3503 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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I have provided SOME clients with manufacturers and their respective part (color/line) numbers, but only when it's requested. In fact last week I had to document that information for a Fire Department, as it's required in their bid process. A boat lettering job??? Nope.
We do indeed document materials used on each and every job, but that's for OUR own good (Not that it's made much difference in recent years, with manufacturers being absorbed by each other, and distributors changing lines like I change windsheild wiper blades)
As far as the life ring, you just explain that it had been priced as a part of the entire job, and that a-la-carte pricing is different. If you really have to justify it, it's the time spent loading and unloading the various materials into the cutter, yadda yadda yadda. (Explain how the price goes back to the original qoute, if he wants to do the dingy now!)
I'm always very aware of the fact that a customer came to see me, not the other way around. I'm in charge.
I like to give a price on a sign and a discounted price on subsequent signs that are repeats ordered at the same time. I put that in writing on the proposal. That way I'm getting full ticket on the sign if they ask for a price on six and then want to order one.
As far as giving them color chip numbers, how can that harm you? SOme folks like to keep records of that stuff. That way they can send to a mail order place and get your stuff duplicated real cheap and they can hire you to apply it?
Were it me, I'd accommodate them politely and know that this person is only one in a thousand.
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6817 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Hi Dawn! I think that maybe if you gave the guy the numbers, he might take them and go bug someone else! Good riddance to him. I would explain to him that your estimate only lasts for 30 days, due to the rising cost of materials, etc. It never occurred to me to notate which type/brand/color# of vynull...that's a REALLY good idea. Love Ya....Jill
-------------------- That is like a Mr. Potato Head with all the pieces in the wrong place. -Russ McMullin Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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Hello Dawn, Nice to hear from you. . . .This customer is just plain using you. Can you jump through just one more hoop for him? Do like Rick says. . . .give him a new price for the life ring (with all the extra time and travel involved) Be polite. Jack the price way up. . . with a smile. Don't give him color info. . . ignore him or "When HE calls YOU" tell him that you keep all records on file in the computer. Quit wasting time on him . . . NEXT. . . . . .have fun John
-------------------- John Arnott El Cajon CA 619 596-9989 signgraphics1@aol.com http://www.signgraphics1.com Posts: 1443 | From: El Cajon CA usa | Registered: Dec 1998
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Pick any random product manufacturer out there.. could be an automaker, a computer company, any company that produces our sign supplies... and ask them for *their* sources just so you "can have it for your records" and see what kinda response you get.
When your customers know your sources it only helps them to devalue your product. It's one thing if they research this information on their own, but jeezus don't hand them the information they need to run to a competitor or worse yet, become a competitor.
I also note vinyl manufacturer/color numbers on *My* copy of the invoice, for *MY* records, not for them to see.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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Hey Dawn . . . . don't the customer usually bring YOU the colour samp and manufacturer?
ie: Sherwin Williams - 1267 or Pantone 407 -etc?
You could just tell him he must have you confused with someone else because HE'S 'sposed to provide that spec . . .
And as for the pricing, well it's whatever he was quoted less the 50% he put down prior to the contract . . .
I like to be straight forward and not play games with people . .that way we all can see how flat footed we can stand . . . so I would just say:
"I really don't wanna do business with you any more, but thanx for callin'."
If he fails to grasp the hint, you could then say, "The price is different because you were quoted a package and now you wanna special order an individual element from that so the individual item price is 50% more . .." (or whatever you want or need it to be to make him go away)
If he says FINE I want YOU to do it, then hey, you will be getting paid well for dealing with him and it won't agger'vate'cha so bad...
-------------------- Signs Sweet Home Alabama
oneshot on chat
"Look like a girl, act like a lady, think like a man, work like a dog" Posts: 5758 | From: "Sweet Home" Alabama | Registered: Mar 2003
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Even a BigMac Meal is priced as a bundle. Try going back and getting the reduced Coke price AFTER you bought the sandwich separately. Good luck. Your first price was a package deal. It's a Case of Soda, NOT a single. Stick to your guns.
-------------------- Gene Golden Gettysburg Signs Gettysburg PA 17325 717-334-0200 genegolden@gettysburgsigns.com
"Art is knowing when to stop." Posts: 1578 | From: Gettysburg, PA | Registered: Jun 2003
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