posted
Part time sign people, are like any other part-time occupation. There are good and bad. Some "shade-tree" mechanics could destroy your vehicle by looking at it...others are the best mechanics you'll find.
As long as the person takes his/her job, product, and customer seriously, then I see no problem. I am looking toward taking a full time "real job", and doing signs part-time from the house in the near future. It will allow me the benefits of full time employ (insurance, 401k, etc.) and the freedom to pick and choose the jobs that I want to take on. Having been in the business for a while now, I understand the value of my work. And the quality of my work and my prices will not fall simply because it will be done at my home after 5pm, and on weekends.
The way I see it...it isn't so much a matter of the part-time folks, but any sign maker that pushes the WalMart mentality of cheaper is better, with no regard to value. It is the inexperienced sign maker who can't produce the necessary quality, and therefore aims for higher quantity. And passing along incorrect "professional advice" with every order(whether spoken or simply inferred) Because 15 ugly, amature signs does not equal one professional job.
I know full time sign guys who have been in the business forever, who lose money consistantly because they under cut somebody elses price. We just recently had a very large sign company in town go out of business because of this. I recently submitted a bid on a job for a lighted can sign...the winning bid (from a legitimate shop with over 20 years experience)was below my wholesale cost. The kicker here is that the shop that did the sign uses the same vendor for their electrical sign work....they lost money because they didn't take the time to set up the bid completely and correctly. They just bid under everyone else.
-------------------- Joe Endicott NEXCOM (Navy Exchange Service Command) Signing Programs Specialist Virginia Beach, VA jeendicott@msn.com
"I want to be Stereotyped....I want to be Classified." Posts: 681 | From: Virginia Beach, VA USA | Registered: Mar 1999
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Nice post before Mike P.? What post? ? Did you read my post? your answer doesn't fit. Part time and cut throat have different meanings jduckett.
YOUR WORDS> (I must keep a full time job to help support my family)?
HMMM.... KIND OF MY POINT.
Mike
[ August 06, 2004, 10:37 AM: Message edited by: Mike Paul ]
-------------------- Mike Auto Graphix New Jersey graphix@nac.net Posts: 32 | From: Butler New Jersey | Registered: Oct 2003
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The biggest point this thread makes is that some people in this business are willing to point the finger and look to place blame on absolutely everybody and everything except themselves when their business doesn't do what they think it should. If you were actually the most talented,gave the best design,the best service & quality and all that other BS that,of course,every one here provides their customers at all times then this guy would affect zero about who you are and what you do,or your present customer base. If someone like this does,maybe thats a message to take a good hard look at how you,that dummy that looks back at you in the mirror, actually runs your business and handles your customers, and stop being so full of your own a*s that you think you're entitled to the whole pie without making the effort to get more than one slice.....at the very least it oughta give you a dose of reality that noone in any industry is irreplaceable no matter what it is you think you do,thats the message thats getting missed here. If the same guy showed up and posted here that he was doing it as a second job and said he liked the sign biz by now we would have invited him to 37 different letterhead meets,bought him a stevens book and kissed his a*s so much it would have blisters while telling him how absolutely breathtaking whatever work he posted is..until the poor SOB asked for clipart. Mike Berry,I hope you read Joe Endicott's post and a couple of the others,because you've been around here long enough to know that what people say here and what they actually do here are two completely separate issues...if you stop and notice...all this "it's how I make my living" is a do as i say i do not as i really do...if anyone here actually was willing to live by this same morality,why are there so many here so willing and so quick to print their own buisness cards,make their own app fluid,build their own equipment or paint an entire vehicle with 1shot when all of those are are ways that others make their living...unless of course they do it because they dont charge what they need to charge to buy the correct tool or use the correct procedure for the job. In that case,its the fault of the guy up the street of course. Chin up and don't let the what you read here make you form an opinion unless the naysayers are gonna send you a check everymonth. The fact that some are willing to think you make an astronomical salary as a fireman oughta be a sign. Don't let it burn your a*s...literally.
-------------------- Gavin Chachere Plotter in the garage,New Orleans La.
"Sgts Shugart and Gordon again request permission to rope down to crash site two" Posts: 1223 | From: new orleans.la. | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
"Cop with a dime store plotter? Have one in your town? I do. He has absolutely no appreciation for the trade so he charges 1/2 of what all us hard working, health insurance , overhead paying, sign shop do every month."
"Dummy that looks back at you in the mirror, actually runs your business and handles your customers" ..... What the hell are you talking about? Full of my own ass? Do you know me?
Have one in your town? It's just a simple question. Did I say I was worried about him cutting into my business? .. No. Did I say I felt threatened by him? No. Read the post. Take a deep breath and relax. Have a drink.
It's a simple question on a sign forum. The dummy is the guy charging 1/2 price. Are you having a bad day or are you always so judgmental? Maybe you read into the question a bit to far.
Mike
-------------------- Mike Auto Graphix New Jersey graphix@nac.net Posts: 32 | From: Butler New Jersey | Registered: Oct 2003
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Well OP, With all that fire related experience, I would think you would then know how to light a fire under your ass and get that shack of yours built... What is the hold up. LOL Dale
posted
hey dale....you know the old sayin..."everybody likes a little a**, BUT NOONE LIKES A SMART A**"? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...i be doin the best i can.....i wana be around you when you body hits 59.....my mind is 30, but when i try to move my body like i did when i was 30, it just dont happen.....hahahahahahahaha/
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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quote:Originally posted by Mike Paul: Nice post before Mike P.? What post? ? Did you read my post? your answer doesn't fit.
He may have been referring to my post, I'm also Mike P.
I don't think Gavin is talking specifically to you Mike Paul, but in general to many people here whose feathers get ruffled when someone else undercuts them then continue to blame that person (or shop) for the failure of their own business. Like I said in my first post, we all have to be willing to change our business model from time to time in the name of progress. Sticking with the same product and processes for 30 years just doesn't cut it.
Gavin's also a full time sign guy and paint distributor, and a part time cop. Go figure.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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-------------------- Maker of fine signs and other creative stuff. Located at 109 N. Cumberland ave. Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-837-0242 Posts: 4172 | From: Ages-Brookside, Ky. Up the Holler... | Registered: Jul 1999
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we can all get a pair of reading glasses now... Gavinhasspokenagaininhisuniquelegiblestyle
Mike Pipes... I highly doubt your rational level-headed reply was the Mike P in question... & Mike Paul... come on, how could he mean you ? "good post until Mike P" This is your "good" post... how could it be good until you?
My money is on "Mike P" meaning Mike Berry.. the only really defensive derailment of this thread I've seen. (not attacking your legitimate comments Mike B... but they just seemed too defensive & un-neccessary... & IMHO did de-rail the discussion somewhat)
posted
Its not gavins points I totally disagree with, its his style of getting them across. Belittling someone to illustrate a point, such as dummy, ass kisser,etc., aint the way to do it.
-------------------- Maker of fine signs and other creative stuff. Located at 109 N. Cumberland ave. Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-837-0242 Posts: 4172 | From: Ages-Brookside, Ky. Up the Holler... | Registered: Jul 1999
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Sometimes we are all dummies and ass kissers. Hey, I admit that I can. Heck, I can be a real jerk sometimes, too. Sometimes we just can't help ourselves.
I won't speak for Gavin but I didn't think his post was all that bad and he did make some very valid points. It is hard for me to read every word he writes and I have to fight the temptation to just skim over it.
Hey, thanks again for my awesome Panel Swap panel... I can see it from here!
-------------------- Bruce Bowers
DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter Posts: 6451 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
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alright, alright, let's quit complainin' about the way Gavin types and get back to the issue at hand: OP's misuse of punctuation and misspelling!
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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OK.. I lost "my money on Mike B" but I wanted to add the hardastheymaybetoread... I agree that Gavin makes good points that justify the effort to read them,
but, back on track...
quote: here iam connected to a search and rescue(all volenteer). iam also teaching a class...
OP teaching? thats a scary thought.. but "connected to a search and rescue"? wtf does that mean? a repeat customer (regular victim)? hahaha
posted
Mike Paul,how you could inject yourself into my response i really don't know,but perhaps the fact that I didn't mention you by name should have been a tip off. It's also too bad that some people here don't know (on a pulled political post) that Mr Deaton there doesn't care for me since we locked horns because don't share the same political views, and because I'm not a resident. Big deal in the grand scheme of things,but hey things happen. The only thing I can offer you John is that if what I write or the way i write doesn't meet your standards of acceptability, then skip on down to the next reply. Sorry, but I have no intention of changing how I write or what I say for you or anyone else,I enjoy being myself far too much to do that......I post here because i get enjoyment in knowing just maybe one person out of 4000 that register here *might* walk away after reading something i posted and maybe will retain it.........I spend zero time worrying about offending people by telling the truth or giving honest answers to those who are going to put themselves to the forefront of every post and automatically assume the post is solely about them. Funny noone here can read what i write yet theres never a shortage of people who are willing to tell me that . And Bruce,you're right,you're not speaking for me...I never had a problem doing that for myself.
-------------------- Gavin Chachere Plotter in the garage,New Orleans La.
"Sgts Shugart and Gordon again request permission to rope down to crash site two" Posts: 1223 | From: new orleans.la. | Registered: Mar 2000
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It isn't that I can't tead what you write. I said I have a hard time reading because there isn't any breaks. I literally have to follow line by line with my finger. Hey, what do you care? You don't have to try and read it... LOL!
See ya on chat!
-------------------- Bruce Bowers
DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter Posts: 6451 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
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One thing you dont know about me Gavin, is I dont hold grudges. Lots of things have been said on this board that upset me, but it always passes. Just as it did with you and your replies on the aforementioned political post. I left for a few months after that happened, cause I was letting stuff get to me. On this post, what you said may have had merit, but in my opinion was lost in the way it was said. I didnt come down on you about it, just disagreed with the tone in which it was offered. Thats the way you are and thats fine. You seem to have alot of friends on here, and it seems I am outnumbered in my thinking of how you offered up your thoughts. I dont agree with alot of things said on this board, as I am sure there are alot of people that dont agree with what I say at times, but, Im hungry right now, so Im gonna go eat something greasy and fried and artery clogging. And one other thing, I dont blame anybody for anything that happens to me concerning work. I stay very busy and dont worry too much about competition. I have five other vinyl shops around me now. Ill just continue to put out the work at the prices I know its worth and thatll be that.
-------------------- Maker of fine signs and other creative stuff. Located at 109 N. Cumberland ave. Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-837-0242 Posts: 4172 | From: Ages-Brookside, Ky. Up the Holler... | Registered: Jul 1999
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posted
Damn, David, do we like owe you fifty cents for that tidbit? LOL!!!
-------------------- Bruce Bowers
DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter Posts: 6451 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
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posted
Bruce, believe me you're gonna pay. Time to let Bob's snake out. Mike Berry, take a look at that flaming folder icon next to this post, do your job.
-------------------- Wright Signs Wyandotte, Michigan Posts: 2785 | From: Wyandotte, MI USA | Registered: Jan 1999
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posted
Most of my Sign Painting Career has been part time while I was in the Air Force and after my retirement, while I worked for The Air Force and The Air Force Headquarters Command as an Illustrator.
I have never been a cutthroat. Most of the time, I have been the most expensive Shop in Town, paying lease, insurance, taxes just like the full time guys.
I always sent the Price Shoppers to the other guy...while he is tied up doing the cheap stuff, I get the gravy.
-------------------- Rove Gratz Gratz Signs 342 Walden Station Drive Macon, GA 31216 rovegratz@aol.com Home Page: http://rove-342.tripod.com Posts: 861 | From: Macon, GA 31216 | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
SO MUCH good stuff contained here. I'd have to sit alone and ponder it seriously to get all I could, but the following are some initial thoughts:
I'm seeing some pendulum type action here.
Often the emotionally charged issues provoke people to in depth responses, too bad it brings conflict. The truth is that SOME part time sign people act like such and such, SOME full time sign people are the bad practicioners. That's the only way to make sense and glean from these replies. Otherwise, how do you know who's right? It all becomes contradictory post modern nonsense.
I'm thinking that part of the puzzle pieces aren't showing in this discussion.More pendulum, or maybe "dominoes" is the right term:
Running a sign shop, with all it's expenses, makes for some "high" ( I know that's relative) sign prices. So John Doe thinks to himself: "I could sell that for less". But why is John Doe needing extra money? Because money doesn't go as far.
In order to maintain the same standard of living as his parents, he has to work more hours. His wife working is just an extension of this.
All the companies he buys from have to protect themselves from a constant stream of skammers, junk lawsuits, thieves, so they add that into their prices.
He's paying lots of money in interest for a house, car, appliances, etc.
Health care costs, which includes the doctor's soaring malpractice insurance.
So EVERYBODY'S expenses are higher, and it leads to this kind of free for all, chaotic marketplace.
With the technology around us, we should be able to more with less time and money, instead of a situation that is desperately opposite of that.
I think the problem is much bigger than who's ignorant of true business costs.
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
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I think many people (not all) in a position (mindset, &/or lifestyle) to take on a new business venture or career change are more likely to meet a few other criteria... one might be that they often are not(yet)indulging in an excessive material lifestyle, & another might be a willingness to struggle & make sacrifices as part of the price for making change & taking on new challenges.
If this theory is even partly true... a new guy offering lower prices, while still directly related to lower overhead (if said new guy sacrifices commercial location, state-of-the-art equipment, impressive new shop truck etc. etc.)may never see himself as "lowballing"... and even if he knows of the higher "market value" established by some, or most of the competition... this new guy, who sacrifices some of the material worlds offerings partly because they're too dang expensive, actually considers the competitions prices to be "gouging" and his prices to be fair. This hypothetical new person identifies better with the mindset of a consumer who resists some material excess as a lifestyle choice... & some as a economical neccessity (which of course subconsciously influences lifestyle choices anyway)
...so if this theory that low-priced competition could sometimes be a result of an altruistic view of moderation in material excess keeping overhead down, & moderation of profit required keeping prices down...
is the difference between the low-priced new guy & the expensive veteran always as black & white as good & bad, or right & wrong?
Note that my hypothetical new guy is cutting out the fat in legitimate ways (home-based... less expensive equipment, vehicle, home, food, lifestyle) NOT by illegally employing un-insured workers, dodging taxes, or schlepping calendared vinyl & coroplast...
I think it is as black & white as "what is a dollar worth?"
What is a dollar worth anyway???
...more here then there... more tomorrow then yesterday... more to these guys then to those guys.
I realize that this long winded spiel sounds like a roundabout way of saying not all business people with low prices are ignorant fools or maliciously watering down percieved value...
but it is also a reply to James about technology not seeming to make life easier. The new guy above was me in many ways, & I live paycheck-to-paycheck today like I did 7-1/2 years ago when I started, but the difference is where my check goes. Now it goes to a mortgage on a house, a new truck payment, Digital equipment lease, an IRA, family health insurance, fine dining, the best tools, computers & home furnishings etc. etc.
The reason technology isn't making life easier for many of us, is we (I) fall into the trap of wanting all the technological new material things in my home, my shop, my truck, the places I do business... want want want... new new new hi-tech hi-tech hi-tech.
I was talking about marketing yesterday & discussing ways to make more money in less time. I admitted that although many of my shoot-from-the-hip prices are easily enough to cover labor & material at a profit... I don't get turned down enough meaning I could get more! Not only could I get more from the mid-range clients who are happy with my prices, by raising them enough to where they "willingly" pay... instead of "happily" pay... I could raise them even more to eliminate the mid-range clients & only serve the high-range clientele.
The problem I could also fall into is making more money... but wasting that "extra" time learning about new technological advances to invest in furthering my excessive material lifestyle.
After consciously resisting for 2 decades, I'm glad that I bought into part of the typical American dream of owning a business instead of working harder for $10 an hour in the shop up the street like I was 8 years ago, & I'm glad I have a decent house, a reliable truck & health insurance... but I think the advantages of opportunities in America are all-too-often negated by the lure of the American dream.
If I think I need more... I can charge more... & I'll still probably work more.
If I can switch to needing less... I can charge less... & I can probably even work less... & I would probably be happier!!
...as long as I never let anyone here know I was charging less
posted
Doug, I'm glad about what you've accomplished, especially in your "location, location, location!" But I KNOW it requires alot of work and concentration.
When you said John Doe might consider the new shop truck, nice shop, and equipment as material excesses, it kind of brings up the point I'm trying to make. (Not that you didn't already get it, I'm just trying to hammer it some more.)
This is for everyone:
I'm thinking that the technology around us as a whole country should make those "excesses" an everyday reality. The price of housing, cars, you name it would be low enough for everyone to have. But prices are through the cieling.
Occaisionally the politicians tell us how good the economy is. I say phooey. If the economy were great, you'd only have to work 4 days a week, and spend one day on art, self improvement, charity, whatever, this while maintaining the "American Dream". Working 5 days work start you toward wealth.
SO MANY hidden costs. So people spend their "extra" time trying to get a few bucks. Folks, your money aint what it once was. That's why a silver dollar from the early '60's is worth 4 bucks (or whatever an ounce of silver sells for today.) The government took us off the gold standard years ago, so people really don't have anything stable to compare a dollar to. It's all a big show where people don't know what things cost, all long as the standard of living is maintained. Work more hours, pay more in interest than your grandparents would ever allow themselves to.
You want to do something different and interesting? Try this: Get a tape recorder. Go out and interview some old folks ( like 70 or 80). They really don't mind. Ask them about life back when. They'll tell you that they saved up money for a down payment on a house, then paid it off in 5 years. Or they bought land, built a tiny cottage, which later became the guest house, and while living in the cottage, built the big house. And BUILT is the word. Often stronger than codes called for.
Ask them how many divorced and remarried people they knew. They'll stop, concentrate, and come up with one or two names.
Leave it to Jimbo to bring politics AND religion into a thread, but you're just dancing around the edges if you don't recognize the CAUSE AND EFFECT relationships about turning away from God.
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
BTW, I'm not condemninig all debt. I think I read recently that Karen Bush only has a couple payments left on her truck. It'd be my guess that she's not driving a piece o' junk. That's impressive.
But I think alot of people in debt are closer to being "upside down", or even bankrupt.
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
Most of the people who are working part-time jobs now are doing so to have more stuff. I know some people work part-time to bring in enough money to run their household if they are in low paying jobs to begin with.
I don't think one has to work more now to have the same life style as one's parents.
I am older than many on this board, but if my hypothetical parents were in the Sign Business:
My Mother probably did not work outside the home.
My Father the Sign Painter probably did not have a part-time job.
They probably had one radio in the house. Not a component sound system, or systems if you have children.
If they had a TV it was probably the only one in the house, not one of three or more with surround sound connected to cable or a satellite system.
They probably had one phone which served for the business as well as the household, unless the business was located away from the house.
They probably had one vehicle for the household, without air-conditioning, not three or more as most households have now.
He probably did not have an air-condidioned shop or house.
They seldom, if ever went out to eat at a restaurant, unless they were traveling.
I have worked part-time most of my adult life. Most of my part-time work has been as a Sign Painter. While my full time job was running a Motion Picture Lab, Photo Lab or as an Illustrator.
I think after all is said and done, I did it because I Love doing it.
By the way, before I retired from my last job I worked a 4 day week as did everyone else in the shop.
-------------------- Rove Gratz Gratz Signs 342 Walden Station Drive Macon, GA 31216 rovegratz@aol.com Home Page: http://rove-342.tripod.com Posts: 861 | From: Macon, GA 31216 | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
gotta agree w/ Rove on this one... if we didn't desire more then our parents we wouldn't have to work more. Just because cool things got invented doesn't mean we need one... or 3
posted
James: Steve & Barb have asked repeatedly for no religious or political posts. Thanks for deciding you are exempt from that.
Oh, and thank you for more of your sexist comments, far from being your first, doubted to be your last and for condeming everyone who chooses NOT to believe in your religion. I keep forgetting women aren't allowed to WANT to work, they're suppost to stay home on their backs, spouting out more brats & serving the all important man. If that's what your religion tells you, I'm damn proud to state I will never believe in your god.
-------------------- Chris Welker Wildfire Signs Indiana, Pa Posts: 4254 | From: Indiana, PA | Registered: Mar 2001
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Chris, you've expressesd yourself so well. Now I'm trying to figure out who this guy James is that you regard so warmly. His beliefs don't fit mine, see.
Women can't work? Best boss I had was a woman. What I'm talking about is women FORCED to work, just to maintain a standard of "living". Back when, a woman could be home for her children if she chose to, and spend time during the week volunteering at the Red Cross, things like that. I really do believe that "the hand that rocks the cradle rule the world". My wife home schools our children, because we think the public school teaching is incomplete.
And what do I do? I run around trying to make a buck. Sometimes I really do wonder who serves who. That and I've recently come to see an area of life where women actually have the superior approach, but I havn't wanted to bring that up, 'cause it is rather OT.
As far as religious and political posts, is that a post or a reply? I don't think I'm splitting hairs here. Sure, I could be certain to not utter a single word that was along those lines, but in the above topic, it would only further the illusion that everything's OK.
Or maybe I could use the blank approach: Your money's not worth what it once was because.....took us off the gold standard.
When was the last time you saw me START a topic that was political or religious? It may have happened, but it's certainly not common.
I think it would be wierd to always dance around the edges, skirt the issue, etc. I don't engage in much nonsense entertainment, and I do alot of studying on topics, including religion and politics. By comparison, my replies here are VERY modest.
Actually, I appreciatte the fact that you can rail against my replies. If I wasn't capable of defending myself on a given topic, then you would prove me wrong, and that's how it ought to be.
You know, I don't get up in the morning, wring my hands together, and think:" Today I'm going to tick alot of people off by saying they left God. Boy I can hardly wait!!". I know it's not profitable in alot of relationships, but I usually try to be silent or brutaly honest. I don't go along with the party line, regardless of who's saying it.
I could further address things you said, but so much of it was too cliche. Life is quite complex, simple accusations and answers won't cut it. You're a smart woman, I know you can do better.
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
Yes I can do a lot better. I can read and remember Steve & Barb's numerous requests that nothing religious be posted. I apologize to Steve & Barb.
I can also realize when I've come across someone who just isn't worthy of my time.
-------------------- Chris Welker Wildfire Signs Indiana, Pa Posts: 4254 | From: Indiana, PA | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
It just occured to me that hey, maybe I do need to adjust my thinking.Sort of like how I'm always thinking people need to deal with reality, not idealism. So maybe financial things could be discussed this way: OK, there's this problem, and this problem, and the other problem, but this is how we deal with our financial things in the immediate context, nevermind what got us here. That may contain sarcasm, but it's not my primary intention. Like maybe it's posible to discuss and help people understand financial things in the here and now.
Lately I've been getting people asking me to paint things: equipment, cars, trailers. It's really hard to find rust, corrosion, whatever, and not want to deal with the source of the water. Sometimes, they're willing to pay me (not cheap) to paint over something, and not find the cause of the problem first. That's hard for me to comprehend. But hey, maybe it's possible to discuss things that way.
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
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![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
then this guy would affect zero about who you are and what you do,or your present customer base. If someone like this does,maybe thats a message to take a good hard look at how you,that dummy that looks back at you in the mirror, actually runs your business and handles your customers, and stop being so full of your own a*s that you think you're entitled to the whole pie without making the effort to get more than one slice.....at the very least it oughta give you a dose of reality that noone in any industry is irreplaceable no matter what it is you think you do,thats the message thats getting missed here. If the same guy showed up and posted here that he was doing it as a second job and said he liked the sign biz by now we would have invited him to 37 different letterhead meets,bought him a stevens book and kissed his a*s so much it would have blisters while telling him how absolutely breathtaking whatever work he posted is..until the poor SOB asked for clipart. Mike Berry,I hope you read Joe Endicott's post and a couple of the others,because you've been around here long enough to know that what people say here and what they actually do here are two completely separate issues...if you stop and notice...all this "it's how I make my living" is a do as i say i do not as i really do...if anyone here actually was willing to live by this same morality,why are there so many here so willing and so quick to print their own buisness cards,make their own app fluid,build their own equipment or paint an entire vehicle with 1shot when all of those are are ways that others make their living...unless of course they do it because they dont charge what they need to charge to buy the correct tool or use the correct procedure for the job. In that case,its the fault of the guy up the street of course. Chin up and don't let the what you read here make you form an opinion unless the naysayers are gonna send you a check everymonth. The fact that some are willing to think you make an astronomical salary as a fireman oughta be a sign. Don't let it burn your a*s...literally.
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But I KNOW it requires alot of work and concentration.
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