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My husband and boys are tearing down an old bin and realized it is made from cedar. It was originally an old water tower and made of boards that are 5 1/2" by 2 3/4". There are probably 40 - 50 boards that are 15' long. There would probably be about 12' of salvageable board from each piece. Some of the boards are slightly bowed from being upright for so many years. They would only need about 1/32" planed from each surface to make them like new again.
Some Questions:
Is there any reason these can't be used for sign?
What would the rough value of a board like this be?
The boards were put together with tar in between - what is the best method of removing this before planing - will it raise h#ll with the planer?
A few of the boards have headless nails in them. Ist it possible to remove them with a very strong magnet? Will a metal detector find all the nails.
Being as how this is such old cedar, will it hold paint better than new stuff? What is the best way to prepare cedar for finishing and what works best?
Any other suggestions or comments as far as salvage and gluing together some blanks would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance!
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5496 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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Worthless. Don't believe him. A lot of work. Yes.
First the nails. Of course the nails will do major damage to the planner. Try using a nailsetter to push the nails far enough through the boards that you can get a pair a vise grips on them to pull them out. If not, try the smallest drill bit you have, drill right next to the nail (to release the pressure) and then try the nailsetter and visegrips method. You will probably have to keep trying bigger and bigger bits until you find the best one that will work on all the nails. The objects is to keep the hole as small as possible as you'll have to go back and patch it.
Planners are coming down so low in price that they are now getting into the price range of the average person. I used to build furniture before I made signs and the planners were running in the 1,000's Now you get one at Home Depot for $300-400.
I don't quite understand if the tar is on the face of the boards or the edge. If its the edge, find some solvent (mineral spirits, laquer thinner, etc) that will will bite into it and make it possible to wipe/scrape as much off as possible. If the tar is in the edge and you get as much off as you can, you can then take a hand planner and try to plane it off. If its on the face, same thing only after you wipe/scrape it down, you might want to try a belt sander with a heavy grit to take even more of the tar off before running it through the planer. Remember that whatever tar doesn't come off manually will stick to the planer cutting blades. If that happens, you will have to wipe the blades off constantly. If you have to do that...please...please don't just turn the planer off but unplug it. Things happen.
Once the boards are all cleaned off its time to straighten them out. You'll need to soak them somehow to make them pliable. You'll also have to stack them. The quickest way to get them to dry is to find a dry place like a garage or a dry barn. Without being there to experiment myself, you could try soaking them with a hose, putting them in a creek, etc. After they are soaked, they need to be stacked in layers with something like furring strips in between. The key is to keep a space so that air can get in and circulate in between the layers. Space your furring strip about 2-3 feet apart to what even length the boards are. On the top layer, you'll want to do the same but them put some weight on top like cement blocks to stop the boards from curling up and thats it. Can't tell you how long it will take to dry.
My son-in-law works at a custom window and door place and one time they got some wood that had been sitting at the bottom of a lake or sea and they had to dry it, of course, before they used it. They stacked it and then turned fans on the stack until it was dry enough to work with.
Next is gluing them together. Look to see which way the grain is running. You don't want to glue two pieces together when both have the grain running in the same direction. First one with grain running right, next one with the grain running left, then right, then left, etc. The reason for this is that the finished board could warp very easily.
I used to refinish antiue furniture and I've always used a glue like Elmer's wood glue to glue everything back together after I would straighten table tops. I have since found out that most old wood workers used a form of animal hide glue but I don't think that you could use that for outside signs. So choose a glue wisely.
When its time to glue, you will want a bunch of pipe clamps. The clamps are available at Home Depot as is the pipe. I usually get pipe 5' or 6' long (because I always find other uses for them). Depending on how big the sign is that you have cut out, place clamps on your work table about 2-3' feet apart, place your glued board in the clamps, tighten enough to put a little bit of pressure on the glued boards and then take more clamps and clamp from the top down in between the others and tighten. If you just use the clamps on one side, the board could dry curved. I like to use them on both sides so that there is equal pressure. Now just tighten evenly.
I forgot to say to make sure to follow the directions on the glue to use enough. After you tighten the board and the glue starts seeping out, don't wipe it off. Let it dry. It will bead up and when its dry, you can chip it off. If you wipe it off, some of the glue seeps into the wood and won't take paint or stain.
When you are planing or sawing, save your sawdust so that you can mix it with glue and patch your holes. It will then take stain or paint easily.
I hope this helps. It will be a huge job to do all of it at once.
[ September 26, 2004, 01:31 PM: Message edited by: Laura Butler ]
-------------------- Laura Butler Vision Graphics & Sign 4479 Welch Rd Attica, Mi 48412 Posts: 2855 | From: Attica, Mi, USA | Registered: Nov 2000
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Laura used to work with wood and rebuild furniture? Cool. Sounds like a good instructional on how to make a cedar sign blank.
Kelly, Could you buy the wood cheaply (perhaps the current owner sees it as scrap) and simply resell it to someone who sees the value of the wood and has the patience to do all that work (or perhaps you have the patience, I don't think I would).
-------------------- William Bass wjb71@bellsouth.net Northwest Florida Posts: 636 | From: Pensacola, FL | Registered: Aug 2004
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Laura, Is that how wood is curved? By soaking it real good and then bending/holding it in a curved shape? Not that I need to know, just curious.
-------------------- William Bass wjb71@bellsouth.net Northwest Florida Posts: 636 | From: Pensacola, FL | Registered: Aug 2004
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If you were to make curved back chairs, curved wood rails for sleighs, etc. it is usually streamed. Somewhere I saw a homemade streamer for jobs like that.
-------------------- Laura Butler Vision Graphics & Sign 4479 Welch Rd Attica, Mi 48412 Posts: 2855 | From: Attica, Mi, USA | Registered: Nov 2000
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Thanks for the info Laura, The wood belongs to the family farm which is Jim and his brothers. What amazed me is the fact that it is in such great shape after spending the last 100 years or so as first a water tower and then grain storage. There aren't a lot of nail holes because it was held together with steel bands. I doubt you can buy wood like this any more, it has a fairly fine straight grain and the exterior face has a lovely weathered raised grain that would already work well for signage. The tar is along the edges where it was used to waterproof the bin. The bottom couple of feet have some rot where it has been in contact with the ground for the last 40 years, but the rest of the boards would be almost like new with a 1/32 of an inch planed off each edge. Apparently the boards have very little warping - maybe an inch or so over the 15' length (I've only seen the one they brought me) and I don't think they would require much straightning. I tend to be a bit of a salvage nut and would take pleasure in making them into signage. The time to glue a couple of sign blanks together is less than it would take me to drive to the city and go to a lumberyard. I just wondered what a fair price would be for the boards. My first guess is around $2 Canadian per lineal foot of useable material. I like the thickness of it - a little more substantial looking than a 2" board. I thought perhaps they would also take paint/stain better because they ought to be completely cured by now - isn't it migration of the oils in cedar that cause paint failure on Cedar Signs?
[ September 26, 2004, 02:51 PM: Message edited by: Kelly Thorson ]
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5496 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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$30 a board sounds awful expensive but then maybe I don't have all the facts. I didn't realize that you were going ot have to purchase this. If the tar is just on the edges, the best way to remove it, would be to run it through a table saw and cut off 1/4" or so.
-------------------- Laura Butler Vision Graphics & Sign 4479 Welch Rd Attica, Mi 48412 Posts: 2855 | From: Attica, Mi, USA | Registered: Nov 2000
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Sounds like a great find Kelly. Metal detector - YES that should work dandy. If the nails are as sparse as you think maybe you can simply avoid most of them and leave them alone. However, if you can get them out, consider shopping some of that wood to furniture and cabinet makers. 100 yr old cedar could fetch much more than current-growth stuff to a specialty shop who has the clientelle to appreciate the difference and pay top buck. Now if those planks were 20" wide you'd DEFINITELY have a hot seller.
SONGPAINTER Original Sign Music by Sign People NOW AVAILABLE on CD and the proceeds go to Letterville's favorite charity! Click Here for Sound Clips! Posts: 1974 | From: Orleans, MA, Cape Cod, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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We ran a couple of the shorter boards through the planer and this is the result. There are 80+ boards at 16' each. By the time any stained or rotten wood is removed from the end they will be just over 14'. The finished size of the boards is 2 3/8" x 5 1/4'. Each board has a dowel hole towards the top, but it is on the edge - you can see one in the picture. Nail holes are 1 every 30" or so , some have almost none. Now they tell me the floor (27 diameter circle) is made of 11 1/2" cedar boards.
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5496 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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Lovely lookin' stuff Kelly. Appears to be western red. Around here that goes about $3.00b.f., which is why I use eastern white. I'd use Gorilla Glue to glue up your panels, Pentox for a sealer/primer,Cetol TGL Clear for a finish, sand and paint. Wish I had some of that wood. Bring a truckload when you come to visit! MUR
-------------------- Murray MacDonald OldTime Signs 529 Third Ave S Kenora, ON. P9N 1Y3 oldtimesigns@gokenora.com Posts: 781 | From: Kenora, ON | Registered: Jan 2003
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What a find! We are all envious that we didn't come across such a rare treasure. There is a place near here that specializes in old wood from barns, factories and such. Check them out for other ideas for using the wood. www.nostalgicwood.com
I am not an expert on wood, but do you think it might be redwood?
Enjoy!
-------------------- Harry Pinkse Sign Matters Mount Forest, ON Posts: 32 | From: Mount Forest. ON | Registered: Aug 2003
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Harry, since she mentions the smell of Cedar I'd think it's pretty well confirmed. (I don't recall any redwood I've used having anywhere near as nice of a smell, but I'm no expert either)
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THats good ol' vertical grain Cedar there Kelly. The beauty is the thickness it is dressing out too. You just can't find that very often anymore. Good find. By the way it was a pleasure talking with you today on the phone. Dale
In canada by the way it will sell for 6/ bd ft which equates to a piece 1" thick, by 12 inches long and 12"s wide. one of your piece would be worth $9/linear foot around here or more?
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