posted
I have some 14" tall 1" thick signfoam letters that I have carved to a primatic look.
I am going to prime these tomorrow and I need some "hands on experience" in the priming.
I am favoring the use of Automotive "sand and fill" primer and want to know if anyone has experience in using it (on sign foam).
I also have a gallon of Costals product fsc-88wb and would appreciate any no/no's with that product...I know how long before I can sand the automotive but would like any info on how many coats the "Coastal" product requires how long it takes to dry...and how it sands.
Also I need to know how much warpage is involved (if any) using either product.
I don't mean to sound gruff here so please excuse the next statement if it pertains to you...no offence intended
Please answer only if you have had experience with either (or both) products..I do'nt have time for experiments based on what someone had heard and I have too much time in them to take any chances (not to mention the cost of the materials involved).
Thanks in advance ...hope someone has an answer for me!
[ August 14, 2004, 03:40 PM: Message edited by: Monte Jumper ]
-------------------- "Werks fer me...it'll werk fer you"
posted
Hey, Monte..... since I am only doing HDU now.... I have used Jay Cooke's for years.... and now find that Coastal's FS-88WB to be the best. Be sure to thin it down to the consistency for your job. It dry sands quite well. I have not experienced any warpage, shrinkage or release with the FS88. Be SURE to wash the letters real well with the garden hose nozzle PRIOR to priming to remove 99.9% of the dust particles.
[ August 14, 2004, 04:35 PM: Message edited by: John Smith ]
-------------------- John Smith Kings Bay Signs (Retired) Kissimmee, Florida Posts: 816 | From: Central Florida - The Sunshine State | Registered: Jan 2000
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I've used automotive primers with excellent results, mostly PPG. You can squirt 3 or 4 coats and be sanding them to a glass finish in little more than an hour.
The SignPrime is about the best waterborne that I've used, and I've used most of them.
-------------------- Steve Purcell Purcell Woodcarving & Signmaking Cape Cod, MA
************************** Intelligent Design Is No Accident Posts: 900 | From: Cape Cod, MA | Registered: Oct 1999
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Monte I've used Evercoat's Slick Sand, Finish Sand, and Feather Fill G2 polyester primers on HDU (model/prototyping for mold making) with awesome results. Automotive Uro primers would work even better but the polyester is inexpensive.
Each of those products flows out so smoothly over 18lb HDU it's unreal. Just break the surface of the primer with 320 grit and you'll be painting in no time.
By the way, the Evercoat stuff fills and primes in ONE coat.
If you paint both the front and back you shouldn't get any warping at all.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
I noticed that somebody mentioned thinning the primer? I currently have a project that I am doing and I have applied 1 coat of Jay Cooke primer, not thinned, should I of thinned it? I am planning on putting a 2nd coat on tomorrow, should I thin it for the 2nd coat?
Thanks!
Mike
-------------------- Mike Berry New England Posts: 534 | From: New England | Registered: Jan 2002
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Mike No need to thin it. Just apply it in thin coats. First sand it with 220 , vaccuum, blow it off with the compressor then tack it before painting with the primer or top coat.
Monte
We have used Mar-hyde 2 part urethane auto primer on signfoam. 2 coats. It sands so easily. We sand with 220 on the HDU, 320 on the primer. VAcuum, blow it off then tack. You do need to wear a respirator. It is best to not breathe the fumes- .
We have used Sign Foam brand of primer- great stuff. It flows nicely, dries quickly, sands nicely and doesn't stink. 1 or 2 coats is all you need. With any primer- coat all surfaces with the same number coats of primer and stop coats to protect it from warping.
Diane Balch
-------------------- Balch Signs 1045 Raymond Rd Malta, NY 12020 518 885-9899 signs@balchsigns.com http://www.balchsigns.com Posts: 1695 | From: MaltaNY | Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
Monte, The FS88WB, is a great High Build primer. First you want to ensure the surfaces are opened up by scuffing it with 120grit paper, this will be more important on the back of the letter, as you just cut the surface when doing the prismatic lettering. You will also want to ease all edges so there are no sharp 90 degree angles, as it will deteriorate there first. from here, the only trick to keep in mind, is to ensure you have a fan blowing over the surfaces of the letters once the primer is applied. Because the HDU (sign Foam, Precision board, Design board???) Does not absorb moisture which is a good thing, it also means that once the primer starts to skin over while drying, now the moisture has no where to go. A fan will create friction as it moves the air over the surface and therefore allow the moisture to be wicked out of the primer. As you may already realize the FS88 is a real thick almost like pudding consitencey. This means it will easily fill any air pockets that sign foam or precision board is made up of. You can use it in that state and just use a spatula or putty knife to really work it into the surface of the HDU. or you can thin it to no more than 5% and brush or roll it on. It dries real fast so you could than sand the material with 180 or 220 grit paper for a real smooth surface.
Before you apply it though, ensure you either blow off real good all the dust in the HDU, as it gets trapped in the Air cells and will not allow the primer to stick, or you could as another person suggested wash it off with water.
ALso you want ensure that each side of the letter is matched coat for coat to ensure even tension accreoos the surfaces of the letters. This reduces any chance of warping
As for drying, the FS**WB with the fan trick should be ready in about an hour, based on reasonable humidity. When you sand it just watch for any pilling, (what I call the balls of material stuck to your sand paper, or rolling on the surface of the substrate), This is as you probaly realize signs of moisture still inthe the primer.
I would continue to use the fan for all subsequent coatings on the substrate as you will want to wick out all the moisture for these coats as well. Good luck and let us know how you make out.
Mike, You do not need to thin Jay cookes primer. It is best left in its original state and really worked into the surface with a good fitch brush, so it settles into the HDU surface. If it is MDO, a good old Foam roller will work great and apply 2 coats of this and sand with 120 grit between coats. ( I know this for fact as Jay cooke himself showed me this past february) Dale
posted
Monte, we just finished some 30" tall HDU letters (1.5" thick - 15#) We sprayed them with Coastal Enterprises WB filler/primer with a HVLP spray gun. Of course, some thinning is necessary. I sprayed several coats on at once - did the first letters and by the time I was done with the set, the first ones were almost dry. You can just keep piling that stuff on. The next morning I sanded them down (just like sanding spackling) to a super smooth finish. This was done with an random orbital sander, sanding block and by hand in the tight area.
The letters were dusted off, tacked down, and then sprayed with acrylic latex using the same HVLP spray gun. It took about three coats to get really good coverage. The color was a really dark, navy blue so it took awhile to get rid of the light spots.
They were allowed to dry several days before installation.
Works for me.
-------------------- Chapman Sign Studio Temple, Texas chapmanstudio@sbcglobal.net Posts: 6306 | From: Temple, Texas, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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thanks everyone...I primed two sample pieces saturday.
One with Coastal's 88wp primer and the other with automotive primer...tomorrow morning I will test them and see which I like better...(so far i am still leaning towards the automotive.
My only real concern here is how it holds up over rhe long haul (I hate doing things over)...especially at my expense!
I'll keep you posted on how it all turns out!
[ August 15, 2004, 10:40 PM: Message edited by: Monte Jumper ]
-------------------- "Werks fer me...it'll werk fer you"
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