I know we have been down this road before and I think Steve has commented on not belittling or exploiting other peoples’ lettering abilities here in Letterville. So the following is meant to see what the general consensus is here on this subject.
I don’t think I’m alone when I say as I’m traveling down the road on a given day I’m constantly looking at all the lettering I can get my eyes on. I also know I’m not alone when I say the “what were they thinking” (wwtt) thought comes to mind way more often than it used to.
I have stated here before I don’t think I’m God’s gift to the lettering world but I think I’ve learned a lot over the years in terms of design, layout, kerning, colors, and such.
I proudly display my first lettering jobs in my portfolio where I did the nasty red letter/white shadow on a blue background thing to show we all started somewhere. The ones that don’t get it and haven’t learned after a few years are truly the ones that get my goat!
A truck I saw today is the inspiration for posting this.
First off, any time I see the world famous vinyl job where the shadow color is put down first and then the copy on top is just off set so you see the line from the shadow copy in the top copy always makes me shake my head and wonder WWTT! Today’s version was especially nice since the top copy was chrome. That got a big WWTT!!!
Well my thought is if photos of some of the wwtt things out there were posted couldn’t that help some of the newbies and such understand what not to do.
Don’t get me wrong there would be a little entertainment value for some people but I don’t think that would hurt either.
Possibly a contest for the best of the worst?
Thoughts? Comment?
Jeff
-------------------- Jeff's Lettering Lisa,Luke,Dara, and Jeff Spradling 5742 Shattuck Rd. Belvidere, Il. 61008 815-544-0167
Surviving another day. Posts: 626 | From: Belvidere, IL USA | Registered: Jul 2000
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Jeff, I know that you are looking for poor design stuff but this never ceases to make me shake my head when I see it...
-------------------- Kimberly Zanetti Purcell www.amethystProductivity.com Folsom, CA email: Kimberly@AmethystProductivity.com
“Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up.” AA Milne Posts: 3722 | From: Folsom, CA | Registered: Dec 2001
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Good news Jeff! The Sign Police are on their way to instruct those that want to learn.
Steven Parrish was an old sign painter and gilding artist many of us met at Letterhead Meet back in 1983. Looking at our portfolios, I remember him commenting that many of us were learning the tricks before the trade. That's never been more true than today.
Look at the tools we have. Digital printing, routing and a host of other toys that enable us to do fantastic effects at the click of a button. A choice of thousands of fonts, outlines, shades, prismatic and reflective effects....the list is endless.
The downside is that basics such as readibility, proper letter spacing, colour and other design elements that directly relate to signs and their impact as an advertising medium are MIA. We can't fix this situation overnight, but we can make a start.
I have many mentors, but 3 always stand out in my head. One was certainly Mike Stevens. His designs stood out from the rest. Mike taught us the beauty of good design and gave us a language to describe it.
The other two go hand in hand. One was the instructor and the other his student. I'm talking about Ken Millar and Bob Behounek. These two were up front sharing at my first meet and are still at it over 20 years later. Those who attended this year's International in Detroit were just as excited about the Ken and Bob Show as I was at my first meet.
Ken and Bob taught us about the practical side of sign design. How big does a letter have to be in order to be read from a vehicle moving 60 mph and 300 ft. away? Why keeping it simple is often better. The theory of designing in panels. The list goes on and on. All the basics that a professional sign designer needs to know.
In the coming months, our goal is to share what we learned from my personal heros with today's new crop of sign designers. Thanks to Dawn Stevens and SignCraft Magazine, we have most of Mike Steven's layout and design lessons.
Ken is writing a book of the subject. I've already started whispering in his ear about the possibility of introducing it here.
Bob Behounek has an article in every issue of SignCraft Magazine. In my opinion, Bob's articles alone are worth the investment in a subscription.
While you are there, order a copy of Mike Steven's Mastering Layout This is the finest book on sign layout ever written. It will also serve as the text book when we start Mike's course here in Letterville. May as well grab his 99 Showcards book too. Amazing stuff. You'll find these and other great books in the Layout section at SignCraft.
Well? Anyone excited about this besides me?
[ September 22, 2004, 04:46 PM: Message edited by: Steve Shortreed ]
-------------------- Steve Shortreed 144 Hill St., E. Fergus, Ontario Canada N1M 1G9 519-787-2673
I think, we all get a kick out of seeing 'WWTT' signs. If nothing else, we should learn what not to do, when viewing the examples. This should include, "not belittling or exploiting other peoples’ lettering abilities."
Possibly a more productive approach would be to explain and/or work through another way to make the message/sign 'work' for it's intended purpose.
Cher.
-------------------- Co-Host: SANDCASTLE Panel Jam 'a Dixie Letterhead Reunion' Fort Myers, Florida
Cheryl Lucas a/k/a "Shag" on mIRC Vital Signs & Graphics, Etc. Cape Coral, Florida 239-574-4713 VSignsNgraphics@aol.com Posts: 987 | From: Cape Coral, FL USA | Registered: Aug 2000
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Saw 1 today on a dealer's van. There was NO pre-thinking on this one.
It was the GM logo, had to be 15" tall. Unfortunately whoever did it must've only had the 12" stika and the overlap for the panels was HUGE! Then, this logo went over some ridges on van where windows would've been if it had windows. The vinyl was NOT touching the vehicle at this spot. It was stuck solid to the flat panels but made a nice little bridge over the ridges.
First, I hate paneling. But if ya have to panel, and you can not do it with less than a 1" overlap, it's time to find yourself a new profession. Secondly, perhaps this shoulda been rotated before being cut. All I could see was the huge overlap running left to right and this "bridge" from top to bottom. Why wasn't it cut so the seam hit the ridge, making both less noticeable?
-------------------- Chris Welker Wildfire Signs Indiana, Pa Posts: 4254 | From: Indiana, PA | Registered: Mar 2001
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You start talking about "paneling" and one of those guys hears that term....you'll start seeing letters cut out of [wood] paneling stuck to the sides of vans....hehehe.
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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Cris, He might have be a very experienced installer and got sucked into the Oracrap Claims and The 1 inch overlap was a precaution for Shrinkage and the vinyl when installed was in the creases.
Hey Todd Thanks for the Idea. Might have to start offering that. 3d Vehicle lettering.
[ September 23, 2004, 09:20 PM: Message edited by: William DeBekker ]
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Doesn't Signs of the Times do an occasional Ugly Sign Contest issue? I love the trucks with so much text that it looks like they glued a newspaper to the side of it. You could wind up in a ditch just trying to figure out what they do. Kimberly, I love the "CLEARNACE" sign. Must be an optician looking to improve the clearnace of your vision. hee hee.
-------------------- Ron Wakefield Signs by Ron Southington, CT ron@signsbyron.com Posts: 71 | From: Southington, CT | Registered: Jul 2004
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Steve, Did I see Barb videoing Ken and Bob? If so can I get a copy? I was busy on the other side of the room and the first time that I heard loud laughing, I looked up and saw those two in what looked like my grandmothers housecoats (like thin nighties only buttons up the front) and hairnets type hats that I looked like the ones that I used to put over my 3" curlers when I went to bed (during the 60's).
-------------------- Laura Butler Vision Graphics & Sign 4479 Welch Rd Attica, Mi 48412 Posts: 2855 | From: Attica, Mi, USA | Registered: Nov 2000
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Jeff!! that is what SIGNS of the TIMES and other mags have the ugly sign contests for!!
I am the proud owner of a PIC that was posted in that contest. (I was NOT the creator of the sign, lol) We drove up to another town, to install at a brand new dr's office annex building.
Up there on the porch area was a blue, plastic banner with letters cut-out of some sort of material and taped on with scotch tape. Contrary to advertising and popular belief, scotch tape is NOT invisible... on a lot of surfaces.
When we had down-time at my first sign shop job, my favorite thing was to dig thru the tons of mags and find the ugly sign contests.
But one day I realized that I was developing a tendency to dwell on trying to make signs simply look neater or better spaced, or not look stenciled, to NOT LOOK "ugly", when what I really needed to do was pay more attention to the elements of beautiful signs and strive to immerse myself in those aspects...
I'm afraid showing pics of ugly signs to beginners will cause them to focus MORE on what NOT to do, rather than putting the focus on proper design & colour use.
Otherwise, we would have a lotta neatly lettered, but plain, boring signs out there.
-------------------- Signs Sweet Home Alabama
oneshot on chat
"Look like a girl, act like a lady, think like a man, work like a dog" Posts: 5758 | From: "Sweet Home" Alabama | Registered: Mar 2003
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Some of the ugly signs may be a design done by the person ordering the sign. Some of my customers give me a design, and insist on their design and won't listen to the sign makers suggestions. Those are the signs that I won't put my name on. We are currently making a 3' x4' double sided gold leaf sign for a good sum. The quality will be there for fabrication, but the design stinks.
Diane Balch
-------------------- Balch Signs 1045 Raymond Rd Malta, NY 12020 518 885-9899 signs@balchsigns.com http://www.balchsigns.com Posts: 1695 | From: MaltaNY | Registered: Jan 2000
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![[Cool]](cool.gif)
I also know I’m not alone when I say the “what were they thinking” (wwtt) thought comes to mind way more often than it used to. ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
to show we all started somewhere. The ones that don’t get it and haven’t learned after a few years are truly the ones that get my goat!![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[I Don t Know]](graemlins/dunno.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Rolling On The Floor]](graemlins/rolf.gif)
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