posted
My brother recently bought a restored 1965 32' Trojan boat and has asked me to remove the old name and replace it with a new one. The hull is mahogany and the lettering is buried under varnish. I have yet to see it, but he believes that the old lettering is vinyl. What is the proper way to remove this lettering, prepare the hull for new lettering(paint and gold leaf), and should I varnish over the paint/gold? Thanks in advance............
BTW.....this boat is in salt water.
[ May 19, 2004, 08:03 AM: Message edited by: Mike Kelly ]
-------------------- Mike"Spud"Kelly zipperhead design Westminster, MA Posts: 367 | From: Westminster, MA | Registered: Mar 2001
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Mike..If the name is on the transom, and if it is buried in coats of varnish, I would remove the varnish with regular old paint stripper. Of course being sure to mask off the edges of the transom extra well.
Once I had all the varnish off down to the lettering I'd remove it, was transom with water thoroughly. Let dry overnight. Sand the remaining varnish till it is smooth and then revarnish the transom.
When the transom is back to looking good, then I'd do the new name.
As far as varnishing over the gold, there are many here who know more about that than I do, but I think I would.
(above based on one varnished transom job and dozens of restored antique furniture jobs)
Good luck and have fun.
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
posted
Being a wooden boat nut, I have to agree with Dave , except I would take it down to the bare wood because any lettering, vynull or paint, will shadow in the varnish. Revarnish, at least six coats, more is better, and then do your lettering. Clear with Sikkens Cetol TGL clear. This is not a short and easy job...(no sh!t, Mur) but very satifying. MUR
-------------------- Murray MacDonald OldTime Signs 529 Third Ave S Kenora, ON. P9N 1Y3 oldtimesigns@gokenora.com Posts: 781 | From: Kenora, ON | Registered: Jan 2003
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No easy job for sure. I just did a similar one last week. Four teak name boards for a boat. It had a gazillion coats of varnish w/ outlined sign gold lettering underneath. I sanded it down to the bare wood. No easy task, .... wear a mask! It took alot of sanding before the ghost of the previous lettering was gone.
I then used one coat of marine spar varnish before relettering with the new name. Then 8 ... yes that's right, EIGHT more coats over that. Must light sand between coats. I used Interlux Goldspar clear (high gloss) and applied it with a badger hair brush.
They looked pristine when they left here, and I know they will hold up. I had a happy customer.
posted
YIKES!!! and it is the brother deal....I've done many of these as I am a boat nut as well, and these guys have you on the right track, this is a tough one, there are some chemical products out there for removing varnish and they only reason I am mentioning them is to save you the trouble of using them as I can see you guying to the hardware store to get a scaper and sandpaper (the right way to do this) and reading one of these ugly little cans and thinking you have stumbled onto your dream answer and that is just a messy stinky way to still get stuck scraping and cleaning and have a nosey harbormaster over your shoulder....do it right, come out with a great picture for your portfolio, and a happy brother that will owe you hours of boating and beer drinking.....You do know the best type of boat don't you? Someone elses
-------------------- Dan Streicher Slidell, LA Posts: 445 | From: Slidell, LA | Registered: Feb 2004
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According to legend, each and every vessel is recorded by name in the Ledger of the Deep and is known personally to Poseidon, or Neptune, the god of the sea. It is logical therefore, if we wish to change the name of our boat, the first thing we must do is to purge its name from the Ledger of the Deep and from Poseidon’s memory. This is an involved process beginning with the removal or obliteration of every trace of the boat’s current identity. This is essential and must be done thoroughly. I once went through the ceremony after the owner had assured me that every reference to his boat’s old name had been purged from her. A couple of weeks later, he discovered he had missed a faded name on her floating key chain. I advised him to start over, perhaps with a little extra libation for the ruler of the sea. Unfortunately, he declined. Since then, his boat has been struck by lightning, had its engine ruined by the ingress of the sea, been damaged by collision and finally sunk! It pays to be thorough.
In purging your boat, it is acceptable to use White-Out or some similar obliterating fluid to expunge the boat’s name from log books, engine and maintenance records etc., but it is much easier to simply remove the offending document from the boat and start afresh. Don’t forget the life rings and especially the transom and forward name boards. Do not under any circumstances carry aboard any item bearing your boat’s new name until the purging and renaming ceremonies have been completed! Once you are certain every reference to her old name has been removed from her, all that is left to do is to prepare a metal tag with the old name written on it in water-soluble ink. You will also need a bottle of reasonably good Champagne. Plain old sparkling wine won’t cut it.
Since this is an auspicious occasion, it is a good time to invite your friends to witness and to party.
Begin by invoking the name of the ruler of the deep as follows:
Oh mighty and great ruler of the seas and oceans, to whom all ships and we who venture upon your vast domain are required to pay homage, implore you in your graciousness to expunge for all time from your records and recollection the name (here insert the old name of your vessel) which has ceased to be an entity in your kingdom. As proof thereof, we submit this ingot bearing her name to be corrupted through your powers and forever be purged from the sea. (At this point, the prepared metal tag is dropped from the bow of the boat into the sea.)
In grateful acknowledgment of your munificence and dispensation, we offer these libations to your majesty and your court. (Pour at least half of the bottle of Champagne into the sea from East to West. The remainder may be passed among your guests.)
It is usual for the renaming ceremony to be conducted immediately following the purging ceremony, although it may be done at any time after the purging ceremony. For this portion of the proceedings, you will need more Champagne, Much more because you have a few more gods to appease.
Begin the renaming by again calling Poseidon as follows:
Oh mighty and great ruler of the seas and oceans, to whom all ships and we who venture upon your vast domain are required to pay homage, implore you in your graciousness to take unto your records and recollection this worthy vessel hereafter and for all time known as (Here insert the new name you have chosen), guarding her with your mighty arm and trident and ensuring her of safe and rapid passage throughout her journeys within your realm.
In appreciation of your munificence, dispensation and in honor of your greatness, we offer these libations to your majesty and your court. (At this point, one bottle of Champagne, less one glass for the master and one glass for the mate are poured into the sea from West to East.)
The next step in the renaming ceremony is to appease the gods of the winds. This will assure you of fair winds and smooth seas. Because the four winds are brothers, it is permissible to invoke them all at the same time, however, during the ceremony; you must address each by name.
Begin in this manner:
Oh mighty rulers of the winds, through whose power our frail vessels traverse the wild and faceless deep, we implore you to grant this worthy vessel (Insert your boat’s new name) the benefits and pleasures of your bounty, ensuring us of your gentle ministration according to our needs.
(Facing north, pour a generous libation of Champagne into a Champagne flute and fling to the North as you intone Great Boreas, exalted ruler of the North Wind, grant us permission to use your mighty powers in the pursuit of our lawful endeavors, ever sparing us the overwhelming scourge of your frigid breath.
(Facing west, pour the same amount of Champagne and fling to the West while intoning Great Zephyrus, exalted ruler of the West Wind, grant us permission to use your mighty powers in the pursuit of our lawful endeavors, ever sparing us the overwhelming scourge of your wild breath.
(Facing east, repeat and fling to the East.) Great Eurus, exalted ruler of the East Wind, grant us permission to use your mighty powers in the pursuit of our lawful endeavors, ever sparing us the overwhelming scourge of your mighty breath.
(Facing south, repeat, flinging to the South.) Great Notus, exalted ruler of the South Wind, grant us permission to use your mighty powers in the pursuit of our lawful endeavors, ever sparing us the overwhelming scourge of your scalding breath.
Of course, any champagne remaining will be the beginnings of a suitable celebration in honor of the occasion.
Once the ceremony has been completed, you may bring aboard any and all items bearing the new name of your vessel. If you must schedule the painting of the new name on the transom before the ceremony, be sure the name is not revealed before the ceremony is finished. It may be covered with bunting or some other suitable material.
Good luck!
-------------------- Jay Nichols ALPHABET SOUP
~the large print giveth and the small print taketh away~ Posts: 176 | From: SW Florida | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
Hay Spud... long time no see! Heres my 2 cents Id sand the transom to bare wood...rip the varnish of any way you can...then fair the wood back with a long sanding block. I dont like to see chemical removal on wood boats because the stripper can seep into the joints and rear up under the new finish Finish the wood with about 200 grit. Begin the refinishing with thinned varnish. I like to add 50% thinner for the first few coats.. then work down to a less reduced application sand between coats...with 320 use a tack rag after each sanding when you get 8-10 coats on...final sand with 400.. apply the size,gild,outline and any other decorations....wait a day... then pencil varnish the gold(apply varnish on gold only). wait another day...top coat the entire transom with 1-2 more coats... I like HMG varnish...they have a fast build that will allow you 2 coats in one day..they make a full line of marine finishes including new 2 part systems,regular varnish, primers, antifoul, and waterborne coatings Epifanes and Stoppani are also good choices for finish. the varnish is best applied with a good badger hair brush..I like Redtree brushes...and Epifanes has some really nice oval and round brushes. Call me if you need some suppliers...
posted
Neat story Jay. Spud, did you mention the new name? (too lazy to check back!) PLEASE don't tell me it's "Wet Dreams"! How many of us have painted or vynulled THAT name on a boat? Sorry I can't help you with tips, tricks, etc. Love...Jill
-------------------- That is like a Mr. Potato Head with all the pieces in the wrong place. -Russ McMullin Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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Along Jill's boat naming theme... Some of our favorites names that Bill lettered on a boat were "Empty Pockets" and "Sea Nile". "Sea Nile" as the couple explained to us, was in honor of this retired couple's children who thought they were senile for buying a boat!
-------------------- Jane Diaz Diaz Sign Art 628 W. Lincoln Ave. Pontiac, Il. 61764 815-844-7024 www.diazsignart.com Posts: 4102 | From: Pontiac, IL USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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I letter many boats and I don't remove names. The owner or the local boat shops remove and refinish transoms. Did anyone mention a name board, cut to shape letterd and applied over old name. This requires additional chants and incantations as well as two Bolivian Ground Frogs, both colors of course. Good luck John
-------------------- John and Diana Grenier Up North Studio Les Cheneaux Islands Art Gallery P.O. Box 83 Hessel, MI 49745 906-322-2886 www.lescheneauxislandsartgallery.com Posts: 50 | From: Hessel, MI (Eastern U.P.) | Registered: Apr 2003
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Nautical Lore as I have heard it in regards to SailBoats is that you are to put a gold coin under the mast when you change the name of a sailboat....but what is the name Power Boaters I mean Stink Potters have for us, Rag Boats or something to that effect....
-------------------- Dan Streicher Slidell, LA Posts: 445 | From: Slidell, LA | Registered: Feb 2004
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John......he had asked about a name board, mentioning that he had a pair of Bolivian ground frogs. When he showed up at the shop, I saw that he had a pair, although the same color. He claimed that it would be fine because this is Massachusetts. So I picked up a 4' quarterboard that was leaning against the wall and whacked him across the side of the head (Poseidon made me do it!). Only then did he understand that the old name had to be removed.
Jill......the new name will be... Scally Cap out of Dorchester, MA
-------------------- Mike"Spud"Kelly zipperhead design Westminster, MA Posts: 367 | From: Westminster, MA | Registered: Mar 2001
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Mike; A quick fix to consider might be to paint the entire transom dark blue, black or whatever the interior color might be to relate and reflect continuity.First block sand the entire transom to achieve a smooth reflective surface which should eliminate any raised pre existing lettering, then spray your selected two part pigmented color. By painting the transom with a pigmented color eliminates the posibility of sahdows from the prexisting name in the Mahogany. Plan B might just follow Michael Boons procedure. Getting a super good finish on a verticle surface is not for the untemperd aspirant, however, not to say that one cannot achieve a superior finish by ignoring temperature, humidity, and associated wind storms if done outdoors.I have had good results with foam brushes if the finnish coat is also thinned. Good luck with whatever choice you and yours select,and reflecting back on Poesiden, there is little difference between supersticion and rumor, also truth is what one believes it to be.
J.G. Kurtzman kurtzmansigns.com
-------------------- John Kurtzman J.G. Kurtzman Sign Shop 97 Taylor Ave. Norwalk, Ct. 06854
----------------------------------- Creative communication since 1959 Posts: 213 | From: So. Norwalk, Ct. USA | Registered: Sep 2000
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I lived in an area where there are literally thousands of boats. Some of you saw the sail boats piled up ahsore after the storm. I can guarante you that almost all of them had the original name.. or the name was changed to add NameII ( II added to the end).
But a few were not done right. I know of at leat 4 that I did that they did not do the name change right... Well, look what happened. The storm of biblical proportions came and grounded a load of boats. And there were many more that I don't know about. Can you imagine a boat costing near to 7 figures with an engine room so clean you could live in it but the owner cheaped out on the renaming? sheeesh.. I luv boat lore..
-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5274 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
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I am with John....the owner has the job of having the transom refinished and ready for lettering! He can do it himself, or have the boatyard do it.
Gild it, a quick coat of quick rubbing varnish, then outline and shade. Next day bury it in 3 or 4 coats of varnish.
PS....one summer when I worked in a boatyard, 2 power boats were renamed...one burnd to the waterline, the other hit something and sank!
-------------------- Si Allen #562 La Mirada, CA. USA
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Brushasaurus on Chat Posts: 8827 | From: La Mirada, CA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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quote:Originally posted by Santo: I love those Badger hairbrushes.
Where can I pick one up? ...I have to have one!
-------------------- Al Checca Kidney dialysis Pt. wizard42171967@yahoo.com Posts: 261 | From: Latrobe just outside Pittsburgh Pa in Latrobe | Registered: Aug 2001
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