Have one in your town? I do. It sucks. He has absolutly no appreciation for the trade so he charges 1/2 of what all us hard working, health insurance paying, overhead paying, sign shop do every month.
On a side note, Would it be legal for him to aquire any of the local electric, water, police, fire, vehicles in the same town? Mike
[ August 04, 2004, 08:54 AM: Message edited by: Mike Paul ]
-------------------- Mike Auto Graphix New Jersey graphix@nac.net Posts: 32 | From: Butler New Jersey | Registered: Oct 2003
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Maybe you could have him arrested by the Sign Police. Seems like he's out of his jurisdiction being in this trade.
How about having him suspended for "Coroplast unbecoming an officer".
Just go over and tell him what he's doing. What's he gonna do...arrest you for being honest?
All kidding aside, he's no different than anyone else whacking out crap. Short term and most likely going to get the idea one way or another that this isn't like upholding the law.
Criminals are much nicer than tire kicking customers...and they go to jail for attempted robbery. Customers don't. Rapid
-------------------- Ray Rheaume Rapidfire Design 543 Brushwood Road North Haverhill, NH 03774 rapidfiredesign@hotmail.com 603-787-6803
I like my paint shaken, not stirred. Posts: 5648 | From: North Haverhill, New Hampshire | Registered: Apr 2003
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""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3484 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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While I can appreciate your displeasure, I sincerely doubt it is illegal for him to do vehicles for the municipality that employs him as an officer.
It may give him an unfair advantage and I am sure that nepotism will rear it's ugly head. Unethical doesn't always mean illegal. My Daddy used to say, "What is legal isn't always right."
I have run into similar situations where someone connected with the city, village, town, county, whatever has a friend, brother, uncle, daughter (fill in whatever peeve relation here) that does signs on the side, in their house, garage, trunk of the car, small wooden tool shed in the backyard, whatever.
What really burns you is that they often have no appreciable talent, learned how to make signs by answering an ad in the back of Popular Mechanics, use vinyl materials that would be barely suitable to find a life as a pool liner repair kit, use color combinations and layouts that would leave Chester Cunningham, Emmitt Morelli, and Mike Stevens screaming from the beyond, and use the absolute cheapest and inappropriate materials for the signs one could imagine.
Funny how all those jobs that never have to go out for bid because of some obscure loophole, prices just under the mandatory bidding level, whatever. This goes on until the relation retires, gives up making signs, gets their cutter repossessed, dies, whatever.
Then some other whatever comes around and the whole process stars all over again.
You know what? It's called "real life". Sucks, huh?
Just hang on to the hope that someday, somewhere, somehow, YOU will become that golden sign child and you will become that whatever to someone else. Only this time, you will get it right.
One can only hope, Dude!
[ August 04, 2004, 12:38 AM: Message edited by: Bruce Bowers ]
-------------------- Bruce Bowers
DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter Posts: 6451 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
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got one here retired military 20+ yrs.(1 paycheck) gets a job at the sheriffs dept in the vehicle maint garage,(2nd paycheck) and does all the lettering of the police vehicles(3rd paycheck)......and has a sign shop a block away from the sheriffs/garage/jail!!!!!(4th paycheck) now talk about havin it all.....
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Actually I am a full time Union firefighter that has worked as a firefighter for 14+ years. I just so happen to do a few signs and build sign brackets as well. It's America, we can do this!
I have inquired about doing lettering on city vehicles. The fleet manager says it's a conflict of interest, the purchasing director says it's fine. The city garage has their body shop guys do the "stickering" as they call it. They buy the lettering from the prision. The police department has their own mechanic and he's into racing. So his buddy that has a copy shop has bought a plotter. He's now a full fledged sign guy that just happens to supply the police department with their stuff. It IS all who you know, a fact of life that we are not going to change!
Whereas I am a homeowner/taxpayer, what the police department and the rest of the city pays for lettering is public information. Beleive me, for what they are paying, I'll go drown worms or watch the grass grow, it would be more profitable.
Kent- I don't know what your trying to say with your quote....
quote:Most towns & cities have firemen that do the same. Sleep at the station at night, make signs the next day.
I am hoping this is not some sort of slam. It's my chosen primary occupation. That's just the schedule. 2 days and 2 nights then 4 days off. If you think it's all peaches & cream, I have news for you. Come to work with me for a day, do the physically demanding training we do on a regular basis, (90 degrees out, full turnout gear, airpack, climb a 110' ladder, crawl in a smoke filled building, etc)I am pretty sure you will go home with a different opinion/view/understanding of what we do. (not all departments do what we do, be it good or bad) My wife is a teacher, people give her grief all the time about having 10 weeks off in the summer. Again, go to work with her for a day, then spend another 3+ hours doing behind the scene stuff on her own time at home with 2 little kids and again, I think that anyone would leave with a totally different view & respect for what a teacher does. For every hour of classroom teaching involves at least 1/2 of that in prep time.
That's my ramble.
Now the can to open is really the state prisions doing sign stuff. We as taxpayers get to buy the equipment, the supplies, pay for the buildings heat, A/C, power and we go on and on, then they sell the stuff to towns, cities and the state. Around here you see their work everywhere. Now that's a problem in my eyes. At least us firemen pay for own own stuff, even the insurance.
(edited for spelling)
[ August 04, 2004, 07:10 AM: Message edited by: Michael Berry ]
-------------------- Mike Berry New England Posts: 534 | From: New England | Registered: Jan 2002
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MY 2 Cents: Mike, I TRY to not let that stuff bother me. Although I'm nothing compared to most "real" letterheads (I can't paint), we're pretty good at what we do. People who are willing to pay for a good sign probably won't go to these nickel & dimers. So in the end, the'll work 10 times harder than you, have less time for their familes, make crappy work...excuse me... as Bruce said: "have no appreciable talent", make more or less what you're making & still burn out in the end... I'll quit here, I think this is gonna get ugly...
-------------------- Felix Marcano PuertoRicoSigns.Com Luquillo, PR
Work hard, party like a tourist! Posts: 2274 | From: Luquillo, Puerto Rico, USA | Registered: Nov 2000
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"Real talent" is extracting a fair payment from your customer. I don't care what the sign looks like, if the customer wants it and pays what you ask, then you are a professional.
The low end customers know who they are, often they will demand the worst possible layout just to look cheaper to their customers. You won't convince these people to spend more. There will always be a market for the cheapest worst looking crap. Why worry about it?
ernie
-------------------- Ernie Balch Balch Signs 1045 Raymond Rd Malta, NY 518-885-9899 Posts: 405 | From: Malta, NY | Registered: Jan 2003
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So many interesting opinions here, but what it boils down to, Mike, is to keep doing your own thing. Specialize in something that only YOU can offer. Build your own client base and to Hell with Barney Fife.
I know it sucks, and I feel your pain. But there will always be competition both good and bad. Thankfully, there is enough sign work to go around.
Broooce, you are sooooooo funny sometimes. Love...Jill
-------------------- That is like a Mr. Potato Head with all the pieces in the wrong place. -Russ McMullin Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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Got one around here that opened a shop recently. Works at a restaurant during the day, signman at night (not that there's anything wrong with that). He has a set of 18 x 24 coroplast signs, "a la Burma Shave" lining the highway with messages like: "SIGN'S $15 EACH (QUANTITIES OF 5 OR MORE)". Yes, apostrophe included. Layout all the way to the top and edges. His own 2 x 3 .040 aluminum sign fell off after swinging on the pole for about a week. Holes were drilled about 1/8" from the top, 1" in from the edges. I figure some idiots will buy from him, caveat emptor (buyer beware). I don't figure he'll be in it for the long haul. Just a blip on the screen. It won't take much for these guys to be challenged by a customer, be frustrated in the attempt, fail in the effort and not get paid for the product. Time wounds all heels.
-------------------- Gene Golden Gettysburg Signs Gettysburg PA 17325 717-334-0200 genegolden@gettysburgsigns.com
"Art is knowing when to stop." Posts: 1578 | From: Gettysburg, PA | Registered: Jun 2003
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It sucks when you see jobs go to this twit, jobs you had great mental images of and would have had fun with, then he gets the job & it now looks like someone puked on aluminum.
Will he hurt your business in the bigger picture? Only if your specialty is puke-al-a-aluminum. Set yourself apart and ride it out.
The worst part of all of this will be once he's gone and there's all these fugly signs around town. If ya need inspiration to keep you sane while he's covering the town in puke, think about how great it'll feel when you start replacing thses thing. Taking down one of his fugly ones, chucking it into the dumpster & replacing it with 1 of yours, paradise.
-------------------- Chris Welker Wildfire Signs Indiana, Pa Posts: 4254 | From: Indiana, PA | Registered: Mar 2001
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Forgot to mention that this post title sounds like an Adam Sandler song! Love.........Jill
-------------------- That is like a Mr. Potato Head with all the pieces in the wrong place. -Russ McMullin Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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I put out a higher end product than most around this area. he can't kill me. Although I do like those little bread and butter jobs for fill in/cash work. "Barney fife" too funny Jill! Mike !
-------------------- Mike Auto Graphix New Jersey graphix@nac.net Posts: 32 | From: Butler New Jersey | Registered: Oct 2003
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This sort of thing has gone on forever way before computers came into play. There were always sign painters that held regular jobs and painted on the side. Firefighters had hours that made it quite easy. Nothing wrong with that UNTIL they take the price cutting attitude. They don't have to account for any insurance or any other "business" related expenses. When I had my shop many years ago, I recieved a call from a woman representing some sort of fire fighters association. She was looking for a donation for putting out a booklet that listed all the fire fighters "second jobs" along with their phone numbers.She went on to tell me how they had auto mechanics, carpenters, brick masons, etc. and how you could save soooooo much money by using these people as their prices were much lower than "regular businesses" how these people didn't have to worry with "regular business expenses" and such. I asked her if there were any sign painters listed ( as I knew there would be ) "Why yes there are" she happily responded. Anybody that knows me real well can imagine what went on next
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
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Hiya Mike, Find some time and visit this new sign maker. Introduce yourself and make sure you bring a copy of the Computer Graphics Pricing Guide, available here through the book store. I found it better to educate these people and teach them the correct way to run their business versus trying to work against them. One day he may really be your competition. If worse comes to worse, you always can send him the cheapos and time wasters that you don't want to deal with.
Havin' fun,
Checkers
-------------------- a.k.a. Brian Born www.CheckersCustom.com Harrisburg, Pa Work Smart, Play Hard Posts: 3775 | From: Harrisburg, Pa. U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 1998
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someone is any business is doing it so cheap its embarrassing.
So, I send them all kinds of literature about sign pricing and the proper ways to price stuff. At least they get some education. Often they dont have an idea of what the real value is.
And more, I get lots of my own work by going around and pressing some flesh. It works. oh yes it works.
-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5273 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
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quote:Firefighters had hours that made it quite easy. Nothing wrong with that UNTIL they take the price cutting attitude. Firefighters had hours that made it quite easy. Nothing wrong with that UNTIL they take the price cutting attitude. They don't have to account for any insurance or any other "business" related expenses.
George,
Is that right???!! Maybe in your part of the world that applies, but I would not even think about anything unless the proper insurances were obtained. But that's just me. Folks drive cars without insurance, have apartments without renters insurance and run businesses uninsured and or without any insurance, I guess if folks do that, then they are pretty stupid, and anyone that deals with them are taking a chance. I know of at least one " real " sign person that has a business and employees without insurance, so it's not just us firefighters.
I'll stop now because this is going way off the intended road. I have my opinions and experiences, and you have had your experiences which by the sounds of it have not been the best.
It's not my intention to upset anybody, if I have, please accept my apoligies.
-------------------- Mike Berry New England Posts: 534 | From: New England | Registered: Jan 2002
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If your doing the same kind of work that the cop does then you should be worried. If not then stop wasting time looking in your rear view mirror.
part timers or not this will be untill the end of time in every profession, hey I even put out fires part time, and I do them for the same price the local fire department does them for. lol
I just don't get involved in the big fires, just the ones I can handle.
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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I'm not trying to be nasty or facitious, but I am curious as to why Professional Policemen/women, Firefighters et al, who are Union represented and make decent wages, find the need to have these "secondary occupations" and /or business interests ? Does their "primary occupation" not provide sufficient renumeration ? As a business, I regularly get calls from the Police Association soliciting a donation to support their campaigns or agendas of a political lobbying nature. Whenever I wish to participate in anything of this sort, I pay for it myself...out of my own pocket. Are these public servants so poorly underpaid that they have to work at secondary jobs to support their families, and solicit the business community to promote things like anti-drug or reporting the releases of known sexual offenders.
-------------------- Ken Henry Henry & Henry Signs London, Ontario Canada (519) 439-1881 e-mail: kjmlhenry@rogers.com
Why do I get all those on-line offers to sell me Viagara, when the only thing hardening is my arteries ? Posts: 2684 | From: London,Ontario, Canada | Registered: Feb 1999
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Read "An Opinion About the Sign Game" by Bob Stephans a.k.a. SignManiac. It's here on this site somewhere I think. I stumbled across it, read it, printed it, and carry it with me in my briefcase like a Bible. I'm part-time sign guy also (for 13 years now, holy cow! time flies). I have a loyal base of customers who like what I do for them. I offer them my best and charge like I'm doing it full time. I respect the industry and wouldn't think twice about "whoring" out my work. If someone wants to go to "Mr. Cheap Signs" because I'm too high that's OK. I'd rather spend time playing in the yard with my kids.
Thanks to everyone on this site for being a great inspiration by the way. You're awesome.
-------------------- Ron Wakefield Signs by Ron Southington, CT ron@signsbyron.com Posts: 71 | From: Southington, CT | Registered: Jul 2004
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I don't mind part timers. Its the beer distributors that bug me. They have saesmen out selling beer and than the get the work of lettering windows if they can put budweiser on it. We would be getting a lot more work from pachage stores and restaurants in my are if it werent for the "FREE" bud signs.
JAKE
-------------------- Jake Lyman Lyman Signs 45 State Road Phillipston, MA 01331 Posts: 635 | From: Phillipston, MA | Registered: Sep 2002
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mr berry nothing personal....but after reading your post on the hard life you lead as a union fireman and the tough life your wife has as a school teacher, and since you also do signs as well. as a person who has been doing SIGN RELATED WORK(because i love this work) for more years then you have been working as a fireman i dont want to seem rude to you but if its such a tough life and it wears you and your wife down....then i wouldnt do it!!!! i had a cop stop me one time and and give me a ticket and and told me almost the same story and also that they dont pay him enough to put up with people like me...to which i answered..."YOU PULLED ME OVER....i didnt want to talk to you!""" i also had the job/jobs that promised retirement in 20, health insurance, and other assorted benifits,and bullcrap, but me being the dummy i am i pursued this line of work rather then stay in a job i detested. so then this is my only question to you and your wife about the hard path you take for your vocation, if its that unrewarding and requires so much, you either like it and accept the down side of it, or stop doing it! and for an avocation you choose to do my job......sorta funny, maybe i should get a part time job as a firefighter.... or school teacher.........since i already do signs..hehehehehe
[ August 04, 2004, 02:35 PM: Message edited by: old paint ]
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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As much as I promised myself I wasn't going to get into this, I feel I need to set you straight....
quote:but after reading your post on the hard life you lead as a union fireman and the tough life your wife has as a school teacher, and since you also do signs as well. as a person who has been doing SIGN RELATED WORK(because i love this work) for more years then you have been working as a fireman i dont want to seem rude to you but if its such a tough life and it wears you and your wife down....then i wouldnt do it!!!!
I never claimed that we have a "hard life" and I love my job as a Union Firefighter. My wife also loves her job as a Teacher.
The way I read the earlier post (am I am sure I am reading it wrong ) it sounds to me that folks think that we sit around playing checkers and sleeping the whole night, just to wake up the next day to go make/sell signs.
The reason that I threw my wife under the tires is because for some reason recently, folks just are always bitchin' about teachers, and how they have vacations during the year and summers off. I was attempting to make folks sit up and understand that teachers earn the summers off. There was never any attempt to make folks think that we have a "hard life" we don't.
Actually Old Paint, we are pretty damn lucky. We both have great retirement plans, health insurance for life after retirement and a ton to be thankful for!!
When I retire at 45 years old, I plan to do even more sign and bracket work on a full time basis.
As far as
quote: maybe i should get a part time job as a firefighter.... or school teacher.........since i already do signs..hehehehehe
if you think you got what it takes.....just try it, it's even more than you think, I promise you that....
-------------------- Mike Berry New England Posts: 534 | From: New England | Registered: Jan 2002
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Wow Op, that was well reasoned and stated pretty much all I want to say. Very Good!
Ok, just a little more. Mike did fine defending his job and such, but what we, who have to make our living solely from signs, could write.
No point in that because most of you know all too well the nut we have to crack everyday to survive. But why go into that, like Don Corleone said, this is the life we chose.
-------------------- Wright Signs Wyandotte, Michigan Posts: 2785 | From: Wyandotte, MI USA | Registered: Jan 1999
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We have a sheriff's deputy here that has his own plotter. He doesn't do his dept. cars, but everyone else's. He does a fully reflective(2 color) police car for $165.
posted
Maybe the cop realized what a crappy profession he got himself into... 21 days straight on a shift and only 2 or 3 days off in between.. having to appear in court, unpaid, on a day off... having to deal with the *real* bottom feeders of this fine society we've carved out for ourselves, not just the petty lowballers we have to deal with in our profession... maybe his wife left him and took the kids because she couldn't handle his paranoia. Ever meet a cop that wasn't paranoid there was always someone waiting around the corner to take advantage? I didn't think so - I had to live with one of them.
Maybe "sign making" is his stress outlet, instead of ending up at a bar after his shift drinking himself stupid like 90% of all policemen. My dad got into woodworking and jewelry building.
Maybe he doesn't know any better.
Maybe he's just trying to build a name so he can get out of being a cop.
Haven't most of us started somewhere we didnt want to be?
Did we all come right out of the gate just knowing where our prices should be?
Is all of our work considered masterpieces? Did we all have perfect design and layout skills right from the get-go?
Anyone actually talk to the guy? Is he *really* a jerk whose sole intention is to beat everyone's prices? Or does he just not know how to go about commanding more for his work?
Regardless of what anyone thinks, Ernie is right. This guy fills a market. People want cheap ugly looking crap and he's right there to provide it for them.
People that don't want cheap ugly crap will go elsewhere provided they know where to go to get good product. Make it known that's the kind of work you do and they will seek you out. If there aren't any of these people in your area either move, target areas where there *are* these kinds of people, or change your business so you can serve the market at hand.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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Plotters and software have made it possible for people that years ago would have not even considered being in the sign business to make that jump. And its a small jump. 2 grand for a good plotter, 500 for a computer, find someone with some cracked software and you are in business. In my small town, we now have five different "shops" other than myself. It has affected business to some point. Most of the people come to me for the custom stuff, but lately seem to go elsewhere for the coro and metal signs or magnetics. Its hard at times to get jobs, and Mike B., I hope you see our point about someone already making a good living at a hard job going into the sign business as a sideline. It affects the ones that do it as their only living. But, thats free enterprise. Technology has made many things possible. Not all bad, not all good. I keep trying to offer things my competitors cant. Hopefully itll all work out.
-------------------- Maker of fine signs and other creative stuff. Located at 109 N. Cumberland ave. Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-837-0242 Posts: 4172 | From: Ages-Brookside, Ky. Up the Holler... | Registered: Jul 1999
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Mike, I see nothing before your post for you to get defensive about. A lot of people start and build their signshop while still holding a fulltime job instead of going in debt to the wazoo and jumping into the quicksand without a rope or a clue. There is nothing wrong with that, as long as they don't intentionally underprice just to be an ass or because they figure they don't need to charge the normal rate. All that does is screw the people who do this for a living without the security blanket of a paycheck.
In this case it's a cop. Kent stated firemen do it as well. Ok, you're a fireman. Do you charge ridiculously stupid prices? If not, get over Kent's comment. If you do, then you shouldn't feel defensive, you should feel guilty.
As for the defensiveness towards Perkin's post: You need to wake up & realize if you, as a taxpayer-paid employee (fireman, cop, dog catcher, DOT worker) also run a business on the side and actually charge accordingly, have insurance, licenses, collect sales tax and operate you are the exception to the rule.
-------------------- Chris Welker Wildfire Signs Indiana, Pa Posts: 4254 | From: Indiana, PA | Registered: Mar 2001
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Everyone here who has never had to struggle to get thier sign business off of the ground, including working part time at it, or part time at another job, raise your hand. . . . . . . . . . . . yeah, I thought so.
Rapid
-------------------- Ray Rheaume Rapidfire Design 543 Brushwood Road North Haverhill, NH 03774 rapidfiredesign@hotmail.com 603-787-6803
I like my paint shaken, not stirred. Posts: 5648 | From: North Haverhill, New Hampshire | Registered: Apr 2003
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Hell, NO! I was born one of those golden child sign dudes who was oozing with talent right out of the womb!
I make money for doing absolutely nothing. I don't have any real overhead. I just make gobs and gobs of money as those checks just pile up in my mailbox.
I don't do any real work. A couple of keystrokes and the signs just design themselves. They cut themselves, cut material mysteriously appears out of nowhere, vinyl is magically weeded, taped, and applied while we sleep off the previous night's bender.
Huh? You don't believe me? That's what all my customers think... Don't they realize I am just an uneducated and unintelligent sign slob? Sheesh.
Hahahahahahahahahahaha!
See ya in a couple!
-------------------- Bruce Bowers
DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter Posts: 6451 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
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Magically weeded vinyl - now there's a money-making product if anyone could come up with it.
People think our machines do that monkey-work for us.
I once had someone waiting in the office here while I weeded a quick job for him. He sees me weeding all the little crap out and he say "Oh man, you have to do all that stuff by hand? I thought the machine handled all that too but now I see why this kinda stuff costs what it does."
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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Nice post before Mike P. There are probably an unlimited number of reasons someone may make signs on the side. I for one do my work on the side because I must keep a full time job to help support my family. Just because I may get a job on the side doesn't mean I stole a job from a full time sign shop. If I design a logo and brochure for a business, it doesn't mean I stole work from a design firm. I have been involved in art since I was old enough to pick up a pencil. Just because I don't do this work full time doesn't mean I haven't earned the work. Maybe one day I will also be able to live from my art and design work. If not, I will still paint and design for others or myself after working at my other job.
-------------------- John Duckett Strike Creative Greenwood, South Carolina Posts: 277 | From: Greenwood, SC | Registered: Feb 2004
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I don't do anything on the side. I run all my business like its the only thing i do. I make some money. Each one I do does fine. Now if the cheapy cop type dude did that then there would never be a conflict between the full timers and the hobby timers.. YES???????????
Make money, all that you can on every job. But just one point. When some oen calls you asking for pricing help do u offer to meet with him? or do you give him some kind of story.
-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5273 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
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i don't think mike paul was complaining about people making signs on the side...his beef is when they charge 1/2 of what they should making us fulltime signmakers look like rip off artists.
i no longer try to justify my pricing to people...if they don't like it they can kiss my lily white ass and go to the cheap guy, get a shytty layout and calender vinyl...giddy up.
[ August 06, 2004, 11:35 AM: Message edited by: KARYN BUSH ]
-------------------- Karyn Bush Simply Not Ordinary, LLC Bartlett, NH 603-383-9955 www.snosigns.com info@snosigns.com Posts: 3516 | From: Bartlett, NH USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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mike, i know about being a fireman, i was a volenteer fireman in our small town in pa. most there dont have big city equipment, pay scales and union benifits or retirement. we did because of the want to help each other. been to many fires, worked my butt off at each one. my own house in pa went up in flames....i know fire. also when i was in college i was an assistant to the art prof. when he wasnt there i taught, so i have some teaching experiance. we also held extention community classes in the evening and i taught there as well. here iam connected to a search and rescue(all volenteer). iam also teaching a class in TAI CHI starting in sept. so i also have other interests.
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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![[Dunno]](graemlins/dunno.gif)
I'd do wish him well, but there is alot more to running a studio than just buying a plotter. ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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!
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
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Old Paint-![[Frown]](frown.gif)
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