posted
I've had to replace three high performance vinyl lettering jobs in the past few months. They were all on pvc substrates and the color is blue vinyl. The intermediate vinyls are not a problem. Anyone else having vinyl failures?
-------------------- Jean Shimp Shimp Sign & Design Co. Jacksonville Beach, Fl Posts: 1265 | From: Jacksonville Beach, Fl. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Haven't had any probs like what you describe Jean...BUT...
What vinyl brand and series?
What PVC product?
How did you clean the surface?
What exactly happened to the vinyl that required you to replace it?
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
posted
I'm thinking the substrate is the problem... Something tells me, from the past, that PVC exudes gas...thus bubbling vinyl. It's not the vinyl. In almost 17+ years of experiences? It's never the vinyl...
~k~
-------------------- Karen Wunch (kwunch on chat) A2Z SIGNS in Buford, GA 678.714.1965 ---------------- "Believe there is a great power silently working all things for good, behave yourself and never mind the rest." ~~Beatrice Potter Posts: 126 | From: Buford Georgia | Registered: Jan 2003
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Did the pvc have any sort of protective coating over it that you pulled off right before lettering it? I am not sure if it happens with pvc or not, but I seem to remember hearing that you are supposed to pull the film off of some types of substrates and let is 'gas out' for a while before applying.. this may be totally off base, just a thought
posted
I doubt that it's an outgassing problem. You would see bubbles trapped under the remaining vinyl.
If it's an adhesion failure, most likely is excess plasticizers migrating to the surface of the substrate. That used to be a regular problem with vinyl clad banner cloth.
Another possibility would be if the substrates were exposed at any time to airborne chemical release agents like silicone or teflon sprays. If that happened, normal surface prep procedures would most likely not be enough to prevent adhesive failure later since these agents are designed to be very difficult to remove once they contaminate a surface.
-------------------- Fred Weiss Allied Computer Graphics, Inc. 4620 Lake Worth Road Lake Worth, FL 33463 561 649-6300 allcompu@allcompu.com Posts: 427 | From: Lake Worth, Florida | Registered: Feb 2003
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Its only happened to me on 3 rolls of vinyl in 8 years running my business & 4 years running others. But because of the relativly good track record, when it did happen, it sometimes took 2 failures before I accepted the fact that I had to throw out a whole roll of vinyl.
I beg to differ with you. In my 25 plus years I have had exactly 2 vinyl failures. Once hi-perf, and once reflective. And no, it was NOT because of improper prep. It was defective vinyl. So, while rare, it DOES happen.
I have had limited experience with PVC, so your theory may be accurate. But Fred makes a good point about bubbling.
[ July 25, 2004, 08:54 PM: Message edited by: Rick Beisiegel ]
""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3484 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
I believe the problem is the PVC. Since PVC is a petroleum based product, I think the terrorists have found a way of contaminating the oil that it is produced from. Therefore they can prevent the vinyl from adhering to the plastic. In this way they can sabotage our advertising based monetary system and capitalistic ways. This is just a theory of course.
-------------------- Bob Stephens Skywatch Signs Zephyrhills, FL
posted
Bob, don't also forget the possibility it may be that a thin coat of 2nd hand (or foot) moondust blew over the pvc just as the vinyl was being put on...
-------------------- "Stewey" on chat
"...there are no limits when you aim for perfection..." Jonathan Livingston Seagull Posts: 7014 | From: Highgrove via Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia | Registered: Dec 2002
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Ian..Do you think they had really truly REAL moondust on the floor when they filmed that "moon landing" in that studio???
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
Was it the democrats or republicans who sabotaged the PVC supply? And if in fact they did, was it a conspiracy against vinyl sign guys.....and,if it is a conspiracy, are the paint based sign companies responsible? And, are they in cahoots with One Shot or Matthews? Ponderous, man.....Ponderous!!
[ July 26, 2004, 11:12 AM: Message edited by: Rick Beisiegel ]
""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3484 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
Polymigration, I have heard this term over the years (but very little) I think the problems with adhesion are usually a result of how we clean and prep or what we used.
Lots a folks out ther using products that were not designed for use with P.V.C. or adhesives for that matter.
Roger
-------------------- Roger Bailey Rapid Tac Incorporated 186 Combs Dr. Merlin Oregon 97532 Posts: 3020 | From: Merlin Oregon | Registered: Dec 1998
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