posted
to get away from the Flintstones thread........ does anyone think that there is a difference between painting or cutting a likeness of Taz (without "permission" from Warner Bros.) and putting it on a tow truck and getting paid for it *and* a local band playing a Pink Floyd song (without "permission" from Roger Waters) at a party and getting paid for it? Is one ok and not the other? We're not talking distributing multiples of decals or t-shirts or designing a logo with copyrighted artwork or recording the song for distribution. Stinky's Towing Co. wants Taz on the back of their towtruck. Does anyone think that Warner Bros. really gives a flyin' f*ck whether it is on there or not? Do you think Roger cares that some obscure band is playing his tune without throwing him a few bucks? What say you?
-------------------- Mike"Spud"Kelly zipperhead design Westminster, MA Posts: 367 | From: Westminster, MA | Registered: Mar 2001
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Hiya Mike, I'm glad you started a new thread because I didn't want to get involved with the other. OP knows better. Anyway, using Taz or any other copyrighted artwork to promote, draw attention to, or any other reason than the indended use of the design can imply an endorsement of the product being promoted. How would you like your picture on a sign promoting the local strip club? Especially if they used it without your permission? As for music, and I may be off base on this, but, I think you can buy sheet music from from a music store for the purpose or playing it. By purchasing the sheet music for a particular band, you're compensating the band for their time and efforts in making the song. Again, I may be off base. Hopefully, some of the musicians will chime in.
Havin' fun,
Checkers
-------------------- a.k.a. Brian Born www.CheckersCustom.com Harrisburg, Pa Work Smart, Play Hard Posts: 3775 | From: Harrisburg, Pa. U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 1998
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We have had this debate with musician friends. Most musicians we know don't buy the sheet music of most songs. They just listen & play and listen & play till they figure out the song. Our son calls them cover songs. His band plays their own original tunes, but they also do play some "covers" too. It is something all garage bands do I think. That's how you learn. As for the moral issue....good question. I agree, it doesn't sound any different to me. I think the way you might get into trouble would be if you RECORDED another band music and sold it on your CD without compensation. Especially if you made it big and became a hit, therefore lots of $ and the first band was not getting their cut. It is an interesting issue to debate. It will be interesting to see what others think.
-------------------- Jane Diaz Diaz Sign Art 628 W. Lincoln Ave. Pontiac, Il. 61764 815-844-7024 www.diazsignart.com Posts: 4102 | From: Pontiac, IL USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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posted
Actually, Roger Waters is a member of the American Society of Composers, Authors and Publishers, which has has a habit of suing the owners of bars that allow cover bands to play in them and the bands themselves.
Just thought of that because there was a band while I was in college that got sued by them on behalf of Billy Joel. They were all excited about it, hoping to get to meet him in court (like Billy joel was gonna go to court in a hick town in North Alabama). All they got was a judge reading them a cease and desist order.
Edit* and no, I'm not picking sides, just sharing trivia.
[ March 29, 2004, 06:08 PM: Message edited by: Patrick Whatley ]
-------------------- Pat Whatley Montgomery, AL (334) 262-7446 office (334) 324-8465 cell Posts: 1306 | From: Wetumpka, AL USA | Registered: Mar 2001
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All depends on who is the biggest a-hole with the best lawyers ... based on who's making what kind of money. First thing that came came to my mind was a Verve song where they had permission to use a 4 bar sample of a Stones tune in the background of a 50 bar song ... song went big, lawyers got involved, Stones get ALL royalties from the single. I don't think they would go after a bar band for a percentage of the free beer.
posted
Mike, this may help or not. Let me word this carefully...our fire station has a mascot logo on the fire trucks. Now our mascot was a creation of a local artist who offered to do the work for free but he bears a strange liking to the tazmanian devil. Our little buddy is named Taz, he holds a fire hose in one hand and the jaws of life in the other. Must be the tazmanian devils long lost nephew, cousin, uncle......that never made it to the big time. Who knows, Never had any complaints and the kids get a kick out of it.
Jeff (withholding fire stations name)
-------------------- Jeff Umsted Posts: 35 | From: home. Lapeer, Mi. | Registered: Mar 2004
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I do know of a Fire Department in NJ that actually did contact WB for the rights to use Taz on their new ladder truck. Lets just say. they had little or NO trouble getting approval to use it. The only request WB had was that they send a photo of the completed work to them for final approval, basically if it didnt meet their requirements and I'm guessing, "moral standards" they would have made the fire department remove it from their truck. The TAZ is still on the side of the truck 6 years later.
I think most of you knwo that virtually every Fire and Rescue organization in the country has probably used a known cartoon character on something of theirs whether it be a T-shirt or a piece of apparatus. My own volunteer Fire Department has Marvin the Martian on all thier trucks with no permission whatsoever.(we cover Grovers Mill where the Martians landed in "War of the Worlds") Nobody has ever said anything. My thought has always been, will they bother an organization of that sort??? They have cartoon characters on FDNY trucks too.
Is this right??? Who knows??? The only person who made money on the cartoon character was the guy who painted it on there, I dont see that as a major infringement of copyright laws, what I do see is misuses of someone else's property. They're not using it to make money and neither is a tow truck operator.
Now on a T-shirt where your selling multiple copies of Taz holding a tow chain or a fire hose, I feel there is a copyright issue because now your intending to make money from that picture by selling it. Your not just using it as a visual display.
I would love to hear from a lawyer for someone like WB or Disney to see how they interpret things.
-------------------- Harris Kohen K-Man Pinstriping and Graphix Trenton, NJ "Showing the world that even I can strategically place the pigment where its got to go." Posts: 1739 | From: Trenton, NJ, USA | Registered: Jun 2001
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You probably don't want to hear from me on this...but Checkers has it nailed in my opinion...and Jane has a good point too....I think what would mainly upset Disney or a musician is if you:
1.) Used their property for profit 2.) Used their property for free but in a very distastful way.
Even though technically you can't use their stuff in any way without their permission...I doubt that they are going to get mad if you used their art for a freebie on the back of your car or if you learned to play their song as a learning excercise or to impress your friends.
Hey, I've said it repeatedly...I am guilty of this at times...and absolutely have no justification for doing it. I know I shouldn't....just like a few illegitimate software titles I have....it's me ripping off someone else...and I can't offer any good excuse except for greed. It's a bad thing. I make no claims to perfection...and I need to change the way I treat this subject.
My point in the other thread was the irony of some of the justifications that people were putting out there. I say, just call it like it is without trying to cover up the crime.
Have a good one everybody...
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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Another thought about this...we used to have fraternity shirts printed and more often than not they had a carton charecter on the back of them. Every t-shirt printer we would use always told us they could not create the artwork becuase of copyright laws but if we took camera-ready art then they were cleared, the problem was on us. Anybody got any clue abou that one?
-------------------- Pat Whatley Montgomery, AL (334) 262-7446 office (334) 324-8465 cell Posts: 1306 | From: Wetumpka, AL USA | Registered: Mar 2001
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Putting a SpongeBob on a race car trunk, Taz on a firetruck or Marvin the Martian on a Letterhead post is certainly not going to generate any problems from the owners of these licensed images.
Taking licensed images, or music, and mass producing, distributing or marketing them without permissions within the same specific market as the legal owners is when the trouble begins.
my 2 cents... Rapid
-------------------- Ray Rheaume Rapidfire Design 543 Brushwood Road North Haverhill, NH 03774 rapidfiredesign@hotmail.com 603-787-6803
I like my paint shaken, not stirred. Posts: 5648 | From: North Haverhill, New Hampshire | Registered: Apr 2003
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In Australia, places where songs are likely to be played publicly, (either from tapes, radio broadcast over a PA, or singers actually performing,) are obliged to pay a license fee of around $300 annually, which goes to a fund which 'aparrently' gets distributed to copyright holders. The venues are then free to broadcast live or recorded music without fear of legal problems.
-------------------- "Stewey" on chat
"...there are no limits when you aim for perfection..." Jonathan Livingston Seagull Posts: 7014 | From: Highgrove via Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia | Registered: Dec 2002
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Not being a musician, but knowing a few...my understanding is, here in Canada, if you are a professional musician you pay union dues. That covers your responsibility to play other musician's tunes in a live venue (bar,restaurant,Legion, etc.).
Can anyone verify that?
As far as reproducing copyright art...we all do it! Whether that is correct or not. And whether each of us wishes to admit it. I really don't care.
If ya do..fine. If ya don't ...fine. And discussing the ethics won't change a damn thing.
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
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