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What kind of paint do they use on backlit faces? Is it translucent or transparent or semi opaque? Is there a special paint - would Krylon Fusion work? I have some spray paint for glass but it is too transparent for what I need. 1-shot? If so which blues (ultramarine - royal range) are the most transparent.
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5496 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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Do NOT use Fusion on the faces and expect any kind of real transparency in the final job.
Before you invest into buying all your materials for the faces, I would seriously investigate if there is a wholesaler available through your supply house.
It has been my experience that they can produce the faces finished for very little more than what my materials would have cost. Besides, as good as I ever was at spraying paint, they sure do as good or better than I can.
No fuss, no muss, no spray booth, no extra quarts of paint, special thinners, cut mask...
Just e-mail the file and a week later, I get my faces. Awesome.
Hope this is helpful for you.
-------------------- Bruce Bowers
DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter Posts: 6451 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
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posted
We only use GripFlex, but if you're going to do it you MUST have the cabinet too. You put the panel in backwards and light the cabinet up. that's the only way you can control the paint translucency and eveness. If you're not good at handling a spray gun you'd better practice a lot before trying to spray translucents. It doesn't take much to mess up a face.
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Kelly, it was great to meet you in Moncton, and now to get to your question.... No, you absolutely cannot use FUSION for a backlit sign unless it is extremely small, by that I mean the size of your hand. The paint applied to the back of acrylic sign faces is a special translucent paint that must be painted in a booth with a good gun, and an experienced hand; the reason I say experienced is that wherever the paint thickness applied to the acrylic is thinner or thicker, determines how much light shall be allowed to pass through, hence dark lines where the paint is thick and your strokes overlap, and light colour where they havn't. This can make for a horrible looking sign upon illumination. I would recommend that you use a translucent vinyl of the appropriate colour as it is easy to apply and is completely uniform in regards to the light transmitted, not to mention no paint booth req'd and the huge mess of painting. But if the sign must be painted due to size, I can recommend the type of paint to use, and also that you have someone with the appropriate facilities spray it for you. Feel free to give me a call anytime Kelly. (I bet that this is for a co-op isn't it?) Take Care Jo
-------------------- Jo Rucchin SIGNWERKS 430 WATERLOO ST. S. 807 622-3158 SIGNWERKSGRAPHICS@HOTMAIL.COM Posts: 1 | From: Thunder Bay | Registered: Jul 2004
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Joe Friday!!!!!!!!!!! You're not a lurker any more! Welcome! But you lose .... it's not for a Co-op. It's to answer a question from a friend...... Can you...... The answer is no!
Hey Letterheads, take time to meet Jo. He's a talented guy with lots to share. I'm glad he has made his first post!
Thanks Lat & Bruce for your help.
[ September 24, 2004, 09:11 PM: Message edited by: Kelly Thorson ]
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5496 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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kelly, I've never used GripFlex but did have to remove some off the inside of some faces. The remover was wicked. We were warned to do it outside but even that wasn't enough. I could only work for a little while and then the fumes would start affecting me and I would have to stop and come back quite a bit later. Its makes a beautiful lit face but I'll stick to vinyl. In fact I always used translucent until one of my mentors told me to just use intermediate vinyl. Its quite translucent.
-------------------- Laura Butler Vision Graphics & Sign 4479 Welch Rd Attica, Mi 48412 Posts: 2855 | From: Attica, Mi, USA | Registered: Nov 2000
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Kelly, How large is the face, how large are the letters, what color are the face and letters? Depending on your answers, I can better answer - many options.
-------------------- Gene Golden Gettysburg Signs Gettysburg PA 17325 717-334-0200 genegolden@gettysburgsigns.com
"Art is knowing when to stop." Posts: 1578 | From: Gettysburg, PA | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
Absolutly do not use intermediate vinyl for back lit. It's not made for that; beside's I'm sure you value your reputation more than saving a couple bucks on vinyl. Use a good translucent vinyl. If it has to be seamed it can be done in such a way as to be almost impossible to see.
-------------------- Dennis Veenema The Sign Shop Dresden, Ont. but what do I know anyway...I've only been doing this for 20 years! Posts: 368 | From: Dresden, Ont.,CAN | Registered: May 1999
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We do most of our backlits on white lexan. The graphics are applied to the face (1st surface). Use 2mil translucent vinyl only. We use Gripflex when spraying thinned with T2003 thinner. Put the vinyl on wet. Cheers from Quebec,
posted
Using calendered vinyl on a back lit sign face will last about 6 - 8 months or so. Then it will start to look cheap.. It will peel. But, even worse. Dirt and mildew will collect right where edges start to lift. Looks like death. Its one of the worst things you could do for a PERMANENT back lit face.
Now, using it for a 6-8 month temporary panel could work.
-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5274 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
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Sorry guys but my mentor has been making signs for 50 years and he said he never uses translucent. In fact he was surprised that I said that I always did. Since he told me that I have used it a little.
I have done it on a few signs when I couldn't get translucent the color that the customer wanted. The end of 2002 and part of 2003, I made new backlits signs for a strip mall of 18 stores. I drive by these signs everyday while on the road. Sometimes I drive right by the storefronts so I am so close that I am less than 15 feet away. I have not seen a problem yet. I have used it in small quantities on a few jobs almost 4 years ago.
[ September 25, 2004, 02:06 PM: Message edited by: Laura Butler ]
-------------------- Laura Butler Vision Graphics & Sign 4479 Welch Rd Attica, Mi 48412 Posts: 2855 | From: Attica, Mi, USA | Registered: Nov 2000
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WEll. Im gooan fly up to your place and touch you. You have a gift. No trouble using calandered on a lit face?
I personally replaced at least 3 if not 5 panels done by our local cheaper dealer who used calandered vinyl. I redid one that had cheap (calandered?) translucent on it. Maybe the faces last longer in the tundra. But, not here. I knew I shoulda took some pics.
The edges lift just a little. Collects dirt and looks like death. Dirt stains running down the face from one of them lifted edges is even worse.
What an ugly mess.. A few others mentioned using calandered vinyl on back lits. However, I'll not do it..
Maybe thats why I get work even though I'm higher than the others here.
-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5274 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
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I have only ever used translucent vinyl on backlit's. (except for cast black)
There HAS to be a reason why translucent vinyl is more expensive than intermediate. Maybe because it is formulated to do the job AND to last a long time?
As far as sprayin Grip Flex...if you have the experience laying down a consistent spray pattern, and use a "clean" gun with a good spray pattern it is easy. If not, I'd suggest following Bruce's advice.
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
posted
I've sprayed more than a few faces in my career and I say 'hoorah' for translucent vinyls. Once I started using translucent vinyls I was able to clear my shop of a whole system of nasty paints, thinners, cleaners and related foul chemicals, in fact we emptied an entire paint cabinet, thank gawds there is no need to spray backlit faces anymore!
You might realize too that you really need a spray booth for this operation, along with a light rack to mount the faces on (you could use the sign can too though) as you paint them, and the fire dept wants this light rack to be made with explosion proof componets.
Trans vinyl is more brittle than regular vinyl but goes on fine via wet method, overlap your seams a 16th of an inch and they will disappear from street level. We sell the customers new faces if theirs has been painted, citing it is enviromentally unsound to strip the old paint. Yes, we can sand off the old paint and then re polish the face but that process cost more than new plastic.
Sometimes a customer has PMS colors that need matched and theres no trans vinyl close, I would say find someone to sub these jobs to.
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Kelly, Sub the thing out. I was once married to a body-man and the only reason I kept him around was for installations and back-spraying pan faces with Grip-Flex. He wasn't worth it and neither was spraying that nasty paint....12 mist coats, must be backlit to see just where the paint went, it's sticky and stinky....just like he was. Got a divorce. Sub-out installs now. If and when I have to do Lexan signs, I buy 'em already white or I don't do 'em. (flat sheets only....no more pan-faces for this gal) And yes I do pay extra for translucent vynull...if you're gonna do something, do it right or don't do it at all, like Daddy always said. And I apply it wet. Have fun! But this is NOT a job for your infamous "Norwegian Airbrush"! Sign Chix Rule. Love....Jill
-------------------- That is like a Mr. Potato Head with all the pieces in the wrong place. -Russ McMullin Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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Kelly, Size does matter, that's why I asked but here goes anyway. I just produced 2 - 5'x5' lighted faces for a customer. Illustration and PMS color match. I used the Gerber Edge™ to produce the entire thing, then cleared it with UV stuff before applying the vinyl. It's perfect, lit and unlit. 1/10" overlap is hardly noticeable when lit. I always let them know there will be a line, and tell them it's better than mottled spray any day. Gregory or Graphitek of Vermont can provide large graphics if you don't want to buy an entire roll of translucent for one job, or don't want the seam.
-------------------- Gene Golden Gettysburg Signs Gettysburg PA 17325 717-334-0200 genegolden@gettysburgsigns.com
"Art is knowing when to stop." Posts: 1578 | From: Gettysburg, PA | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
I guess if the only kinds of backlit signs you do work with solid translucent films, then go for it, but it sure does limit what you can do. Ever try to do a real Pepsi logo with just solid translucent films? Pepsi sure isn't going to buy it.
posted
Hi Kelly, (Welcome Jo......glad you jumped in.) Translucent vinyl....works wonderful. Wherever you must join it, just be sure to overlap it a tiny bit, so when it shrinks there is no gap (in this case bright light) Even a pin hole magnifies the light at night.
One tip to consider...sometimes what you see on laying on the colour charts are not what is shown at night when the lights are on....some colours do change drastically when backlit.....Some vinyls that look dark burgundy in the daylight, can change to a nasty bright reddy orange at night....be careful and choose them wisely. Hold the samples up to a bright light (or sunshine) I use a lot of translucent, and have excellent results. Good luck with your decision.
-------------------- Susan Banasky Source Signs Nanaimo, British Columbia sourcesigns@shaw.ca
When in need....go directly to the "Source"!
Proud Supporter of this "Knowledge Network"! Posts: 1323 | From: Nanaimo, B.C. Canada | Registered: Oct 1999
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