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Hi Everyone, I'm relatively new here, but have been reading practically everyday. Sooo much valuable information moving here as well as a lot of laughs in the OT posts. Today I need some advice. I've got a 4'x 13' lighted box sign 15' up on a building which needs to be moved to a new location which is about 21 feet high. I figured it would weigh 100-150 lbs. which is manageable, but when I stripped it down it's made from 2" square steel tubing and lots of angle iron. I figure this thing is pushing 500 lbs. Anybody got any thoughts? I don't think a bucket truck will take this kind of weight. Thanks for the help.
posted
Hiya Dusty and welcome aboard. I feel that Sheila has the right idea, either get a bigger truck or hire someone else. If you have the staff, good ladders and the nerve, it can be done, if you're very careful and take your time. Personally, I would pass on the job or farm it out. But, if I had to do it, I would use 3 experienced helpers and I would need 4 good, long ladders capable of supporting 300+ pounds each. I would place one ladder on each end and the other 2 towards the middle of the sign, supporting the bottom. I would disconnect the electric and with everyone up on the ladders, unbolt the sign from the wall. Then, carefully slide/carry the sign down. For the installation, just reverse the process. If you have a couple of extra ladders and the space, you can use the extra ladders to prop the sign against the wall untill you get it mounted. Just thinking about he installation is giving me butterflies in my stomach. 21 feet in the air on extension ladders holding a 500 lb. sign, hmmm, I must be getting old.
Havin' fun,
Checkers
-------------------- a.k.a. Brian Born www.CheckersCustom.com Harrisburg, Pa Work Smart, Play Hard Posts: 3775 | From: Harrisburg, Pa. U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 1998
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Checkers, are you trying to get a letterhead killed, or just trying to give an O.S.H.A. inspector a coronary? Get a crane to take it down or don't do it. If that thing gets loose and starts down, there won't be any stopping it.
-------------------- Frisby Signs, Inc. El Dorado, Arkansas Posts: 902 | From: El Dorado, Arkansas, USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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I would definately go with Mr Frisby's advice however if cost is a major concern at the very least rig up some sort of "block and tackle" on the roof with good heavy duty rope or chain to secure that sign if you guys are on ladders at that heighth and the sign gets away from you someone is going to get hurt or worse....it just isn't worth it, FOR ANY AMOUNT OF MONEY
-------------------- Dan Streicher Slidell, LA Posts: 445 | From: Slidell, LA | Registered: Feb 2004
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A boom truck will probable cost you a hundred bucks an hour, so figure an easy 3 hours for removal and install.
I would, because I'm lazy rent a self propelled cherry picker as well, so you can unfasten and refasten the sign quickly. probably another 150 bucks for 3 hours rental. Dale
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Thanks y'all for the input. The ladder idea is a little too risky for me. I'm already too committed to not take the job. It was only after I took the sign face off that I realized the massiveness of the sign. I'm going to tell her if there is ever a tornado to head for her sign. She wasn't there when the sign was installed, so she can't offer any insight as to how it went up. I'm checking into a crane and I'm also looking at a rough terrain forklift which has the height and lifting capacity needed. I'll let everyone know how it works out. Thanks for all the help. I hope to meet you all at a meet. Dusty
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Oh come on Roy, where's you sense of adventure Seriously, I would never suggest attempting this if I didn't know if it would work. I've installed many signs using this method without having problems. Also, if you notice, I did first suggest to follow Sheila's advice. From there, it's up to Dusty to use common sense and decide on what method would work for him.
Havin' fun,
Checkers
-------------------- a.k.a. Brian Born www.CheckersCustom.com Harrisburg, Pa Work Smart, Play Hard Posts: 3775 | From: Harrisburg, Pa. U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 1998
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LOL @ Si. One time I was up a ladder painting the second story of our house when a persistant wasp decided he didn't like me near him. Since I suspect from other experiences that I am allergic to bee sting, as he came in for his attack, I let go of the paint can and proceeded to desend the latter at an accelerated pace. My wife swears I beat the paint can to the ground. I didn't have a hammer.
I looked at Checkers post and thought, 4 guys, 500 pound sign! That's 125 pounds per person going up 21 feet. I lift 100 lb. sacks of sand into my sand blaster. There is no way I'm going to carry 125 lbs of sign up a ladder. And if one guy starts to lose it, the whole group would come down.
I'm definatly in favor of some heavy lifting equipment here. Your forklift idea might be pretty good if it can level the sign. A man lift could work too if the cage is big enough for 2 guys and the sign with a 1000 lb capacity, otherwise a crane is the only way.
-------------------- Dave Sherby "Sandman" SherWood Sign & Graphic Design Crystal Falls, MI 49920 906-875-6201 sherwoodsign@sbcglobal.net Posts: 5396 | From: Crystal Falls, MI USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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"If cost is a concern..." You're kidding, right? If cost is a concern, the client doesn't really want that heavy sumbich moved to begin with.
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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...I'm assuming you have no contractors license. There are a few other issues here, if the sign was built for the building, the building may have been engineered to hold that weight, maybe not... I would inspect the new location to see if it's built the same way, I also would see if a permit is required (it most likely is) and what is required of you too pull the permit. If you don't meet the criteria, sub it out and have a competent erector too inspect/engineer the new sign location and do all the remove install work.
-------------------- Rick Chavez Hemet, CA Posts: 1538 | From: Hemet,CA U.S.A. | Registered: Jun 2001
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21 feet in the air. Is the ground Level. If it use a Mobil Platform and put forks on it to lift the sign and hold it as you lower it. We do this all the time and works Great and you dont have the sign swaying like on a crane but if not level ground Boom Truck and Guide lines.. Nothing is worth getting hurt over.
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You have some good advice here. and some valuable lessons learned before you give a bid on a job without all the through research. Ladders and more guys I have done that, once even set up scaffold mounted on a truck rack, two tires on the sidewalk the other two on 4"x6"s one guy on the roof, with ropes, it worked, but I would never do that again, to risky and not worth it. The permits was a good thing brought up, another is connecting the wiring to the sign. If you're not a licensed or certified electrican, I wouldn't connect the wires, even though it's only two wires. You have no idea where the existing (if any) go to. So you need to resharpen your pencil add in a cost and hire a electrican, lot more envolved then you thought huh. Hey we all learn from experiences. The good thing is you have a good spot to learn from others who have made some mistakes or how to make it easier...
-------------------- aka:Cisco the "Traveling Millennium Sign Artist" http://www.franciscovargas.com Fresno, CA 93703 559 252-0935 "to live life, is to love life, a sign of no life, is a sign of no love"...Cisco 12'98 Posts: 3576 | From: Fresno, Ca, the great USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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There are definitely alot of bases to cover here. I'm on top of everything mentioned here(permit, electricals, engineering aspects), and I've done installs of box signs on ladders(thanks Brian), with scaffolding, and with a bucket truck,(I always have my hammer Si(you also have to fire anyone else who is falling before they hit the ground for worker's comp reasons)) but I haven't done anything with this much weight. I guess I've been lucky. It's also made re-hanging it a bit harder than planned. Luckily there are vertical I beams inside the facade that I can use. I'm going to go with a boom truck. That seems like the safest way to go. And even though cost is a concern, life is more precious than money. (And I don't want Si to post a pic of me with my 2x4's holding this thing up as the next Darwin award candidate.) Thanks once again. Dusty
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Dusty........I think your brother Randy is probably correct here.......it would be cheaper to build a new aluminum box and install it than to move that massive beast. If the customer was so attached to that box, I would sub out the install to another sign company that was equipped to do the job and add on another 15-20% to the invoice.
-------------------- Mike"Spud"Kelly zipperhead design Westminster, MA Posts: 367 | From: Westminster, MA | Registered: Mar 2001
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Sounds like the kind of job I would take than when I got there to do it would regret taking, but being as how I was there I would find some way to get it done.
-------------------- Jake Lyman Lyman Signs 45 State Road Phillipston, MA 01331 Posts: 635 | From: Phillipston, MA | Registered: Sep 2002
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quote: I'm already too committed to not take the job.
Unless the customer is willing to cover the costs of renting a cherry picker, the additional labor for the installation and realises that your original quote was not based on the unforseen problems that have come up with this one, do not EVER take that mindset.
In all sincerity, if you are in over your head on a job and need additional materials or help, factor that into wether or not your "commitment" is realistic.
Like Jake, I found ways to get through jobs in the past, but those jobs usually ended up being unprofitable, time consuming and loaded with stress.
When life (or a sign job) throws you a curveball, adjust your swing, but realise you're not always going to hit a home run. This might be time take a few pitches (problems) and walk. Rapid
-------------------- Ray Rheaume Rapidfire Design 543 Brushwood Road North Haverhill, NH 03774 rapidfiredesign@hotmail.com 603-787-6803
I like my paint shaken, not stirred. Posts: 5648 | From: North Haverhill, New Hampshire | Registered: Apr 2003
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My installer would probably take it. I would guess that he would cut some holes in the top, drill and insert eyelets for the boom truck to attach to and/or would probably put straps around it.
But I'm with some of the rest. It would be better to build a new one and sell the old one.
-------------------- Laura Butler Vision Graphics & Sign 4479 Welch Rd Attica, Mi 48412 Posts: 2855 | From: Attica, Mi, USA | Registered: Nov 2000
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If anyone is reading this and considering that ladder idea, at least be smart enough to position the ladders above tha sign, and work around them. That way, when the sign gets away from you, all you gotta do is hang on to your ladder, and watch the damn thing fall, oh yeah, and hope it doesn't hit the bottom of your ladder.
-------------------- Don Hulsey Strokes by DON signs Utica, KY 270-275-9552 sbdsigns@aol.com
I've always been crazy... but it's kept me from going insane. Posts: 2274 | From: Utica, KY U.S.A. | Registered: Jan 1999
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While I love people and have much faith in the human brain & brawn, I have found that the more people you have on a job, the more varied and unique ways thing can get screwed-up and just "happen"...
Murhpy's law times four. . . .
Checkers, LOL . . .you like to live on the edge, I can tell
. . .it would NEVER have occured to me to attempt this off'a ladder, much less 4 of 'em. I am impressed, and shaken that you pulled it off, LOL
PS Dusty, don't feel bad about being "committed" too soon too early, you have given us all another reminder to not quote the customer ANYTHING until ya erase all (or most of) the surprises . . .
-------------------- Signs Sweet Home Alabama
oneshot on chat
"Look like a girl, act like a lady, think like a man, work like a dog" Posts: 5758 | From: "Sweet Home" Alabama | Registered: Mar 2003
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Ya know, I never cease to be amazed at the ingenuity of sign people. If there is a way to do something, a good sign person can sure figure out how.
-------------------- Frisby Signs, Inc. El Dorado, Arkansas Posts: 902 | From: El Dorado, Arkansas, USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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if you are going to use a ladder get a block and tackle and hook to a strong ladder above the center of the sign use a seperate ladder to unbolt sign and another person to let the sign down. i hope that i made myself clear if not call me.
-------------------- Jimmy Chatham Chatham Signs 468 stark st Commerce, Ga 30529 Posts: 1766 | From: Commerce, GA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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