posted
DO you finish paint your background, then mask off the sign, then carve through the mask & gild(guild ) over the mask also & then remove the mask.
OR
Do you prefer to carve with out a masked sign (no Zorro jokes please) and use a potatoe or eggwhite solution to "protect" your background for easy cleanup.
-------------------- Phil Steffen, 29 Van Rensselaer St City of Saratoga Springs DPW Saratoga Springs NY 12866 Posts: 563 | From: beautiful Saratoga Springs NY | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
Philip, I carve the sign first, then I prime and paint everything. After the sign is "finished", I gild it. I use a pounce bag with talcum powder and tap it lightly around the letters. Now I gild. After gilding, I clean off the powder and outline the letters. Have done it this way for years! I do not like to do the paint, mask, gild thing because after you apply the mask, prime the letter, paint the letter, then gild it, when you remove the mask, you have a noticeable "lip" around the letter. This is a place for trouble to develope in time...............my opinion, it is a much cleaner looking sign to do it the "hard" way.
-------------------- Tony Vickio The World Famous Vickio Signs 3364 Rt.329 Watkins Glen, NY 14891 t30v@vickiosigns.com 607-535-6241 http://www.vickiosigns.com Posts: 1063 | From: Watkins Glen, New York | Registered: Sep 2001
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-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I did it the same way as Joe. Less clean up after the gold has been laid and outlines are done. Knock on wood, never had a problem with the lip that Cam described.
Havin' fun,
Checkers
-------------------- a.k.a. Brian Born www.CheckersCustom.com Harrisburg, Pa Work Smart, Play Hard Posts: 3775 | From: Harrisburg, Pa. U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 1998
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What Joe said.....but sand the mask before you remove it to get rid of the lip.
-------------------- Ed CJ Williams CJ Graffx Christiana,Pa. cjgraffx@comcast.net Just have'n fun.... Posts: 296 | From: Christiana,Pa. | Registered: May 1999
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posted
I prefer the look and feel of signs that are carved first, in the raw, then primed and finished. But we never do them that way.
My business partner and sole helper does all the letter carving at our shop. He is neither inclined, nor qualified to lay finish or size on an unmasked letter, and it's a job I find boring, and uncomfortable. It hurts my back, and I can't see that well.
Using mask takes it from a task that requires a lot of concentration on my part (and pressure since I'm the only one who can do it), to a routine job that either of us can knock out fast and predictably.
SONGPAINTER Original Sign Music by Sign People NOW AVAILABLE on CD and the proceeds go to Letterville's favorite charity! Click Here for Sound Clips! Posts: 1974 | From: Orleans, MA, Cape Cod, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I do it the same way as Cam & Tony state above.
I also enjoy the time spent with brush when I can.
It just doesn't make sence to me to cut open a sign that is already sealed with primer and paint, just to prime and paint it again.
Has anybody ever calcualted the time saved by using a mask against the time wasted priming and painting the letters agian, not to mention the mask material, and the additional foam brushes/ whatever you use to paint the letters?
And in the end there is always the risk of moisture entering under the "lip"
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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I never calculated it on either end, Maybe you could do a demo at mass meyhem on both methods and time to do both for a class.
Personally the thought of wrapping something in one complete layer with no seams, appeals so much better than patching in areas. but hey I might even do my own time test.
so what do you think are you up for the challenge? I'd step up to the plate but Im not an accomplished carver like yourself.
[ April 18, 2004, 11:05 PM: Message edited by: Bob Rochon ]
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I think its a matter of personal preference. I don't care for carving through a mask and painted surface; I've tried it a few times, and not been all that thrilled with the results. What I do like is to prime my surface, then cut and lay a mask, spray-paint with black and pull the mask. Now I have a perfect image to carve, without having to pounce a pattern and follow it up with a pencil on the panel. When the carving is done the whole sign is primed again - I've never seen too much primer on HDU - then painted. When the painting is complete we size with egg white, size and gild. Sizing carved letters is not lettering; it has to be done with some care, but it's not hard - my employee does it regularly, and he doesn't letter. As to which way is faster, better, or more efficient, that's a matter of opinion. It hasn't ever been a subject I've got excited enough to argue about.
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I'm not sure what I said that got you upset but whatever it was, I apoligize. I have deleted my post in case others feel the same way. I'm not here to compete with anyone and I'm sorry you have that impression.
Like last year, I will have a panel or two that I have pre-finished at Mayhem. I'll carve em there, prime and gild them.
I know of no failures using the mask and carve method and for ME it takes advantage of My strengths and minimizes My weakness and the customer is happy and I get paid. If I'm not mistaken the question on this thread is "what do you do" not "which method is best". I guess I should have just quit after my first post.
Next time I'm making 2 identical signs, I'll do each using the different methods and I'll post my score.
Once again, I'm sorry that what I said made you upset or felt challenged.
Joe
-------------------- Joe Cieslowski Connecticut Woodcarvers Gallery P.O.Box 368 East Canaan CT 06024 jcieslowski@snet.net 860-824-0883 Posts: 2345 | From: East Canaan CT 06024 | Registered: Nov 2001
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Regardless of your preference, I can think of at least one job I've done in the past where I would have been lost without pre-finishing and carving THROUGH a mask:
There were 36 of these puppys and even the tiny copy in the lower circle logos were V-carved. Come to think of it, I would have been lost without automated CNC machines too - fodder for another thread.
SONGPAINTER Original Sign Music by Sign People NOW AVAILABLE on CD and the proceeds go to Letterville's favorite charity! Click Here for Sound Clips! Posts: 1974 | From: Orleans, MA, Cape Cod, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I see my reply might be taken in the context that I was upset, but in actuallity I wasn't I was serious. Again I thought it would be a good thing to try at a meet, and truthfully I carve but I am not an affluent carver as your self so I would not take up the task.
I didnt see any reason to delete your post Joe.
I have never done the mask method so I do not know the advantages. Again just the thought of the method doesnt make sense to me but that doesnt make it right or wrong.
can you carve through the mask? and does it cut clean? I have a few mahogany drops I might just test a letter and try it both ways.
[ April 18, 2004, 09:30 PM: Message edited by: Bob Rochon ]
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I started out without maskings, and worked my skills up over time to some real presentable works. I then started looking for some faster ways of doing it. Joe Rees took the time to explain his method in detail, so I gave it a try. It ends up with the primers "married" well at the cut line. The background paint is seperated from the gild's backpainting. When you burnish all together there is no visable line of demarkation except color. I have found enamels failing much faster than primers, so I'm guessing that no enamel under the gild could actually increase it's lifespan, and the enamel would eventually have to be repainted anyway, creating the same division. Since using this system I have saved a lot of time, and my gilds are much nicer. I have had zero failures and have been watching them closely. I really like his method, and will continue to use it until it prooves wrong. Thanks Joe.
-------------------- "Don't change horses in midstream, unless you spot one with longer legs" bronzeo oti Jack Davis 1410 Main St Joplin, MO 64801 www.imagemakerart.com jack@imagemakerart.com Posts: 1549 | From: Joplin, MO | Registered: Mar 2000
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![[Smile]](smile.gif)
) over the mask also & then remove the mask.
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